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Davesnothere
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4 edits
reply to Davesnothere

HOW to Enable Anveo's Inbound CNAM Lookup

Click for full size
 
To explain the above screenshot, below is a slightly updated copy and paste of a post from another thread :

said by Davesnothere:

said by billaustin:

In the Phone Number area of your Anveo account, where you edit the number properties, there is a Caller-ID tab where you can enable Name Look-ups for incoming calls.

I create a Contact entry for my repeat callers to avoid the $0.009 lookup charge.

 
Thanks, Mister Bill.

I was so busy asking OTHER questions about Anveo in several other threads, that asking about CID-CNAM took the back seat for a while.

Here, above, is a screenshot of the pop-up where this gets adjusted, with the option currently not ticked/enabled.

Is this charge mentioned in the PUBLIC part of the Anveo site ? (Such as their Phone Numbers and/or Subscription Options pages)

NOPE ! - Seems that you gotta open an account AND BUY A DID, and then login to the portal to find/see/modify it, in the area where you configure the phone numbers (DIDs).

If you don't go that far, there is NO WAY TO KNOW IN ADVANCE FROM ANVEO's WEBSITE that Inbound CNAM lookup is even AVAILABLE, let alone that it is not free/included with the DID account.

TALK ABOUT HIDING THINGS IN THE FINE PRINT !

Don't we get bitchy at incumbents like Bell Canada for pulling stunts like that ?!

 
Please can anyone shed any light about Anveo's OUTBOUND CID-CNAM ?


Davesnothere
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2 edits

Choosing the Primary SIP server

 
I feel that it is also worth mentioning, that in the above screenshot, there is an additional tab called Geo. POP.

This tab seems to be functioning to Choose the Primary SIP server at Anveo, something which I thought was only necessary to do (and had done) within my ATA »www.anveo.com/faq.asp?code=linksys-pap-2t , along with setting the DNS SRV parameters there to ENABLED.

I changed this portal setting to the Canadian server (matching my ATA settings) and saved the change.

Not sure whether/what difference it made, as things continued to work.


anveo
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Thanks for sharing your test results.

said by Davesnothere:

...Not sure whether/what difference it made, as things continued to work...

That is the beauty of Anveo infrastructure as all Anveo POPs operate as a single Eco System. So ATA device can be registered with one POP and incoming calls can be routed to another POP and everything will be working as expected
Because of that things like DNS_SRV and failover will work seamlessly and reliably.

P.S to answer your other question we do not support outbound CNAM.


Davesnothere
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1 edit

said by anveo:

Thanks for sharing your test results....

 
Glad to do it !

I plan to add more numbers/carriers examples into the 2nd post of the thread.

And thanks for weighing in.

While you are here (if you still are), then would you clarify please as to whether the Geo. POP server setting in the Anveo web portal (which I above described) has priority over the one in our ATA, or vice versa, or some other scenario ?

Do we need to set both of them the same server in order to be sure that default routing will be optimized to use that server ?

As for the no Outbound CNAM - not a biggie - it's less important to me that other folks see my name than whether I see theirs - though both would be nice too.


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reply to anveo

said by anveo:

P.S to answer your other question we do not support outbound CNAM.

That's a pretty big thing. I would suggest you work on providing this to attract more customers. Both of my providers offered this with no issue.


Davesnothere
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said by Trimline:

That's a pretty big thing [Outbound CNAM].

I would suggest you work on providing this to attract more customers.

Both of my providers offered this with no issue.

 
I would think that business subscribers would care more about outbound CNAM than average folks like me.

But having said that, 2 things want to enter my mind - the names of your 2 providers ?

And are they VoIP or something else ?


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1 edit
reply to anveo

said by anveo:

....P.S to answer your other question - we do not support outbound CNAM.

 
It took me most of the afternoon to digest that comment, its consquences, and their relationship to my research.

You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number.

I reviewed this page of their FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either.

OK fine then, but I now have a MYSTERY on my hands.

WHERE did Anveo get my proper name from the incoming CallCentric call ?

I had drawn some conclusions in my 'early results' post above, but that was based on my previous assumption that CallCentric broadcasts outbound CNAM.

Now I have to figure out how the CNAM seems to have made it thru on that call.

Any ideas ?


