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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to Bob4

Re: Deadly Amoebas Found in Tankless Water Heater

Not to sound in defense of tankless heaters, doesn't matter if a tank or tankless, HW heaters don't boil water (212F @ sea level).
There are scalding issues...and not to be set over 125F.

The issue here is why is this bacteria in the water supply (treatment inadequate), why water is not boiled before putting in your nose (neti pot...),... and now, I wonder about my municipal water quality (last summer they mailed letters with Boil Water in bold print...)

More people die from other infections in hospitals (staph, etc) than this infection annually, but now I expect someone passing regulations for neti pots... making money with warning labels...
--
Splat


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by cableties:

The issue here is why is this bacteria in the water supply (treatment inadequate), why water is not boiled before putting in your nose (neti pot...),... and now, I wonder about my municipal water quality (last summer they mailed letters with Boil Water in bold print...)

Not all have municipal water. There are millions with individual wells and millions more on shared well systems. There are also millions subjected to municipal sources whose treatment is inadequate to eliminate or minimize the potential hazards the water contains.


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3
reply to cableties
said by cableties:

not to be set over 125F.

Huh? Most sources I have read indicate a minimum setting of 140°F to prevent the growth of Legionella and other harmful bacteria. Of course if small children are present, anti-scald devices will be required.

Bear in mind the typical residential water heater has but one thermostat, generally adjacent to the burner/heating element. Water is not exactly known to heat evenly which leaves a portion of your tank at a lower temperature, especially if its a larger unit.

I'm hardly a germophobe, but to me it's not worth the couple extra bucks a year I'd save by turning down the water heater thermostat.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 edit
You'd need to know the BTUs and all that, but I assure you it's more than a couple bucks per year going from 120 to 140.

quote:
5. Turn down thermostat
For each 10 degree reduction, save 3-5% operating cost.
Save $2-4 per month standby cost
120 degrees or lower is considered optimal
130 degrees recommended to kill bacteria when washing clothes
Temperatures above 140 can cause minerals to distill out of water and damage pipes

»waterheatertimer.org/9-ways-to-s···ter.html


SwedishRider
Rider on the Storm
Premium
join:2006-01-11
not Sweden
kudos:1
I keep my tankless at 120 degrees and it's been fine. I have well water that has been tested twice during 2 phases of my home build, passing with flying colors both times. No problems.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Lurch77
said by Lurch77:

You'd need to know the BTUs and all that, but I assure you it's more than a couple bucks per year going from 120 to 140.

quote:
5. Turn down thermostat
For each 10 degree reduction, save 3-5% operating cost.
Save $2-4 per month standby cost
120 degrees or lower is considered optimal
130 degrees recommended to kill bacteria when washing clothes
Temperatures above 140 can cause minerals to distill out of water and damage pipes

»waterheatertimer.org/9-ways-to-s···ter.html

they have no idea what they are talking about, but how much is a human life worth? put a price on that, and you'll see it's cheaper to set the proper temperature on the water heater to kill dangerous organisms, than to replace a human life!. of course, there is adoption, but finding an exact match for one you lost can be a real pain, and probably take many years!!.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by iknow:

said by Lurch77:

You'd need to know the BTUs and all that, but I assure you it's more than a couple bucks per year going from 120 to 140.

quote:
5. Turn down thermostat
For each 10 degree reduction, save 3-5% operating cost.
Save $2-4 per month standby cost
120 degrees or lower is considered optimal
130 degrees recommended to kill bacteria when washing clothes
Temperatures above 140 can cause minerals to distill out of water and damage pipes

»waterheatertimer.org/9-ways-to-s···ter.html

they have no idea what they are talking about, but how much is a human life worth? put a price on that, and you'll see it's cheaper to set the proper temperature on the water heater to kill dangerous organisms, than to replace a human life!. of course, there is adoption, but finding an exact match for one you lost can be a real pain, and probably take many years!!.

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

Meanwhile I'll leave mine at 120 degrees.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4
reply to iknow
I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

Meanwhile I'll leave mine at 120 degrees.

not forever though. "In the case of the 28-year-old man in southern Louisiana who died, the amoebas were found in a tankless water heater in the home. N. fowleri were also found in the bathroom sink faucet and tub faucet in the home of the 51-year-old woman in the northern part of the state who died, according to the report." you can play chicken for many years too, but there is that one time..


