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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

Deadly Amoebas Found in Tankless Water Heater

quote:
Two cases of people in Louisiana who died after contracting "brain-eating amoeba" infections from their own household water systems are prompting health officials to warn about a popular home remedy for treating sinus problems and allergies.

People who use neti pots to irrigate their nasal passages and sinuses should use only water that has been boiled, filtered or distilled, said the researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention who investigated the unrelated cases, which occurred months apart in 2011 in different parts of Louisiana.

...

In the case of the 28-year-old man in southern Louisiana who died, the amoebas were found in a tankless water heater in the home.

»news.yahoo.com/brain-eating-amoe···585.html
I'm glad I have a standard tank water heater and keep the temperature at 135 F.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

135 degrees won't kill organisms. But you are being paranoid anyway. Besides the following, the two cases you listed are by people regularly injecting the water into their noses.

quote:
"We don't know that there's a big risk from this — most cases occur from swimming in warm, fresh water," Yoder said. In fact, of the 32 N. fowleri cases reported in the U.S. between 2002 and 2011, 28 people were infected by contaminated recreational water activities, such as swimming in lakes or rivers, and two were infected by water from a contaminated geothermal source.


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Bob4

I don't think the tank helps you. They are talking boiling for 3 minutes. I tried to read the study but it's subscription.

I occasionally use one of the Neti Pots for a few years and have always boiled the water. It just seemed the smart thing to do.


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
reply to Lurch77

These amoebas can only live for short periods of time in temperatures above 122 F.

See - »www.cdc.gov/parasites/naegleria/···gen.html



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

I'm glad I have a standard tank water heater and keep the temperature at 135 F.

Are you also glad you don't have bathroom sink or tub faucets?

quote:
In the case of the 28-year-old man in southern Louisiana who died, the amoebas were found in a tankless water heater in the home. N. fowleri were also found in the bathroom sink faucet and tub faucet in the home of the 51-year-old woman in the northern part of the state who died, according to the report.


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to Bob4

Not to sound in defense of tankless heaters, doesn't matter if a tank or tankless, HW heaters don't boil water (212F @ sea level).
There are scalding issues...and not to be set over 125F.

The issue here is why is this bacteria in the water supply (treatment inadequate), why water is not boiled before putting in your nose (neti pot...),... and now, I wonder about my municipal water quality (last summer they mailed letters with Boil Water in bold print...)

More people die from other infections in hospitals (staph, etc) than this infection annually, but now I expect someone passing regulations for neti pots... making money with warning labels...
--
Splat



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by cableties:

The issue here is why is this bacteria in the water supply (treatment inadequate), why water is not boiled before putting in your nose (neti pot...),... and now, I wonder about my municipal water quality (last summer they mailed letters with Boil Water in bold print...)

Not all have municipal water. There are millions with individual wells and millions more on shared well systems. There are also millions subjected to municipal sources whose treatment is inadequate to eliminate or minimize the potential hazards the water contains.


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
reply to cableties

said by cableties:

not to be set over 125F.

Huh? Most sources I have read indicate a minimum setting of 140°F to prevent the growth of Legionella and other harmful bacteria. Of course if small children are present, anti-scald devices will be required.

Bear in mind the typical residential water heater has but one thermostat, generally adjacent to the burner/heating element. Water is not exactly known to heat evenly which leaves a portion of your tank at a lower temperature, especially if its a larger unit.

I'm hardly a germophobe, but to me it's not worth the couple extra bucks a year I'd save by turning down the water heater thermostat.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 edit

You'd need to know the BTUs and all that, but I assure you it's more than a couple bucks per year going from 120 to 140.

quote:
5. Turn down thermostat
For each 10 degree reduction, save 3-5% operating cost.
Save $2-4 per month standby cost
120 degrees or lower is considered optimal
130 degrees recommended to kill bacteria when washing clothes
Temperatures above 140 can cause minerals to distill out of water and damage pipes

»waterheatertimer.org/9-ways-to-s···ter.html


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1

I keep my tankless at 120 degrees and it's been fine. I have well water that has been tested twice during 2 phases of my home build, passing with flying colors both times. No problems.


iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Lurch77

said by Lurch77:

You'd need to know the BTUs and all that, but I assure you it's more than a couple bucks per year going from 120 to 140.

quote:
5. Turn down thermostat
For each 10 degree reduction, save 3-5% operating cost.
Save $2-4 per month standby cost
120 degrees or lower is considered optimal
130 degrees recommended to kill bacteria when washing clothes
Temperatures above 140 can cause minerals to distill out of water and damage pipes

»waterheatertimer.org/9-ways-to-s···ter.html

they have no idea what they are talking about, but how much is a human life worth? put a price on that, and you'll see it's cheaper to set the proper temperature on the water heater to kill dangerous organisms, than to replace a human life!. of course, there is adoption, but finding an exact match for one you lost can be a real pain, and probably take many years!!.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by iknow:

said by Lurch77:

You'd need to know the BTUs and all that, but I assure you it's more than a couple bucks per year going from 120 to 140.

quote:
5. Turn down thermostat
For each 10 degree reduction, save 3-5% operating cost.
Save $2-4 per month standby cost
120 degrees or lower is considered optimal
130 degrees recommended to kill bacteria when washing clothes
Temperatures above 140 can cause minerals to distill out of water and damage pipes

»waterheatertimer.org/9-ways-to-s···ter.html

they have no idea what they are talking about, but how much is a human life worth? put a price on that, and you'll see it's cheaper to set the proper temperature on the water heater to kill dangerous organisms, than to replace a human life!. of course, there is adoption, but finding an exact match for one you lost can be a real pain, and probably take many years!!.