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I would assume that SIP to SIP calls work differently and don't use CNAM. But then, if you dialed a regular 1+ number to call from CC to Anveo, did the call traverse the PSTN or go via SIP the entire way? Inquiring minds want to know


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said by UHF:

I would assume that SIP to SIP calls work differently and don't use CNAM. But then, if you dialed a regular 1+ number to call from CC to Anveo, did the call traverse the PSTN or go via SIP the entire way? Inquiring minds want to know

PSTN was involved at some point.
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

said by anveo:

....P.S to answer your other question - we do not support outbound CNAM.

 
It took me most of the afternoon to digest that comment, its consquences, and their relationship to my research.

You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number.

I reviewed this page of their FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either.

OK fine then, but I now have a MYSTERY on my hands.

WHERE did Anveo get my proper name from the incoming CallCentric call ?

I had drawn some conclusions in my 'early results' post above, but that was based on my previous assumption that CallCentric broadcasts outbound CNAM.

Now I have to figure out how the CNAM seems to have made it thru on that call.

Any ideas ?

Is your Callcentric number in your Anveo contact list under your name?

PX Eliezer7
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reply to Davesnothere

said by Davesnothere:

You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number.

I reviewed this page of their FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either....

As you know, it's not so much a matter of broadcast but rather of LIDB population.

My personal and quite unofficial impression is that although CC does not officially support outbound CNAM, they do try to provide it when possible....


Davesnothere
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reply to UHF

said by UHF:

I would assume that SIP to SIP calls work differently and don't use CNAM.

But then, if you dialed a regular 1+ number to call from CC to Anveo, did the call traverse the PSTN or go via SIP the entire way?

Inquiring minds want to know

 
I did not go SIP to SIP.

Gotta try that sometime.

@ GT : So it must have used PSTN at some point, in order to complete my call, yes ?


Davesnothere
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reply to JoeSchmoe007

said by JoeSchmoe007:

Is your Callcentric number in your Anveo contact list under your name?

 
No, I have not set up a contact list yet on my Anveo account.

However, my CallCentric external DID number prob'ly IS in my CallCentric address book, though doubt that it would matter in this particular test.


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1 edit
reply to PX Eliezer7

said by PX Eliezer7:

said by Davesnothere:

You see, when I posted my results above, one of the callers was my CallCentric number.

I reviewed this page of their FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/222 and its says that [like Anveo], that THEY do NOT broadcast outbound CNAM either....

As you know, it's not so much a matter of broadcast but rather of LIDB population.

My personal and quite unofficial impression is that although CC does not officially support outbound CNAM, they do try to provide it when possible....

 
I had a feeling that you would offer such an analysis.

So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post)

And just to muddy the waters a bit, did somebody here recently post that VOIP.MS broadcasts outbound CNAM, and if yes, under what conditions and costs ?

idbit

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reply to Trimline

said by Trimline:

said by anveo:

P.S to answer your other question we do not support outbound CNAM.

That's a pretty big thing. I would suggest you work on providing this to attract more customers. Both of my providers offered this with no issue.

I thought I read that in the US, the CNAM that appears on a call coming in to you is determined by your provider - not anything that is set by the caller or his provider. Which would make Outbound CNAM a pointless feature for somebody in the US that only calls US people. Am I wrong about that?

DaveSin

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reply to Davesnothere

It is possible the name information was pass from your PAP2T-NA (or whatever ATA or IP Phone that you are using) "Display Name:" field? Try playing with this field with different information to see what is displayed on incoming calls to your Anveo DID.

At one stage, I could change the "Display Name:" field to any 15-character and it would displayed on the incoming T-Mobile @Home system.

said by Davesnothere:

 

So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post)



Trev
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reply to idbit

said by idbit:

I thought I read that in the US, the CNAM that appears on a call coming in to you is determined by your provider - not anything that is set by the caller or his provider. Which would make Outbound CNAM a pointless feature for somebody in the US that only calls US people. Am I wrong about that?

There is an authoritative source (the Line Information Database) that all LECs (local exchange carriers -- the companies that provide DIDs to VoIP providers) are required to maintain.

In the US, "outbound CNAM" means entering a CNAM value into this LIDB.

If the call recipient's phone company is willing to pay to access the caller's LIDB, they will be able to access this CNAM value and display it to their customer.

Sometimes, the call recipient's phone company doesn't want to pay to access the caller's LIDB, so they subscribe to a third party CNAM database. This database collects caller name information from other sources, such as phone book listings, and is a guess what the caller's name is. It's also generally much more economical as a single company can provide this information, rather than a number of companies spread out through the country (one for each major telco plus a few independents).
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Davesnothere
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2 edits
reply to DaveSin

said by Davesnothere:

So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post)

said by DaveSin:

It is possible the name information was passed from your PAP2T-NA (or whatever ATA or IP Phone that you are using) "Display Name:" field? Try playing with this field with different information to see what is displayed on incoming calls to your Anveo DID.

