 DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
2 edits |
ANVEO Inbound CID-CNAM Report [PLEASE NOTE that the current thread also contains a significant branch regarding whether or not, and to what extent that CallCentric publishes a CID-CNAM listing for each of their subscribers' accounts into an LIDB somewhere (their FAQ currently does not say that they do), as my results in the next post unexpectedly included a discovery that ANVEO was able to lookup/receive CNAM info from my CallCentric account when called from there. - Therefore I also began to investigate THAT.
We also touch on the manner in which CallCentric's *67 functions.] = = = = = = = = = A few days ago, I started a thread called : » CallCentric Inbound CID-CNAM ReportNow that I'm evaluating ANVEO's service, it seemed only fitting to establish a similar thread about them.So far, I have not had as many inbound calls at my Anveo number as at my CallCentric one, due to the short period that I've HAD the Anveo DID, but now that I have been shown where it is and enabled their NOT-FREE/NOT-INCLUDED/NOT-PUBLICLY-ADVERTISED-REGARDLESS-OF-WHETHER-FREE-OR-NOT service for inbound CNAM Lookups, I actually am getting something positive and encouraging on my CID for incoming calls.  In another thread, I lamented that all I was getting incoming was numbers, duplicated in the NAME field of my CID, but that has now undergone a dramastic improvement ! As I was saying, last tonight I enabled the almost one penny per dip CNAM lookup service in my Anveo account, in order to see what it yields for inbound calls for a few days. Since then, various calls to my Anveo number have yielded the following results : |
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Davesnothere
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Early Inbound Results
NOTE : ALL phone numbers so far mentioned directly below, as well as my Anveo DID, are located in CANADIAN rate centres and NXXs within area code 613 (Eastern Ontario), unless stated otherwise.
Local call from my CallCentric DID :
Number - the correct 11 digits, properly delimited with dashes
Name - Surname, followed by Given name, exactly as I had originally entered within the CallCentric web portal under Preferences>Address, in MiXeD case - no truncation/abbreviation, as they total less than 15 characters including spaces
Local call from my Rogers cell :
Number - the correct 11 digits, properly delimited with dashes
Name - Business name as per last CNAM and/or Directory Listings update performed by Yellow Pages Group (Canada), in UPPER CASE - truncation/abbreviation of 20 characters down to the required 15 including spaces for CID
Local call from a friend using Cogeco Cable's 'Digital Phone' service :
Number - the correct 11 digits, properly delimited with dashes
Name - Surname, followed by 1st Initial, in MiXeD case - no truncation/abbreviation, as they total less than 15 characters including spaces
Caller has confirmed this to be the correct listing.
Local call from a friend using Bell Canada's POTS land line service :
Number - the correct 11 digits, properly delimited with dashes
Name - Surname, followed by 1st Initial, in MiXeD case - no truncation/abbreviation, as they total less than 15 characters including spaces
Caller believes this to be the correct listing.
NOTE : I plan to be adding to this post until it is 5 days old, and the DSLR system locks it from further edits.
After that, any new info will be posted later in this thread. |
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Davesnothere
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HOW to Enable Anveo's Inbound CNAM Lookup To explain the above screenshot, below is a slightly updated copy and paste of a post from another thread : said by Davesnothere:said by billaustin:In the Phone Number area of your Anveo account, where you edit the number properties, there is a Caller-ID tab where you can enable Name Look-ups for incoming calls.
I create a Contact entry for my repeat callers to avoid the $0.009 lookup charge.
Thanks, Mister Bill. I was so busy asking OTHER questions about Anveo in several other threads, that asking about CID-CNAM took the back seat for a while. Here, above, is a screenshot of the pop-up where this gets adjusted, with the option currently not ticked/enabled. Is this charge mentioned in the PUBLIC part of the Anveo site ? (Such as their Phone Numbers and/or Subscription Options pages) NOPE ! - Seems that you gotta open an account AND BUY A DID, and then login to the portal to find/see/modify it, in the area where you configure the phone numbers (DIDs). If you don't go that far, there is NO WAY TO KNOW IN ADVANCE FROM ANVEO's WEBSITE that Inbound CNAM lookup is even AVAILABLE, let alone that it is not free/included with the DID account. TALK ABOUT HIDING THINGS IN THE FINE PRINT ! Don't we get bitchy at incumbents like Bell Canada for pulling stunts like that ?! Please can anyone shed any light about Anveo's OUTBOUND CID-CNAM ? |
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Davesnothere
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Choosing the Primary SIP server I feel that it is also worth mentioning, that in the above screenshot, there is an additional tab called Geo. POP. This tab seems to be functioning to Choose the Primary SIP server at Anveo, something which I thought was only necessary to do (and had done) within my ATA » www.anveo.com/faq.asp?co ··· s-pap-2t , along with setting the DNS SRV parameters there to ENABLED. I changed this portal setting to the Canadian server (matching my ATA settings) and saved the change. Not sure whether/what difference it made, as things continued to work. |
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anveo
Premium Member
join:2010-02-08 |
anveo
Premium Member
2012-Aug-22 1:39 pm
Thanks for sharing your test results. said by Davesnothere:...Not sure whether/what difference it made, as things continued to work...