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

Meanwhile I'll leave mine at 120 degrees.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
reply to iknow

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?


iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

Meanwhile I'll leave mine at 120 degrees.

not forever though. "In the case of the 28-year-old man in southern Louisiana who died, the amoebas were found in a tankless water heater in the home. N. fowleri were also found in the bathroom sink faucet and tub faucet in the home of the 51-year-old woman in the northern part of the state who died, according to the report." you can play chicken for many years too, but there is that one time..


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by iknow:

said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

Meanwhile I'll leave mine at 120 degrees.

not forever though. "In the case of the 28-year-old man in southern Louisiana who died, the amoebas were found in a tankless water heater in the home. N. fowleri were also found in the bathroom sink faucet and tub faucet in the home of the 51-year-old woman in the northern part of the state who died, according to the report." you can play chicken for many years too, but there is that one time..

I've made it this long so I'm not too worried or paranoid.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
reply to Bob4

My water heater has a problem providing enough hot water when the temperature is set to 125 Degrees. I found one solution that will cook the amoebas and provide enough hot water. By adding a tempering valve see this website:

»www.watts.com/pages/_products_de···?pid=717

I can maintain the water temperature in the tank at 160 degrees and set the tempering valve at 125 degrees to the fixtures. Since the tempering valve mixes 160 degree water with 70 degree cold water I get more hot water and well done amoebas.



pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to Lurch77

said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25

said by pike:

said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

the fact that death can occur means that any action other than to make sure the water is safe by setting a temperature that kills at least enough organisms is nothing other that rolling the dice, you may live, or you may die, your family and anyone else that uses the water is rolling the dice too. some people like to gamble, it makes life interesting.

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Lurch77

By IL. code it's 120. As always your free to do whatever, but if you have company or sell the house, set it back or else your a screwed monkey if someone scalds themselves. It' a stupid for ANYONE with kids to set it higher .... Whenever I trim out a house and the owner is there, I'll run the hot water with a thermometer from the nearest tap from the heater to show the customer.



Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to iknow

Using that logic, you need to lock yourself in a room and never come out. Nearly everything you do can end in death. You might walk out your front door and be killed by a trained circus gorilla who stole his masters car and proceeded to drive it badly. What are the odds of that? Probably a little worse than being killed by amoebas in your hot water tank. But it could happen.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to iknow

said by iknow:

said by pike:

said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

the fact that death can occur means that any action other than to make sure the water is safe by setting a temperature that kills at least enough organisms is nothing other that rolling the dice, you may live, or you may die, your family and anyone else that uses the water is rolling the dice too. some people like to gamble, it makes life interesting.

The CDC recommends the temperature be no hotter than 120 degrees. That is all I need for justification.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to iknow

said by iknow:

said by pike:

said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

the fact that death can occur means that any action other than to make sure the water is safe by setting a temperature that kills at least enough organisms is nothing other that rolling the dice, you may live, or you may die, your family and anyone else that uses the water is rolling the dice too. some people like to gamble, it makes life interesting.

Then you should stop eating, drinking, and breathing because there might be something in the food, liquid, or air that COULD cause death.

Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
reply to Bob4

Before we moved into this house the hot water heater was shut off for several months. The hot water developed a hydrogen sulfide smell. I was going to be away for the weekend before we moved in, so I set the thermostats to 160 degrees measured with a candy thermometer at the faucet. I set the temperature back to 125 degrees after I returned. No more smell.


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

1 recommendation

reply to kherr

said by kherr:

It' a stupid for ANYONE with kids to set it higher

Yeah, right, like a kid is actually going to wash his hands!


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to pike

said by pike:

Huh? Most sources I have read indicate a minimum setting of 140°F to prevent the growth of Legionella and other harmful bacteria.

*Unless you live in US, where lawyers will suffer through 10 agonizing seconds of keeping their hands under hot water in order to sue.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to Bob4

I have a tank for storage, it's fed by ~150-160F water from the boiler. It's own thermostat is set at 140F, just in case... mixing valve at output takes care of any scalding issue.


iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

The CDC recommends the temperature be no hotter than 120 degrees. That is all I need for justification.

yeah, at the FAUCETS!. anyway, remember when OSHA said the air around the world trade center was safe to breath after 9/11?.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by iknow:

said by Jack_in_VA:

The CDC recommends the temperature be no hotter than 120 degrees. That is all I need for justification.

yeah, at the FAUCETS!. anyway, remember when OSHA said the air around the world trade center was safe to breath after 9/11?.

Well like I said you are free to set yours at whatever temperature that you are comfortable with. It's a personal choice.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to ropeguru

said by ropeguru:

Then you should stop eating, drinking, and breathing because there might be something in the food, liquid, or air that COULD cause death.

heck no, i'll not drink contaminated water, eat bad food, and breath in dangerous air, i'll not be a passenger in a car with a drunk driver either!. i'll do anything that is common sense to do, and can be done. this is something that can be easily avoided. everyone dies of something, but people don't have to die from water!.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to cowboyro

said by cowboyro:

I have a tank for storage, it's fed by ~150-160F water from the boiler. It's own thermostat is set at 140F, just in case... mixing valve at output takes care of any scalding issue.

i do mine the same way.. mine is an indirect water heater though.