DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
to stevek1949
Re: Electrical issue questionNot when I use the term. Its a term for something that I want GONE. |
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stevek1949We're not in Kansas anymore Premium Member join:2002-11-13 Virginia Beach, VA |
said by DarkLogix:Not when I use the term. Its a term for something that I want GONE. I hear ya! My sarcasm obviously did not shine through. Some people I work with automatically assume that it means Point Of Sale! I automatically KNOW it is a Piece Of S$#@! |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
Well its actually Piece Of utter f***ing absolute dinosaur Sh**
but the lower case ones are not represented in the acronym POufadS |
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DarkLogix |
to stevek1949
BTW as it is I have a Square D QO 200a panel with 2x 2pole 30amp, 1x 20amp 2pole, 8x 20amp 1pole, 6x 15amp 1pole Breakers sitting waiting for a quote to be installed.
So I hope to have a quote soon, and as no one I work with seems to have an electrical contractor that they can recommend and I don't like feeling like I'm changing what I want to suit a vendor. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ |
AVD
Premium Member
2012-Aug-29 2:55 pm
do yourself a favor and get 3 or 4 electricians to give you a quote. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
Ya well right now I'm not finding many recommendations for a 2nd yet. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ |
AVD
Premium Member
2012-Aug-29 3:01 pm
in my day we looked in the Yellow Pages. These days? maybe "Angies List"? |
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JoelC707 Premium Member join:2002-07-09 Lanett, AL |
to DarkLogix
Yeah try Angies List or Kudzu. I have a friend who lives in Baytown and texted her last night to see if she had any suggestions but shes starting up college and has been VERY busy lately so she hasn't responded yet. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
to AVD
said by AVD:in my day we looked in the Yellow Pages. These days? maybe "Angies List"? Well the yellow pages had 1 ok add and I'd rather find out from someone that's used it rather than some self promoting ad. |
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JoelC707 Premium Member join:2002-07-09 Lanett, AL |
JoelC707
Premium Member
2012-Aug-29 3:20 pm
I don't know about Angies list but Kudzu you can post user reviews on. |
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fcisler Premium Member join:2004-06-14 Riverhead, NY |
to DarkLogix
a couple points:
-Your service is single (or "split") phase. You only see two wires - but the aerial cable you see is the neutral. This service is properly referred to a "3-wire, single-phase, midpoint neutral".
-You do not have 2 phase power. No one does. It's an antiquated technology. A single Leg/Hot is not called a "phase". It is a leg (L) or conductor.
-Since you are having your panel replaced (as you should), they (power co) will upgrade their supply conductors if needed. For anyone else - unless you are tripping your main OR doing a serious remodel - it's an unneeded expense.
-This situation is more dangerous then you realize and you need to give this your priority. If this situation is caused by a bad main breaker (possible corrosion) - this can lead to heat buildup. Heat causes fire. I wouldn't sleep at night with this hazard around. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
1. ok so I used the wrong term, though from a physics perspective the 2 hots are 180 degrees out of phase from one another so when out is positive the other negative thus upping the effective voltage from one to the other.
2. its under ground not aerial. see 1. no need to be redundant.
3. Yes I want the power co to upgrade the lines from the pole to the house (the electrician I've talked to so far doesn't think the power co will do the underground at no cost.) I'm having the panel replaced because 1 its a federal brand, 2. faulty, 3. code violations,
4. need I say more.
5. you think I don't know? Still the electrician hasn't gotten a quote back to me and I still don't want to get ripped off so depending on the quote I'll still get more quotes.
6. the panel is outside on a brick wall so if it does burst into flames it'd have to arc upto the roof (still not good but it is what it is.) |
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leibold MVM join:2002-07-09 Sunnyvale, CA Netgear CG3000DCR ZyXEL P-663HN-51
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said by DarkLogix:1. ok so I used the wrong term, though from a physics perspective the 2 hots are 180 degrees out of phase from one another so when out is positive the other negative thus upping the effective voltage from one to the other. This is exactly the reason why this is not called 2 phase service: the second leg is simply the opposite polarity of the first. 2 phase service did exist at one point (and perhaps still does in rare instances) but true 2 phase service has a 90 degree phase shift. Calling the two legs phases is a common misuse of terminology and most people will understand what is meant. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
180 is still a different phase, 360 would be the same.
at 180 they perfectly double, where as at 90 its ether 50% or some odd number that I forgot the math to work out.
I know 3phase is 120 degrees apart such that 3x 125v phases are only 220v apart and not 250v. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ |
AVD
Premium Member
2012-Aug-29 4:48 pm
please no EE101 |
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Bob4Account deleted join:2012-07-22 New Jersey |
to DarkLogix
You're right. Two phases 180 degrees apart is just as valid of a concept as three phases 120 degrees apart. But the sparkies don't think of it that way, so leave them be. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
to fcisler
ARRG They still haven't gotten a quote to me.
I also called one I found on angie's list so we'll see how they do.