That is the beauty of Anveo infrastructure as all Anveo POPs operate as a single Eco System. So ATA device can be registered with one POP and incoming calls can be routed to another POP and everything will be working as expected Because of that things like DNS_SRV and failover will work seamlessly and reliably. P.S to answer your other question we do not support outbound CNAM. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
1 edit |
said by anveo:Thanks for sharing your test results.... Glad to do it ! I plan to add more numbers/carriers examples into the 2nd post of the thread. And thanks for weighing in. While you are here (if you still are), then would you clarify please as to whether the Geo. POP server setting in the Anveo web portal (which I above described) has priority over the one in our ATA, or vice versa, or some other scenario ? Do we need to set both of them the same server in order to be sure that default routing will be optimized to use that server ? As for the no Outbound CNAM - not a biggie - it's less important to me that other folks see my name than whether I see theirs - though both would be nice too. |
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 Trimline
Premium Member
join:2004-10-24
Windermere, FL |
to anveo
said by anveo:P.S to answer your other question we do not support outbound CNAM.
That's a pretty big thing. I would suggest you work on providing this to attract more customers. Both of my providers offered this with no issue. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
said by Trimline:That's a pretty big thing [Outbound CNAM].
I would suggest you work on providing this to attract more customers.
Both of my providers offered this with no issue.
I would think that business subscribers would care more about outbound CNAM than average folks like me. But having said that, 2 things want to enter my mind - the names of your 2 providers ?   And are they VoIP or something else ? |
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Davesnothere
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to anveo
said by anveo:....P.S to answer your other question - we do not support outbound CNAM.
It took me most of the afternoon to digest that comment, its consquences, and their relationship to my research. You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number. I reviewed this page of their FAQ » www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either. OK fine then, but I now have a MYSTERY on my hands. WHERE did Anveo get my proper name from the incoming CallCentric call ?I had drawn some conclusions in my 'early results' post above, but that was based on my previous assumption that CallCentric broadcasts outbound CNAM. Now I have to figure out how the CNAM seems to have made it thru on that call. Any ideas ? |
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 UHFAll static, all day, Forever
MVM
join:2002-05-24 |
UHF
MVM
2012-Aug-22 8:28 pm
I would assume that SIP to SIP calls work differently and don't use CNAM. But then, if you dialed a regular 1+ number to call from CC to Anveo, did the call traverse the PSTN or go via SIP the entire way? Inquiring minds want to know |
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 ·Fido
MikroTik RB750Gr3
MikroTik wAP AC
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said by UHF:I would assume that SIP to SIP calls work differently and don't use CNAM. But then, if you dialed a regular 1+ number to call from CC to Anveo, did the call traverse the PSTN or go via SIP the entire way? Inquiring minds want to know
PSTN was involved at some point. |
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to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:said by anveo:....P.S to answer your other question - we do not support outbound CNAM.
It took me most of the afternoon to digest that comment, its consquences, and their relationship to my research. You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number. I reviewed this page of their FAQ » www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either. OK fine then, but I now have a MYSTERY on my hands. WHERE did Anveo get my proper name from the incoming CallCentric call ? I had drawn some conclusions in my 'early results' post above, but that was based on my previous assumption that CallCentric broadcasts outbound CNAM. Now I have to figure out how the CNAM seems to have made it thru on that call. Any ideas ? Is your Callcentric number in your Anveo contact list under your name? |
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1 recommendation |
to Davesnothere
said by Davesnothere:You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number.
I reviewed this page of their FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either....
As you know, it's not so much a matter of broadcast but rather of LIDB population. My personal and quite unofficial impression is that although CC does not officially support outbound CNAM, they do try to provide it when possible.... |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
to UHF
said by UHF:I would assume that SIP to SIP calls work differently and don't use CNAM.
But then, if you dialed a regular 1+ number to call from CC to Anveo, did the call traverse the PSTN or go via SIP the entire way?
Inquiring minds want to know
I did not go SIP to SIP. Gotta try that sometime. @ GT : So it must have used PSTN at some point, in order to complete my call, yes ? |
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| Davesnothere |
to JoeSchmoe007
said by JoeSchmoe007:Is your Callcentric number in your Anveo contact list under your name?