At one stage, I could change the "Display Name:" field to any 15-character and it would displayed on the incoming T-Mobile @Home system.

 
I was thinking about that last night at one point (while horizontal), but had forgotten about it by today when I made the post to which you replied. (Does that mean it was a dream ?)

On other occasions, I have wondered what purpose that this ATA field served.

And I think I remember Anveo specifying to enter Anveo into that field, but I believe I left my own name there from the last provider's settings.

Later on today, I will investigate the several possibilities and provide an update.

Thanks.


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1 edit

said by Davesnothere:

said by Davesnothere:

So, should there be any way for me to determine for sure what is happening, possibly either from my Anveo portal call logs, or by fiddling with the NAME fields of my Callcentric portal 'address' page ? (mentioned in my 'Early Results' post)

said by DaveSin:

It is possible the name information was passed from your PAP2T-NA (or whatever ATA or IP Phone that you are using) "Display Name:" field? Try playing with this field with different information to see what is displayed on incoming calls to your Anveo DID.

At one stage, I could change the "Display Name:" field to any 15-character and it would displayed on the incoming T-Mobile @Home system.

 
....I think I remember Anveo specifying to enter Anveo into that field, but I believe I left my own name there from the last provider's settings.

Later on today, I will investigate the several possibilities and provide an update.

Thanks.

 
UPDATE :

I have just performed the following tests :

(1) Changed the 'Display Name' field in the CallCentric channel of my ATA to something unique and placed a call from my CC number to my Anveo number.

Results : NO CHANGES to what I reported in the 2nd post of this thread.
quote:
[Incoming] from my CallCentric DID :
Number - the correct 11 digits, properly delimited with dashes
Name - Surname, followed by Given name, exactly as I had entered within the CallCentric web portal under Preferences>Address (unless I just now missed a more specific place in there where I had entered it for outbound CNAM), in MiXeD case - no truncation/abbreviation, as they total less than 15 characters including spaces

 
(2) Changed the 'Last Name' field in the CallCentric web portal Preferences>Address page to something further unique and placed a call from my CC number to my Anveo number.

Results : Still NO CHANGEs

(3) Waited a few minutes for my ATA to re-register (in case THAT might matter to any of my newest changes being passed as data) and placed one more call.

Results : Still NO CHANGES - proper last and first name appeared

So, the big $64,000 question : Is CallCentric doing more for us than they advertise ?


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4 edits

Test of *67

 
I figured that if I could not make a difference in my immediate above tests, then what if I tried to block CID altogether ?

CallCentric's FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/221 describes this procedure.

So I entered *67 and waited for the 2nd dial tone, like I have done like forever on POTS lines.

Then I dialed the Anveo number.

MY FULL INFO APPEARED AS BEFORE !

Weird !

I hit the Redial and then Talk button.

This time I get another number, accompanied by Glendora CA.

It turns out that this is the number mentioned in the above CC FAQ.

After that, I dialed once again as above.

MY FULL INFO AGAIN APPEARED AS BEFORE !

Hmmmm....

Looks like *67 DOES block CID (and indirectly CNAM) on an outbound CallCentric call on a per-call basis.

BUT :

It also looks like you must NOT wait for a 2nd dial tone ! (even though it gives you one)

(Redialing just spews out a continuous string and THAT time, things went as the CC FAQ predicted.)

OLD HABITS ARE HARD TO BREAK !

I wonder whether or not CallCentric is aware of this behaviour of their service, and whether they could/would consider fixing it to match industry standard ?

= = = = = = = = = =

Next, I plan to examine my Anveo web portal incoming call log to search for clues.


DaveSin

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Is the CC DID a number you ported in to CC?



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2 edits
reply to Davesnothere

Anveo Call Log Analysis

 
The Anveo Call Log generated me various reports, one of which showed me a transaction for each of my incoming test calls for doing the CNAM dip, but not what data it found, nor where it might have found it.

Result : INCONCLUSIVE, but it looks like the CNAM data displayed by Anveo came as a result of a dip.

So, if that is true, then CallCentric must have published my number and name into an LIDB, based on what Trev suggested a few posts ago.