And got a referral from someone at Lowe's (might be worth a call for a 3rd quote.) |
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Apparently they don't want your business. Any sparky worth his salt is going to be able to produce that kind of an estimate in about 30 minutes tops. As nunya always says, "It's a bread and butter job", meaning they have the needed information at their fingertips. Unless there are REALLY unusual circumstances in your case, it should have been done the same day. Find a new one. |
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Bob4Account deleted join:2012-07-22 New Jersey |
to DarkLogix
Or to put it another way: If this is the service they provide when they're trying to get your business, what kind of service will they provide after you pay them and you need them to fix a problem? |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ |
AVD to mattmag
Premium Member
2012-Aug-30 12:10 pm
to mattmag
said by mattmag:Apparently they don't want your business. Any sparky worth his salt is going to be able to produce that kind of an estimate in about 30 minutes tops. As nunya always says, "It's a bread and butter job", meaning they have the needed information at their fingertips. Unless there are REALLY unusual circumstances in your case, it should have been done the same day.
Find a new one. looks like all the work they can handle. |
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JoelC707 Premium Member join:2002-07-09 Lanett, AL |
to Bob4
said by Bob4:Or to put it another way: If this is the service they provide when they're trying to get your business, what kind of service will they provide after you pay them and you need them to fix a problem? Exactly, so much for their "warranty" if you use their panel. Which BTW, what exactly would they be warranting? Bad breakers or faulty panel? Admittedly those do happen and his panel is one of the well-known cases of such but I have to wonder if this company would have really done a warranty replacement had they used that brand many years ago before it was known they were crap. If it's a warranty for their workmanship (based on the fact it's null if you let anyone else work in the panel), shouldn't they warrant that regardless? How are they going to know someone else was in the panel? It's going to be difficult to prove a warranty claim here I imagine so I'm not sure it's really worth it even if he were to stick with this company. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
to Bob4
said by Bob4:Or to put it another way: If this is the service they provide when they're trying to get your business, what kind of service will they provide after you pay them and you need them to fix a problem? Ya that's the feeling I get. Company #2 should be coming over to look at it I think today. Company #3 I need to check again to see if we have them squelched to come over to look at it yet. |
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Can you return the panel that you purchased without penalties to the seller and use a panel offered by the electrical contractor? The only problem you might have is the amount they will mark the panel up. A panel you paid $100.00 for can quickly turn into a $300.00 panel after the electrician marks the cost up. |
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iknow Premium Member join:2012-03-25 |
iknow to Bob4
Premium Member
2012-Aug-30 3:41 pm
to Bob4
said by Bob4:You're right. Two phases 180 degrees apart is just as valid of a concept as three phases 120 degrees apart. But the sparkies don't think of it that way, so leave them be. that's the difference between electronics, and electrical terminology. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
to Mr Matt
I do still have the receipts from lowes for the one I bought and for the breakers I bought for it.
though not sure as I've already removed a number of the blanks and put the breakers in the panel.
It was just over $200 for the panel and another couple for the breakers, and at this point I'd rather they just get me a quote so I can pick which way to go. |
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AVDRespice, Adspice, Prospice Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Onion, NJ |
to Mr Matt
said by Mr Matt:. A panel you paid $100.00 for can quickly turn into a $300.00 panel after the electrician marks the cost up. psst, this is why they want to use their own panel. |
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DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
said by AVD:said by Mr Matt:. A panel you paid $100.00 for can quickly turn into a $300.00 panel after the electrician marks the cost up. psst, this is why they want to use their own panel. Most likely, then they get more profits from over charging for parts. |
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JoelC707 Premium Member join:2002-07-09 Lanett, AL |
to DarkLogix
If you've already removed the blanks then they might not take it back. The breakers they probably will if they don't know they haven't been installed. Keep in mind, even if you don't use it doesn't mean you couldn't resell it to someone else. You might not get full price for it but it's better than letting it sit forever and go unused. |
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iknow Premium Member join:2012-03-25 |
to DarkLogix
why not use the panel you bought??. i didn't see any reason not to in your posts. square d panels were very good at one time, reacting very quickly to overcurrent,not even a spark visible when a wire was shorted together, unlike some others, where you'd get a flame!. then it'd shut down. and having a good track record, unless they changed drastically. |
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nunyaLXI 483 MVM join:2000-12-23 O Fallon, MO ·Charter
1 edit |
to AVD
This generalization is incorrect. For instance, I do not install Square D panels. Don't like them, don't carry the parts on my trucks.
I don't like customers buying their own materials for several reasons. They'll get the wrong thing, they won't get enough, they'll buy the cheapest thing, and/or get something low quality and expect me to honor the warranty with my labor. Plus, they often shortchange themselves by trying to save money. They'll run out to Lowe's Depot, when I buy my stuff from the supply house. Wholesale almost always beats retail. I will install what I service. I don't mark up the price. If you are worried about markups, get a few bids. 3 is usually all you need.
I would allow 48 hours for a bid. If you called and they didn't return your call, they are unprofessional (that goes for any business, not just contractors). It is not uncommon to wait for bid. The price of materials fluctuates greatly these days. If someone demands an "onsite" bid, then I almost have to inflate the price to cover my ass.
I've watched this thread go. Some rotten advice, some good. As mentioned, an FPE panel is a known hazard. I don't work on them either for 1 reason only - liability. Only time I touch them is to carry them to the dumpster.
When you decide on a contractor, they should be licensed, bonded, and insured. They should handle the permitting and inspection. They should handle the co-ordination with the power company. |
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