dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
9279
share rss forum feed


agtle

@teksavvy.com
reply to Robotics

Re: Stihl power equipment and ethanol "enhanced" gas

said by Robotics:

...

I know of a pilot that used to buy gas at a local station out here for his small piper plane. Said it was cheaper than at the small airport out here.
Ended up the station had ethanol in their gas (and it wasn't posted), and in a short time of half a summer ruined his plane, gaskets, and other items that I cant remember what he called them.

...

The lack of TEL (lead) in the automotive gas would have been an issue too. Av gas is still leaded, and the engines are designed for that. Av gas is OK for lawn equipment, but I wouldn't put it in a modern auto engine designed for unleaded fuel.


Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA
kudos:3
reply to Jack_in_VA

I have ethonal 13 stations within 15 miles of my home, and 3 are within 2 miles.
About a year after I purchased my riding mower, it wouldn't start.
I tore off the carborator cover, and notice white gunk in it.
I used a little bit of Sea Foam to clean it up, filled up the tank with fresh gas with a few onces of Sea Foam and it started right up.
Now I just use the ethonal free gas with some Sta-Bil in it.
--
Getting it Done.


Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
reply to MrIcehouse

In response to MrIcehouse's comment about making Ethanol from sugarcane. I have viewed several documentaries about how Brazil became energy independent by supplementing petroleum with cane based ethanol. One of the things that our government does not mention, was described in the documentary is that cane based Ethanol has a higher energy content than corn based Ethanol. There is also Switch Grass which can be used to produce a higher energy Ethanol unfortunately US Agriculture has not converted to Switch Grass or Sugar Cane Ethanol production.

In response to Robotics comment, Aviation gasoline is anhydrous which means it contains no water. Water can freeze up in the fuel system cutting off fuel flow, stopping the engine and causing a crash. Gas pumps designed to pump aviation fuel have a final filter that contains a desiccant like silica gel to remove any residual water in the fuel.

Using leaded fuel in current automobiles will destroy the oxygen sensor and catalytic converter. Both are costly to replace.

Although the government claims that Gasoline with 10% Ethanol is safe to use in modern automobiles, when 10% Ethanol is used in late model automobiles that were not designed with fuel systems to accommodate Ethanol, the fuel system can still be slowly be damaged by corrosion of Aluminum parts and degradation of plastic parts.



Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA

Interesting read!

Thanks for posting this.


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·TekSavvy DSL

2 edits
reply to Jack_in_VA

I've been using E10 for 20 years in my four stroke engines. Cars (83, 86, 90, 96 and newer.), mowers and snow blower from the 70s. No problems.
In my 2 stokes I switched around y2k. Outboards from 66 and 88, weed whacker and snowmobiles from 90, Stihl chainsaw 08. Only one problem. The weed whacker primer bulb dried out and cracked after 10 years.
As a rule I don't use additives other than occasional sea foam or injector cleaner. I do like to drop the sled carb bowls every couple years, but that was always required maintenance even before eth.
Eth has been available at the pump for a couple decades now, so if a five year old product cannot handle eth, then it seems like a defect to me.



mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to Jack_in_VA

The bottom line like I've said for years is ethanol gas is bad for the economy, bad for gas millage and bad for engines.

Good for harpies.

The EPA should think about their charter.



Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
reply to Ken

said by Ken:

said by Critsmcgee:

There is no ethanol free gas in the entire state here. Ethanol is mandated to be in the gas by state law.

It's interesting to see how abundant non ethanol gas is in some areas, and other areas are completely devoid of it.
[att=1]

It may look like a lot on the map from the flag size alone, but if you changed the data to show little pinpoints in Red for 10% ethanol gas and little pinpoints in Blue for pure gas, it would be very negligible and hard to see the Blue for all the Red around them.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to Mr Matt

Ethanol from corn has exactly the same energy per gallon as ethanol from cane. Ethanol from switchgrass is the same energy per gallon as both of the others.
The energy used to grow corn and process corn into ethanol is greater than that to grow cane, so the net energy advantage goes to cane.