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by iknow:

said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

Meanwhile I'll leave mine at 120 degrees.

not forever though. "In the case of the 28-year-old man in southern Louisiana who died, the amoebas were found in a tankless water heater in the home. N. fowleri were also found in the bathroom sink faucet and tub faucet in the home of the 51-year-old woman in the northern part of the state who died, according to the report." you can play chicken for many years too, but there is that one time..

I've made it this long so I'm not too worried or paranoid.


pike
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-01
Washington, DC
kudos:3

1 edit
reply to Lurch77
said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
said by pike:

said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

the fact that death can occur means that any action other than to make sure the water is safe by setting a temperature that kills at least enough organisms is nothing other that rolling the dice, you may live, or you may die, your family and anyone else that uses the water is rolling the dice too. some people like to gamble, it makes life interesting.

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Lurch77
By IL. code it's 120. As always your free to do whatever, but if you have company or sell the house, set it back or else your a screwed monkey if someone scalds themselves. It' a stupid for ANYONE with kids to set it higher .... Whenever I trim out a house and the owner is there, I'll run the hot water with a thermometer from the nearest tap from the heater to show the customer.


Lurch77
Premium
join:2001-11-22
Oconto, WI
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to iknow
Using that logic, you need to lock yourself in a room and never come out. Nearly everything you do can end in death. You might walk out your front door and be killed by a trained circus gorilla who stole his masters car and proceeded to drive it badly. What are the odds of that? Probably a little worse than being killed by amoebas in your hot water tank. But it could happen.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to iknow
said by iknow:

said by pike:

said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

the fact that death can occur means that any action other than to make sure the water is safe by setting a temperature that kills at least enough organisms is nothing other that rolling the dice, you may live, or you may die, your family and anyone else that uses the water is rolling the dice too. some people like to gamble, it makes life interesting.

The CDC recommends the temperature be no hotter than 120 degrees. That is all I need for justification.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to iknow
said by iknow:

said by pike:

said by Lurch77:

I'm curious, just how many people have died from organisms in hot water tanks?

»www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article···2094925/

Probably not a whole lot. However, one doesn't necessarily need to die to be seriously inconvenienced by a bacterial infection.
said by Jack_in_VA:

You do realize you can run yours at any temperature you want and feel comfortable with don't you?

I think Jack said it best here.

Not really worth arguing about but it's nice to have some facts behind whatever decision each homeowner ultimately makes.

the fact that death can occur means that any action other than to make sure the water is safe by setting a temperature that kills at least enough organisms is nothing other that rolling the dice, you may live, or you may die, your family and anyone else that uses the water is rolling the dice too. some people like to gamble, it makes life interesting.

Then you should stop eating, drinking, and breathing because there might be something in the food, liquid, or air that COULD cause death.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

1 recommendation

reply to kherr
said by kherr:

It' a stupid for ANYONE with kids to set it higher

Yeah, right, like a kid is actually going to wash his hands!


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to pike
said by pike:

Huh? Most sources I have read indicate a minimum setting of 140°F to prevent the growth of Legionella and other harmful bacteria.

*Unless you live in US, where lawyers will suffer through 10 agonizing seconds of keeping their hands under hot water in order to sue.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

The CDC recommends the temperature be no hotter than 120 degrees. That is all I need for justification.

yeah, at the FAUCETS!. anyway, remember when OSHA said the air around the world trade center was safe to breath after 9/11?.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by iknow:

said by Jack_in_VA:

The CDC recommends the temperature be no hotter than 120 degrees. That is all I need for justification.

yeah, at the FAUCETS!. anyway, remember when OSHA said the air around the world trade center was safe to breath after 9/11?.