No, I have not set up a contact list yet on my Anveo account. However, my CallCentric external DID number prob'ly IS in my CallCentric address book, though doubt that it would matter in this particular test. |
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Davesnothere
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to PX Eliezer704
said by PX Eliezer704:said by Davesnothere:You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number.
I reviewed this page of their FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either....
As you know, it's not so much a matter of broadcast but rather of LIDB population. My personal and quite unofficial impression is that although CC does not officially support outbound CNAM, they do try to provide it when possible.... I had a feeling that you would offer such an analysis. So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post) And just to muddy the waters a bit, did somebody here recently post that VOIP.MS broadcasts outbound CNAM, and if yes, under what conditions and costs ? |
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idbit
join:2008-12-04
Florida |
to Trimline
said by Trimline:said by anveo:P.S to answer your other question we do not support outbound CNAM.
That's a pretty big thing. I would suggest you work on providing this to attract more customers. Both of my providers offered this with no issue. I thought I read that in the US, the CNAM that appears on a call coming in to you is determined by your provider - not anything that is set by the caller or his provider. Which would make Outbound CNAM a pointless feature for somebody in the US that only calls US people. Am I wrong about that? |
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to Davesnothere
It is possible the name information was pass from your PAP2T-NA (or whatever ATA or IP Phone that you are using) "Display Name:" field? Try playing with this field with different information to see what is displayed on incoming calls to your Anveo DID. At one stage, I could change the "Display Name:" field to any 15-character and it would displayed on the incoming T-Mobile @Home system. said by Davesnothere:
So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post)
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 TrevAcroVoice & DryVoIP Official Rep
Premium Member
join:2009-06-29
Victoria, BC |
Trev to idbit
Premium Member
2012-Aug-23 11:39 am
to idbit
said by idbit:I thought I read that in the US, the CNAM that appears on a call coming in to you is determined by your provider - not anything that is set by the caller or his provider. Which would make Outbound CNAM a pointless feature for somebody in the US that only calls US people. Am I wrong about that?
There is an authoritative source (the Line Information Database) that all LECs (local exchange carriers -- the companies that provide DIDs to VoIP providers) are required to maintain. In the US, "outbound CNAM" means entering a CNAM value into this LIDB. If the call recipient's phone company is willing to pay to access the caller's LIDB, they will be able to access this CNAM value and display it to their customer. Sometimes, the call recipient's phone company doesn't want to pay to access the caller's LIDB, so they subscribe to a third party CNAM database. This database collects caller name information from other sources, such as phone book listings, and is a guess what the caller's name is. It's also generally much more economical as a single company can provide this information, rather than a number of companies spread out through the country (one for each major telco plus a few independents). |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
2 edits |
to DaveSin
said by Davesnothere:So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post)
said by DaveSin:It is possible the name information was passed from your PAP2T-NA (or whatever ATA or IP Phone that you are using) "Display Name:" field? Try playing with this field with different information to see what is displayed on incoming calls to your Anveo DID.
At one stage, I could change the "Display Name:" field to any 15-character and it would displayed on the incoming T-Mobile @Home system.
I was thinking about that last night at one point (while horizontal), but had forgotten about it by today when I made the post to which you replied. (Does that mean it was a dream ?) On other occasions, I have wondered what purpose that this ATA field served. And I think I remember Anveo specifying to enter Anveo into that field, but I believe I left my own name there from the last provider's settings. Later on today, I will investigate the several possibilities and provide an update. Thanks. |
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idbit
join:2008-12-04
Florida |
to Davesnothere
Re: ANVEO Inbound CID-CNAM ReportThanks Trev. That makes sense. |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
1 edit |
Re: Choosing the Primary SIP serversaid by Davesnothere:said by Davesnothere:So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post)
said by DaveSin:It is possible the name information was passed from your PAP2T-NA (or whatever ATA or IP Phone that you are using) "Display Name:" field? Try playing with this field with different information to see what is displayed on incoming calls to your Anveo DID.
At one stage, I could change the "Display Name:" field to any 15-character and it would displayed on the incoming T-Mobile @Home system.