The fact is the auto and power equipment manufacturers have to make the equipment run on what fuel is available/mandated.



mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

said by PrntRhd:

Ethanol from corn has exactly the same energy per gallon as ethanol from cane. Ethanol from switchgrass is the same energy per gallon as both of the others.
The energy used to grow corn and process corn into ethanol is greater than that to grow cane, so the net energy advantage goes to cane.

The fact is the auto and power equipment manufacturers have to make the equipment run on what fuel is available/mandated.

I disagree a little with you.

I think we neeed to force the the EPA into publicly retract their love for ethanol,


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to Jack_in_VA

How many gallons of of imported oil is 10-12% lower gas milage per year in the us?

I can't figure it out. big billions



mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to Jack_in_VA

over the years. A trillion?



mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to Jack_in_VA

5 trillion?


PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits
reply to mityfowl

said by mityfowl:

said by PrntRhd:

Ethanol from corn has exactly the same energy per gallon as ethanol from cane. Ethanol from switchgrass is the same energy per gallon as both of the others.
The energy used to grow corn and process corn into ethanol is greater than that to grow cane, so the net energy advantage goes to cane.

The fact is the auto and power equipment manufacturers have to make the equipment run on what fuel is available/mandated.

I disagree a little with you.

I think we neeed to force the the EPA into publicly retract their love for ethanol,

You assume EPA government bureaucrats have a conscience or common sense.
EPA made rules that 49-state gasoline must contain oxygenates during certain months, this could be achieved by adding MTBE or Ethanol. Pick your poison...


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

reply to mityfowl

said by mityfowl:

The bottom line like I've said for years is ethanol gas is bad for the economy, bad for gas millage and bad for engines.

Good for harpies.

The EPA should think about their charter.

It's not as much as the politicians pandering to the corn farmers and the for votes and that in turn forces the EPA to take action

Good news for me. I rode by my quick stop yesterday and they have a sign saying that they now are selling "ETHANOL FREE GASOLINE".

Both my vehicles are full and the weed eater and blower are still in the shop. Generator is also full but I'm going to drain it out.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

said by scott2020:

I had no idea how difficult it is in some areas to get ethanol free gas. I have 5 or 6 stations that offer it within 6 miles of me. I live in a lake resort town, so I guess the demand for it is here due to all the boaters. Most is 93 octane. I haven't used anything but in any of my lawn equipment. Guess I'm lucky!

I don't think we can get ANY ethanol free gas here unless you buy Avgas which is leaded.

a water removal filter should get at least most of it out. ethanol is heavier than gasoline because it absorbs moisture, so it should settle to the bottom of the water removal filter.


mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI
reply to Jack_in_VA

Ethanol has been in gasoline in the US for a while now. And for quite a while now, many people like yourself with small engines have had trouble with it eating and dissolving rubber fuel lines and gaskets, and with is dislodging deposits in their engines. Your equipment is fairly new, so my question is, why hasn't Stihl accounted for this in their new designs?

Also, I'll 2nd that a marina is the easiest place to find ethanol free gasoline.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 edit

said by mix:

Ethanol has been in gasoline in the US for a while now. And for quite a while now, many people like yourself with small engines have had trouble with it eating and dissolving rubber fuel lines and gaskets, and with is dislodging deposits in their engines. Your equipment is fairly new, so my question is, why hasn't Stihl accounted for this in their new designs?

Also, I'll 2nd that a marina is the easiest place to find ethanol free gasoline.

I suspect Stihl and others have designed their equipment for the 10 percent ethanol. I suspect highly given several highly reported incidents in Hampton Roads way more ethanol is in the gas than the law allows. People with severely damaged vehicles can attest to that.

I can now get it 2 miles from here at the quick stop. I just have to burn up the ethanol garbage first


herdfan
Premium
join:2003-01-25
Hurricane, WV
reply to Jack_in_VA

There was/is a Stihl recall for certain gas caps. It seems the ethanol destroyed the rings and the caps would not seal. My dealer just asked me how many I needed and he gave them to me. You could tell how much better the new ones seated.