It's a bit of a blur - I remember that CC & VMS refuse to say from which provider they get their CNAM dips, but did we know which one that ANVEO uses ?

Would someone be so kind as to refresh me on which provider is used by Anveo for their CNAM dips ?



Davesnothere
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1 edit
reply to DaveSin

Re: ANVEO Inbound CID-CNAM Report

said by DaveSin:

Is the CC DID a number you ported in to CC?

 
Good question !

(and I know why you asked it, as I have some residual CNAM/directory-listings which may come as baggage when I DO get around to porting in 1 or 2 numbers which I have.)

But no, it was a fresh DID number from CC.


Davesnothere
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reply to Davesnothere

Where Am I Listed ?

 
I just looked up my CC number on TNID.US and it gives me the City and Province, and the name of my CLEC, but not MY name and not CallCentric's name.


PX Eliezer7
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reply to Davesnothere

Re: Test of *67

said by Davesnothere:

CallCentric's FAQ »www.callcentric.com/faq/31/221 describes this procedure.

So I entered *67 and waited for the 2nd dial tone, like I have done like forever on POTS lines.

Then I dialed the Anveo number.

This is not correct.

You do NOT wait for a 2nd dial tone. CC, thanks be to God, is not POTS.

You should examine your CC outbound call logs.

Also, note that you need to dial *671XXXXXXXXXX rather than *67xxxxxxxxxx

Thus, your experiment had two different chances of error.


Davesnothere
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said by PX Eliezer7:

....Thus, your experiment had two different chances of error.

 
Actually just the one chance, as I have been dialing 11 digits since (I think) CallWithUs required it ?

Would CC have accepted 10 digits for general domestic use ?

As posted above, I did figure out that I should not be pausing, but if CC and/or VoIPPs in general do something procedurally differently than POTS, ought not they to say so in their FAQ(s), and ought not they disable what appears to be the ubiquitous second dial tone and replace it with an indication of error, such as a busy signal or something ?

Anyway, it was a minor distraction from my quest, and I will check my CC outbound call logs as you suggested, just to see what they show.


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4 edits
reply to PX Eliezer7

Anveo's CNAM Dip Partner

 
So did you or anyone else here recently post the name of Anveo's CNAM Dip Partner, or am I mistaken ?

If yes, then please would you/they post it again ?


I would still like to formally troubleshoot how/why my name is appearing when I dial my Anveo number from my CC one.

And if CallCentric has published my name and number into some LIDB or whatever so that a partner of Anveo can dip it (if I understand that to be the correct description of the procedure - thanks Trev), should CC not have informed me of this, or even first asked me whether I wanted it to be done ?

What if I did not want it to be listed at all ?

And what of privacy issues ?

I WAS seriously considering asking to have purged the existing LIDB/CNAM/directory listings of whatever numbers I may port in to a VoIPP, and would also be quite curious how successful I would be in such a regard.


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People gripe if a VoIPP [does] do LIDB population, and they gripe if it [does not].

Nobody's ever happy, it seems.

This is why VoIP engineers get prematurely gray in the US, and prematurely grey in Canada.

--------------------------

I find this quite interesting.

On one hand, you repeatedly say that VoIPP should follow POTS traditions.

On the other hand, you take issue with a VoIPP possibly doing LIDB population. But doing that is the gold standard for POTS! So the VoIPP would be doing exactly that which you claim to desire.



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said by PX Eliezer7:

People gripe....

 
Yes, the strange paradox that is ME !

(aka "Please all, please none")

Actually, I am a small 'c' conservative late adopter of new things who just thinks that POTS costs too much for what they give you, but would be willing to pay VoIPPs somewhat more than many of them ask if they would just let me have what I want in phone functionality, and leave off what I don't, and communicate properly with me about all of it.

Kind of like the perennial BK ad hook.

BTW, customers can go grey/gray while sorting thru all of this too.

And some with few hairs TO change hue.


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1 edit
reply to PX Eliezer7

said by PX Eliezer7:

People gripe if a VoIPP [does] do LIDB population, and [yet] they gripe if it [does not].

[for example] On one hand, you repeatedly say that VoIPP should follow POTS traditions.

On the other hand, you take issue with a VoIPP possibly doing LIDB population.

But doing that is the gold standard for POTS!

So the VoIPP would be doing exactly that which you claim to desire.

 
Just call me Mister Irony !

Hmmmm - now THAT's what I ought to request for my outbound CNAM/LIDB entry !

(and mayhaps my tombstone ? )