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Ayzee

join:2010-03-26
canada

[BC] L.A. Routing problem

Hey guys, I just want to compare my tracert to a LA server I frequent with anyone else in B.C.

My route now veers out east before hitting LA, which is quite annoying. Previously I would ping 50ms no problem, now im in the 110's. Just curious if this is a problem on Telus's side or perhaps the host?

Tracing route to [76.74.236.91]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms d142-179-56-1.bchsia.telus.net [142.179.56.1]
3 38 ms 32 ms 34 ms 173.182.197.2
4 81 ms 81 ms 80 ms ASBNVACYGR00.bb.telus.com [154.11.11.98]
5 80 ms 80 ms 80 ms 206.223.127.129
6 80 ms 80 ms 80 ms 10ge.xe-0-0-0.tor-1yg-cor-1.peer1.net [216.187.1
14.133]
7 90 ms 91 ms 90 ms 10ge.xe-0-0-0.chi-eqx-dis-1.peer1.net [216.187.1
14.141]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 112 ms 112 ms 112 ms [76.74.236.91]

Trace complete.

If anyone else could do a quick tracert for me that would be great. This just started to happen in the past week, it was rock solid for along time previously.

ruiner

join:2012-03-10
Canada
  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.254
  2     7 ms     6 ms     6 ms  10.149.32.1
  3    10 ms     8 ms     8 ms  154.11.246.206
  4     8 ms     7 ms     8 ms  173.182.214.131
  5    15 ms    11 ms    29 ms  154.11.22.114
  6    57 ms    57 ms    57 ms  ASBNVACYGR00.bb.telus.com [154.11.11.98]
  7    56 ms    57 ms    57 ms  206.223.127.129
  8    56 ms    57 ms    57 ms  10ge.xe-0-0-0.tor-1yg-cor-1.peer1.net [216.187.1
14.133]
  9    67 ms    67 ms    67 ms  10ge.xe-0-0-0.chi-eqx-dis-1.peer1.net [216.187.1
14.141]
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 14    85 ms    85 ms    85 ms  jennyfur.pelican.org [76.74.236.91]
 

It has to do with Telus' peering partners who apparently don't always use optimal routes.

I had this happen to me before too, most of my traffic to LA was routing through Chicago for a while. I've also seen people complaining of horrendous latency to people in the same town on different ISPs, because of peering.


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
reply to Ayzee
Voila! Shaw seems to peer a bit better, but there will always be bad ones on any ISP. Luckily for me, Shaw directly peers with InterNAP, which is what some of my machines in Seattle run on .


pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC
reply to Ayzee
What's wrong with that peering? TELUS hands it off to Peer1 right away.
--
The more I C, the less I see.

ruiner

join:2012-03-10
Canada
What's wrong is that it goes to the east coast before it is handed off. Then down to Chicago before it finally makes it to LA. It should be going straight down the west coast.

My ping to LA should be 40 - 60 ms at the highest. 85 ms isn't very good and 112 ms is horrible. 40 ms makes for a very playable game, 112 ms gets unresponsive.


Ayzee

join:2010-03-26
canada
Yup, pretty much exactly what ruiner said.

I'm hoping the route fixes it self. The route typically went through seattle (as it should) for the past long while. Just recently did it start going back east.

And yes its very disruptive for online gaming, which a lot of you probably don't care about, but it matters to me. =)

ruiner

join:2012-03-10
Canada
reply to pfak
Its not so much the peering partner's fault in this case actually. Peer 1 has a presence in Seattle but either Telus doesn't have a connection to it or their routing is messed up and not choosing that path.

In either case this is Telus' fault.

WackyGaru

join:2009-02-10
Grande Prairie, AB
Once it leaves TELUS's network they don't have much control over how it's routed... But you're right that's definately TELUS's fault *eye roll*


rustydusty

join:2009-09-29
Red Deer, AB
Not directly, but Telus DOES control who it directly peers with. For instance, Shaw peers direct with InterNAP in Seattle, which is why I chose my hosting there as a provider using InterNAP as their backbone. I get 20-25ms then, which is nice

ruiner

join:2012-03-10
Canada
reply to WackyGaru
said by WackyGaru:

Once it leaves TELUS's network they don't have much control over how it's routed... But you're right that's definately TELUS's fault *eye roll*

You might want to try actually reading what I said instead of just assuming.

Take a look at hop 6. ASBNVACYGR00.bb.telus.com is located in Ontario and it appears to be inside of the Telus network does it not?

titan_rw

join:2007-08-23
reply to Ayzee
I know one server I used to talk to a lot was in Seattle. I'm in Calgary. But Telus routed everything going to Seattle through Chicago. Really added to the latency to go out east, then all the way back west.

I remember at the time, Shaw's routing was much better. It went straight west instead of east first.

It's true Telus can't control what their peers do after leaving Telus's network, but the Chicago hop in question reverse resolved to a telus domain. Also, Telus controls who they peer with in the first place. So if a peer has less than optimal routes, maybe they should have different / more peers.


pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC
reply to ruiner
said by ruiner:

Its not so much the peering partner's fault in this case actually. Peer 1 has a presence in Seattle but either Telus doesn't have a connection to it or their routing is messed up and not choosing that path.

In either case this is Telus' fault.