....I think I remember Anveo specifying to enter Anveo into that field, but I believe I left my own name there from the last provider's settings. Later on today, I will investigate the several possibilities and provide an update. Thanks. UPDATE :I have just performed the following tests : (1) Changed the 'Display Name' field in the CallCentric channel of my ATA to something unique and placed a call from my CC number to my Anveo number. Results : NO CHANGES to what I reported in the 2nd post of this thread. quote:
[Incoming] from my CallCentric DID :
Number - the correct 11 digits, properly delimited with dashes
Name - Surname, followed by Given name, exactly as I had entered within the CallCentric web portal under Preferences>Address (unless I just now missed a more specific place in there where I had entered it for outbound CNAM), in MiXeD case - no truncation/abbreviation, as they total less than 15 characters including spaces
(2) Changed the 'Last Name' field in the CallCentric web portal Preferences>Address page to something further unique and placed a call from my CC number to my Anveo number. Results : Still NO CHANGEs (3) Waited a few minutes for my ATA to re-register (in case THAT might matter to any of my newest changes being passed as data) and placed one more call. Results : Still NO CHANGES - proper last and first name appeared So, the big $64,000 question : Is CallCentric doing more for us than they advertise ? |
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Davesnothere
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Test of *67 I figured that if I could not make a difference in my immediate above tests, then what if I tried to block CID altogether ? CallCentric's FAQ » www.callcentric.com/faq/31/221 describes this procedure. So I entered *67 and waited for the 2nd dial tone, like I have done like forever on POTS lines. Then I dialed the Anveo number. MY FULL INFO APPEARED AS BEFORE !Weird ! I hit the Redial and then Talk button. This time I get another number, accompanied by Glendora CA. It turns out that this is the number mentioned in the above CC FAQ. After that, I dialed once again as above. MY FULL INFO AGAIN APPEARED AS BEFORE !Hmmmm.... Looks like *67 DOES block CID (and indirectly CNAM) on an outbound CallCentric call on a per-call basis. BUT : It also looks like you must NOT wait for a 2nd dial tone ! (even though it gives you one) (Redialing just spews out a continuous string and THAT time, things went as the CC FAQ predicted.) OLD HABITS ARE HARD TO BREAK !I wonder whether or not CallCentric is aware of this behaviour of their service, and whether they could/would consider fixing it to match industry standard ?= = = = = = = = = = Next, I plan to examine my Anveo web portal incoming call log to search for clues. |
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Is the CC DID a number you ported in to CC? |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada
2 edits |
Anveo Call Log Analysis
The Anveo Call Log generated me various reports, one of which showed me a transaction for each of my incoming test calls for doing the CNAM dip, but not what data it found, nor where it might have found it.
Result : INCONCLUSIVE, but it looks like the CNAM data displayed by Anveo came as a result of a dip.
So, if that is true, then CallCentric must have published my number and name into an LIDB, based on what Trev suggested a few posts ago.
It's a bit of a blur - I remember that CC & VMS refuse to say from which provider they get their CNAM dips, but did we know which one that ANVEO uses ?
Would someone be so kind as to refresh me on which provider is used by Anveo for their CNAM dips ? |
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Davesnothere
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to DaveSin
Re: ANVEO Inbound CID-CNAM Reportsaid by DaveSin:Is the CC DID a number you ported in to CC?
Good question ! (and I know why you asked it, as I have some residual CNAM/directory-listings which may come as baggage when I DO get around to porting in 1 or 2 numbers which I have.) But no, it was a fresh DID number from CC. |
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| Davesnothere |
Where Am I Listed ?
I just looked up my CC number on TNID.US and it gives me the City and Province, and the name of my CLEC, but not MY name and not CallCentric's name. |
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Davesnothere
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Re: ANVEO Inbound CID-CNAM Report |
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to Davesnothere
Re: Test of *67said by Davesnothere:CallCentric's FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/221 describes this procedure.
So I entered *67 and waited for the 2nd dial tone, like I have done like forever on POTS lines.
Then I dialed the Anveo number. This is not correct. You do NOT wait for a 2nd dial tone. CC, thanks be to God, is not POTS. You should examine your CC outbound call logs. Also, note that you need to dial *67 1XXXXXXXXXX rather than *67xxxxxxxxxx Thus, your experiment had two different chances of error.  |
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DavesnothereChange is NOT Necessarily Progress
Premium Member
join:2009-06-15
Canada |
said by PX Eliezer704:....Thus, your experiment had two different chances of error.
Actually just the one chance, as I have been dialing 11 digits since (I think) CallWithUs required it ? Would CC have accepted 10 digits for general domestic use ? As posted above, I did figure out that I should not be pausing, but if CC and/or VoIPPs in general do something procedurally differently than POTS, ought not they to say so in their FAQ(s), and ought not they disable what appears to be the ubiquitous second dial tone and replace it with an indication of error, such as a busy signal or something ? Anyway, it was a minor distraction from my quest, and I will check my CC outbound call logs as you suggested, just to see what they show. |
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