I buy nothing but ethanol free gas for all my small motors. There is a station about 10 miles from my house so I wait and take all of my and my parent's containers there at once and get them filled. I also only use 93 octane.

Stabil and others make an ethanol treatment and I would use it if I couldn't get ethanol free gas. And Lowes and HD sell quarts of ethanol free mixed gas, but I go though too much for this to be economical.



mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to Jack_in_VA

It takes a long time but the EPA and Congress is starting to get called out.


PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits

No, it is this years drought cutting back on projected corn supplies which means no surplus corn to make ethanol for gas without driving food supply costs up before an election.
Congress critters do understand they are in the line of fire if that occurs.

So much for upping the ethanol to 15% like some proposed.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by PrntRhd:

No, it is this years drought cutting back on projected corn supplies which means no surplus corn to make ethanol for gas without driving food supply costs up before an election.
Congress critters do understand they are in the line of fire if that occurs.

So much for upping the ethanol to 15% like some proposed.

So far the EPA (Obama administration) has refused to lower the mandate for 10 percent not wanting to anger the corn farmers who could care less about driving up the food prices. It benefits them and that's all they care about.


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by PrntRhd:

No, it is this years drought cutting back on projected corn supplies which means no surplus corn to make ethanol for gas without driving food supply costs up before an election.
Congress critters do understand they are in the line of fire if that occurs.

So much for upping the ethanol to 15% like some proposed.

So far the EPA (Obama administration) has refused to lower the mandate for 10 percent not wanting to anger the corn farmers who could care less about driving up the food prices. It benefits them and that's all they care about.

Its more complected now than this statement


toby
Troy Mcclure

join:2001-11-13
Seattle, WA
reply to Jack_in_VA

What mandate is there for any ethanol in gasoline? Or is this just a bash the president thing?

I buy ethanol free gasoline here in WA, better for the cars and garden equipment, hardly costs anything more than regular. Get a few more mpg too.



mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

said by toby:

What mandate is there for any ethanol in gasoline? Or is this just a bash the president thing?

I buy ethanol free gasoline here in WA, better for the cars and garden equipment, hardly costs anything more than regular. Get a few more mpg too.

Probably if you really want to know something about anything try google.

PrntRhd
Premium
join:2004-11-03
Fairfield, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

Actually the next layer of inertia on ethanol use is the Renewable Fuels Act.
»www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/···20120824
»www.rbnenergy.com/a-market-of-co···end-wall

So 30% of the country requires oxygenate fuel and then the RFA requires renewable fuel to boot.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to toby

said by toby:

What mandate is there for any ethanol in gasoline?

»www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/renewable···ndex.htm

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25

1 edit

said by fifty nine:

said by toby:

What mandate is there for any ethanol in gasoline?

»www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/renewable···ndex.htm

"•EISA increased the volume of renewable fuel required to be blended into transportation fuel from 9 billion gallons in 2008 to 36 billion gallons by 2022;" wow, there goes decently priced food!. there's a shortage of feedstock already, most of it is used to make ethanol!!. a large portion of our food is sold to other countries, they'll need to stop that.


mityfowl
Premium
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX
reply to Jack_in_VA

You can only wish that sanity will prevail in in Washington.



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to iknow

said by iknow:

said by fifty nine:

said by toby:

What mandate is there for any ethanol in gasoline?

»www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/renewable···ndex.htm

"•EISA increased the volume of renewable fuel required to be blended into transportation fuel from 9 billion gallons in 2008 to 36 billion gallons by 2022;" wow, there goes decently priced food!. there's a shortage of feedstock already, most of it is used to make ethanol!!. a large portion of our food is sold to other countries, they'll need to stop that.

Ethanol biofuel (and HFCS via tariffs on sugar) is nothing more than a handout to corporate corn farmers.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by fifty nine:

Ethanol biofuel (and HFCS via tariffs on sugar) is nothing more than a handout to corporate corn farmers.

That's is absolutely the reason with the added "buying of votes".