Well like I said you are free to set yours at whatever temperature that you are comfortable with. It's a personal choice.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to ropeguru
said by ropeguru:

Then you should stop eating, drinking, and breathing because there might be something in the food, liquid, or air that COULD cause death.

heck no, i'll not drink contaminated water, eat bad food, and breath in dangerous air, i'll not be a passenger in a car with a drunk driver either!. i'll do anything that is common sense to do, and can be done. this is something that can be easily avoided. everyone dies of something, but people don't have to die from water!.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by iknow:

said by ropeguru:

Then you should stop eating, drinking, and breathing because there might be something in the food, liquid, or air that COULD cause death.

heck no, i'll not drink contaminated water, eat bad food, and breath in dangerous air, i'll not be a passenger in a car with a drunk driver either!. i'll do anything that is common sense to do, and can be done. this is something that can be easily avoided. everyone dies of something, but people don't have to die from water!.

Is this the Howard Hughes syndrome? You don't know if the water is contaminated or the food is bad unless you have it tested. You don't know if the air contains harmful particles or the air bags in the vehicle you are in are operable. In short you can't possibly know about things that are potentially harmful or not.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by iknow:

said by ropeguru:

Then you should stop eating, drinking, and breathing because there might be something in the food, liquid, or air that COULD cause death.

heck no, i'll not drink contaminated water, eat bad food, and breath in dangerous air, i'll not be a passenger in a car with a drunk driver either!. i'll do anything that is common sense to do, and can be done. this is something that can be easily avoided. everyone dies of something, but people don't have to die from water!.

Is this the Howard Hughes syndrome? You don't know if the water is contaminated or the food is bad unless you have it tested. You don't know if the air contains harmful particles or the air bags in the vehicle you are in are operable. In short you can't possibly know about things that are potentially harmful or not.

what? you would get in a car with a driver that is drunk? or eat a sandwich that fell in the toilet? common sense can prevent many disasters. maybe you can't believe the news about "brain-eating amoeba"??. it never happened?. maybe there is something special about you or your water supply that prevents dangerous organisms from affecting you, is so, there are many people just dying to know what it is, so lives can be saved!!.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to Lurch77
Nobody knows, but it's infinitesimal. Or the fear mongers would have already told us all about it.


ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to iknow
said by iknow:

what? you would get in a car with a driver that is drunk? or eat a sandwich that fell in the toilet? common sense can prevent many disasters. maybe you can't believe the news about "brain-eating amoeba"??. it never happened?. maybe there is something special about you or your water supply that prevents dangerous organisms from affecting you, is so, there are many people just dying to know what it is, so lives can be saved!!.

His point is that if you go out to eat, how can you ABSOLUTELY be sure there are no contaminants in the food. When you walk outside, how can you be ABSOLUTELY sure that maybe something hasn't happened close by that could have contaminated the air you are breathing. You cannot for any of these.

You sir live with a totally unrealistic idea about the world and what is around you.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
said by ropeguru:

said by iknow:

what? you would get in a car with a driver that is drunk? or eat a sandwich that fell in the toilet? common sense can prevent many disasters. maybe you can't believe the news about "brain-eating amoeba"??. it never happened?. maybe there is something special about you or your water supply that prevents dangerous organisms from affecting you, is so, there are many people just dying to know what it is, so lives can be saved!!.

His point is that if you go out to eat, how can you ABSOLUTELY be sure there are no contaminants in the food. When you walk outside, how can you be ABSOLUTELY sure that maybe something hasn't happened close by that could have contaminated the air you are breathing. You cannot for any of these.

You sir live with a totally unrealistic idea about the world and what is around you.

and i understand his point. but knowing an easy solution to a dangerous problem, and just ignoring it because they got away with it without any problems so far, is just rolling the dice, i'm sure the people that died in Louisiana didn't think about this either, but it happened to them. and of course, there's legionnaires disease, which is also fatal, with no cure. I believe in changing the things you CAN change, so, my view is not unrealistic, just common sense. letting things happen just because they CAN, or MAY not happen to you is unrealistic. proactive defense is the way to go.

Beezel

join:2008-12-15
Las Vegas, NV
This is only 2 people out of how many living in the US? That makes up what percentage?

True someone has to make those statistics, but I'll give into the odds of it not happening to me. I have a better chance of hitting the lottery or being stuck by lightning. So I can sleep comfy at night knowing the odds are in my favor of not getting amoebas in my water.


jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
reply to iknow
said by iknow:

what? you would get in a car with a driver that is drunk? or eat a sandwich that fell in the toilet?

Depends on the sandwich, and the condition of the toilet.