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Woody79_00
I run Linux am I still a PC?
Premium Member
join:2004-07-08
united state

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Woody79_00 to vaxvms

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to vaxvms

Re: Need to wear foil hats near parking meters

All i will say about this topic is this:

I am not saying Wi-Fi and Cell signals cause problems, but they "could be"

The fact is...until we get atleast 50 solid years of study on this subject (we get 50 years worth of Wifi Exposure to people within 20 feet of the transmitter) we will not now what the longterm effects are.

The same can be said about Wifi/Cell towers and bees...give me 50 years of behavior patterns of bees within 20 ft of a cell tower and then we can make some accurate claims one way or the other....this is not unreasonable....we should study and be cautious introducing new technology into the environment. This is especially true when it comes to these sorts of things because if we do something that destroys the ecosystem we as a race are as good as extinct. The consequence will be dire for everyone.

Again i was raised to never discredit someones claims until they have been investigated...we have no idea what long-term exposure to Wifi and the like will have on people....the technology hasn't been around long enough.

My grandpa told me about him painting with lead based paint, it was common back then, no one thought nothing of it. People who complained about lead based paint got ridiculed back in my grandpas time...come to find out later after longterm exposure that it does cause problems.

All i am saying is...don't pick a side on this topic until the research and facts have been presented...again until they show me 50 years of study on this topic everything else is useless...10 years even 20 years of study is not enough...it does not show longterm effects....WE should however begin pushing to see what the short terms effects are if any....especially on not only people but animals and other creatures as well. just my two cents.

kontos
xyzzy
join:2001-10-04
West Henrietta, NY

kontos

Member

said by Woody79_00:

The fact is...until we get atleast 50 solid years of study on this subject (we get 50 years worth of Wifi Exposure to people within 20 feet of the transmitter) we will not now what the longterm effects are.

So what you are saying is that in your world we should have just started to see new things like Color Television released to the general public in the past few years.
It will be nice when delivery of those signals via cable is determined to be safe. Maybe we can get DOCSIS 1 in 30-40 years too. I may still be alive then.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave to Woody79_00

Premium Member

to Woody79_00
In the lead case, I think it was known that lead was poisonous. The toxicity could be demonstrated. The problem came from underestimating the cumulative environmental effects. Nevertheless, everyone knew not to eat lead for lunch.

In the wi-fi frequency radiation case, I am pretty sure that detrimental effects have not been demonstrated. (Note the wording; it has to be that way, since you can't really show that something is ever 'safe'. If you run tests for 99 years, perhaps the bad effects only show up after 100 years, so you don't know it's absolutely safe).

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates

Premium Member

While I get your point, there are other sources of lead poisoning including folk medicines according to the CDC:
quote:
Lead has been found in some traditional (folk) medicines used by East Indian, Indian, Middle Eastern, West Asian, and Hispanic cultures. Traditional medicines can contain herbs, minerals, metals, or animal products. Lead and other heavy metals are put into certain folk medicines on purpose because these metals are thought to be useful in treating some ailments. Sometimes lead accidentally gets into the folk medicine during grinding, coloring, or other methods of preparation.

------------------------
Which folk medicines are known to contain lead
Lead has been found in powders and tablets given for arthritis, infertility, upset stomach, menstrual cramps, colic and other illnesses.
It goes on to list a bunch of the concoctions ...

I bring this up only because lead poisoning isn't a thing of the past, and it's still happening no matter what we know. And a lot of the victims are enlightened westerners who are intrigued by the latest offerings from their health food store. Including friends of mine, I'm sorry to say. A lot of aging hippies (and their kids) are into "more natural" folk medicine and treat themselves. So while they don't eat paint off the walls, they still expose themselves.

And those health food stores continue to sell the crap, which is legal because technically it's not medicine. Just as phone companies continue to sell cell phones etc. despite conflicting studies on side effects like brain cancer. Like Scarlet, they'll worry about that stuff tomorrow.

So I think Woody's point is well taken ... we really don't know. Not that I'd pay anyone billions over a parking meter, but neither would I be that sanguine about progress.

Woody79_00
I run Linux am I still a PC?
Premium Member
join:2004-07-08
united state

Woody79_00 to kontos

Premium Member

to kontos
said by kontos:

said by Woody79_00:

The fact is...until we get atleast 50 solid years of study on this subject (we get 50 years worth of Wifi Exposure to people within 20 feet of the transmitter) we will not now what the longterm effects are.

So what you are saying is that in your world we should have just started to see new things like Color Television released to the general public in the past few years.
It will be nice when delivery of those signals via cable is determined to be safe. Maybe we can get DOCSIS 1 in 30-40 years too. I may still be alive then.

No I am not saying that at all. You completely misunderstand what I mean.

I am not saying not to release it, I am saying that if after a few years of testing (Like a beta period where you trial something internally for a year or two among a small group) if the technology is good release it. However AFTER RELEASING IT studies and observations should be done to determine any long-term effects it may have(in this case wireless signals on environment)

nothing is going to be perfect, it never is. However, if we introduce something that we later find out is destroying the ecosystem or causing adverse medical effects then it should obviously be pulled if it is scientifically proven to have bad effects. Furthermore, this type of study can be used to bolster the positives of good technologies.

Lets just hypothetically say 10% of the earths population is sensitive to wifi signals and it does indeed make them sick and cause adverse medical problems. Is it fair to force those people to suffer with no recourse? that they can't even sit in their own living room and get away from it because their neighbor is broadcasting it? I am just saying....That would liken to people being allergic to nuts, and forcing them to eat nuts because the other 98% of the population is not allergic to nuts...again i am just saying.

Just so you know, the World Health Organization is studying what exactly is causing Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity in humans. It is not common, but the symptoms in people are real and have been medically documented. It could be that these signals are causing the symptoms of other conditions to become more apparent. they are not sure, as i said its being studied.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El ··· sitivity

Thats just hypothetical though mind you. I say for know keep deploying the technology and keep studying it and see where it leads.
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

But those studies have already been done.