TELUS can't help how Peer1 advertises their routes. Infact, Peer1 has presence in Vancouver and peers directly with TELUS.

traceroute to ns1.peer1.net (69.90.13.5), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.3.1 (192.168.3.1)  0.295 ms  0.343 ms  0.370 ms
 2  10.31.198.1 (10.31.198.1)  7.506 ms  7.262 ms  7.803 ms
 3  ASBNVACYGR00.bb.telus.com (154.11.11.98)  55.782 ms  55.780 ms  55.747 ms
 4  206.223.127.129 (206.223.127.129)  55.735 ms  55.700 ms  56.026 ms
 5  10ge.xe-0-2-0.tor-151f-dis-1.peer1.net (216.187.114.146)  55.872 ms  55.817 ms  55.799 ms
 6  ns1.peer1.net (69.90.13.5)  57.845 ms  57.218 ms  57.201 ms
 

Looks like they're simply not advertising their prefixes correctly, since normally this would go to Harbour Centre from 768 Seymour.

--
The more I C, the less I see.

Old Koot

join:2011-04-19
08/26/12 03:46:34 Fast traceroute 76.74.236.91
Trace 76.74.236.91 ...
1 172.16.0.10 1ms 0ms 1ms TTL: 0 (homeportal ok)
2 64.180.192.254 22ms 24ms 22ms TTL: 0 (d64-180-192-254.bchsia.telus.net ok)
3 154.11.44.139 20ms 20ms 22ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
4 75.154.209.17 27ms 21ms 22ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
5 154.11.11.98 72ms 72ms 70ms TTL: 0 (ASBNVACYGR00.bb.telus.com fraudulent rDNS)
6 206.223.127.129 72ms 72ms 72ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
7 216.187.114.133 72ms 72ms 72ms TTL: 0 (10ge.xe-0-0-0.tor-1yg-cor-1.peer1.net probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
8 216.187.114.141 97ms 82ms 82ms TTL: 0 (10ge.xe-0-0-0.chi-eqx-dis-1.peer1.net probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
9 No Response * * *
10 No Response * * *
11 No Response * * *
12 No Response * * *
13 76.74.236.91 98ms 101ms 99ms TTL: 49 (jennyfur.pelican.org ok)

my 6th hop shows
IP Address: 206.223.127.129
ISP: PEER 1 Network
Region: New York (US)

the 13th shows as
IP Address: 76.74.236.91
ISP: PEER 1 Network
Organization: ServerBeach
Region: Los Angeles (US)

ruiner

join:2012-03-10
Canada
reply to pfak
said by pfak:

TELUS can't help how Peer1 advertises their routes.

This is true, but they also need to make sure they are providing their customers with an optimal experience. They need to either get on their peering partners to stop doing this BS or manually correct some of these stupid routes (which is probably too much work for them to consider).

Telus seems to think everyone other than web surfers are such a small percentage that they don't matter. Well just gaming has grown to a huge industry now and a lot of that is multiplayer.

I had this problem before when I didn't have a choice of ISP where my 60 ms route to LA suddenly turned into a 140 ms trip through the east. It was finally corrected at least 6 months later.

And now that I just moved and stupidly took a year contract, my VOIP service in Seattle now has 200 ms of latency instead of 10 - 15 ms like every Seattle game server I have played on. Luckily they have servers in other locations that aren't as bad.

Why advertise 250 and 500 GB caps if every customer is just a Grandma who checks their email and does a bit of light surfing to read the news?


pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Vancouver, BC
reply to Ayzee
Actually, I am off the ball -- I found out why HC 768 Seymour got pulled for Peer1.

TELUS was charging Peer1 to peer in Vancouver.

Yep. So, in this case .. Totally TELUS's fault. Screw em.
--
The more I C, the less I see.


Ayzee

join:2010-03-26
canada
reply to ruiner
Ruiner you make some good points. I hope Telus begins to take peering more seriously, as there is a growing number of people that take ping's seriously, as it effects a number of applications not just gaming.

Check out this fun route to a Seattle server I frequent. I don't think this is a Telus fault but its still annoying to say the least. I used to be low 30's.

Tracing route to 69.12.104.204 over a maximum of 30 hops

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.254
2 21 ms 20 ms 20 ms d142-179-56-1.bchsia.telus.net [142.179.56.1]
3 31 ms 31 ms 37 ms 173.182.196.1
4 34 ms 34 ms 34 ms VANCBC01GR01.bb.telus.com [154.11.10.10]
5 117 ms 208 ms 122 ms te8-3.ccr02.sea02.atlas.cogentco.com [38.104.126
.149]
6 218 ms 207 ms 207 ms te9-1.ccr02.sea01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.82.
33]
7 53 ms 53 ms 54 ms te0-0-0-1.mpd22.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
.40.105]
8 65 ms 65 ms 64 ms te0-3-0-4.mpd22.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54
.45.105]
9 116 ms 66 ms 66 ms te3-4.ccr01.lax04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.44.
2]
10 63 ms 62 ms 62 ms xe-8-3-1.edge1.LosAngels.Level3.net [4.68.70.61]

11 62 ms 61 ms 63 ms ae-32-80.car2.LosAngeles1.Level3.net [4.69.144.1
32]
12 62 ms 62 ms 62 ms ge2-2.bbsr1.lax.megapath.net [63.215.86.150]
13 63 ms 63 ms 63 ms ge-0-1-2-0.lsancagb-mxc1.bb.megapath.net [155.22
9.70.190]
14 64 ms 72 ms 64 ms ae4-0.snvacaid-mxc1.bb.megapath.net [155.229.70.
238]
15 81 ms 81 ms 81 ms ae2-0.sttlwawb-mxc1.bb.megapath.net [155.229.101
.93]
16 83 ms 82 ms 84 ms ge3-0-0.m10.stl.bb.megapath.net [155.229.101.189
]
17 83 ms 83 ms 84 ms 155.229.120.186
18 64 ms 64 ms 64 ms ve191.ge0-1-0.core1.lax.megapath.net [66.80.133.
18]
19 65 ms 66 ms 65 ms 69.12.104.204

Trace complete.