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antdude
A Matrix Ant
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4 edits

Wireless router suggestions for a big house?

Hello.

I have a client family who will be moving into a big one floor (but on a giant slope hill as if it had two floors) house. About 88 feet seems to be the longest distance from a small room with the new cable modem. This is based on Google Maps' aerial shot: »zimage.com/~ant/temp/88ftLongest ··· Room.jpg (right side/east is a huge hill with trees).

Will an old wireless Linksys WRT54GL router be able to handle this far distance with fast speeds and stability? If not, then which wireless routers can do it? It would be nice to have third party firmware options like Linksys WRT54GL routers. Also, fast speed like gigabits for fast local file transfers between computers in the big house! 100mb/sec is slow these days! Stability, security, and support are important too. The routers doesn't need to be the latest too.

Thank you in advance.


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
Construction of the house also matters. I don;t think anyone here will know with any certainty if one router will do it.

Distances for routers will be similar - some 3rd party firmware will allow increased power - not sure how much extra distance that will gain.

A good consumer router - then experiment with the distance it will provide. Be ready to add in a AP along the line to get a strong enough signal to the end spots you need.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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Dartmouth, NS
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reply to antdude
I take it the house is not wired for ethernet? If not and you cannot simply place APs in different areas of the house check out adaptors.......
a. moca or coax adaptors if there are cable coax runs you can link two areas with.

b. using latest 5 series powerline devices, which could then connect up computers or switches directly as well as APs.

The adaptor route would be my preferred alternative if one did not have wired ethernet.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


antdude
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1 edit
reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

Construction of the house also matters. I don;t think anyone here will know with any certainty if one router will do it.

Distances for routers will be similar - some 3rd party firmware will allow increased power - not sure how much extra distance that will gain.

A good consumer router - then experiment with the distance it will provide. Be ready to add in a AP along the line to get a strong enough signal to the end spots you need.

Maybe this will help?

Building Information:
Year Built Source: Assessor
Ground Level Entry (No Steps)
Stucco Exterior
Concrete Tile Roof
Cathedral-Vaulted Ceilings
Builders Tract Name: Custom (COST)
Full copper plumbing
3,900 feet
Built in 1984
16 rooms (4 bedrooms and bathrooms)
Split-level and contemporary style

Sure, we can try one good wireless router and then expand from there.


antdude
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1 edit
reply to Anav
said by Anav:

I take it the house is not wired for ethernet? If not and you cannot simply place APs in different areas of the house check out adaptors.......
a. moca or coax adaptors if there are cable coax runs you can link two areas with.

b. using latest 5 series powerline devices, which could then connect up computers or switches directly as well as APs.

The adaptor route would be my preferred alternative if one did not have wired ethernet.

No ethernet. It does have coax cables, but those are used for OTA (most rooms) and cable TV (two rooms).

russotto

join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ
reply to antdude
Sometimes wireless just doesn't make sense. One router on the second floor of my townhouse covered the whole house including the basement. But on my current house (a split) the same router doesn't even reach from the upper floor to the middle floor. Only way to know for sure is to try it. I'd be surprised if you could cover that house with one router, and very surprised if you can do it from the point you're suggesting, but strange things happen.

I don't think any gigabit devices are available yet, and an old WRT54GL isn't even 802.11n, so 54Mbps max.


antdude
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1 edit
said by russotto:

Sometimes wireless just doesn't make sense. One router on the second floor of my townhouse covered the whole house including the basement. But on my current house (a split) the same router doesn't even reach from the upper floor to the middle floor. Only way to know for sure is to try it. I'd be surprised if you could cover that house with one router, and very surprised if you can do it from the point you're suggesting, but strange things happen.

I don't think any gigabit devices are available yet, and an old WRT54GL isn't even 802.11n, so 54Mbps max.

Wait, I thought gigabits wireless devices exist now and N was finally approved a couple years ago.


Anav
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1 recommendation

reply to antdude
Not sure what OTA is, but all you need would be one wire from an ethernet wired room to a room(location) where another AP would be ideally situated for additional wifi.

Something like a pair of these for example...
»www.trendnet.com/products/prodde ··· 1&cat=14

For powerline, they can go anywhere you have electrical circuitry.
»www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/p ··· rts/view
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


antdude
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said by Anav:

Not sure what OTA is, but all you need would be one wire from an ethernet wired room to a room(location) where another AP would be ideally situated for additional wifi.

Something like a pair of these for example...
»www.trendnet.com/products/prodde ··· 1&cat=14

For powerline, they can go anywhere you have electrical circuitry.
»www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/p ··· rts/view

Sorry. OTA is over the air for antenna(s/e).

I am going to take my old Linksys WRT54GL router to test its wireless over there to see what's the wireless situation is like.
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.


antdude
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3 edits
reply to antdude
I got the results with an old 15" MacBook Pro and a Linksys WRT54GL wireless router (both were from late 2008).

Kitchen's tables next to windows = 2-4 bars

Downstair/Lower Elevation Family/Living Room:
Couches and table = 1-2 bars ; laggy when ssh to an outside server; a few packet losses to router.
Behind the bar counter = 0 to 2 bars

Room Near Kitchen and Garage = 3-4 bars

Garage = 4 bars

All other rooms look good/high.

So it looks like they will need a network cable/repeater/something to the downstair area. However, the folks did not want network cables so it would have to be wireless to bridge or power cables (getting crowded on the oulets with strips already!).

Here are two previous owners' photographs/photos. of the downstair family/living/den room, with its bar, with the weak wireless feeds:
»i.imgur.com/auseC.jpg (facing the direction where wireless router is; note the kitchen on top left)
»i.imgur.com/Cxulk.jpg


billaustin
they call me Mr. Bill
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North Las Vegas, NV
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I would try using power line adapters to place a second AP in the downstairs living area.

If the power line adapters don't work, use a wireless gaming adapter about halfway in-between to feed a second AP.


antdude
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said by billaustin:

I would try using power line adapters to place a second AP in the downstairs living area.

If the power line adapters don't work, use a wireless gaming adapter about halfway in-between to feed a second AP.

OK. Someone suggested trying NETGEAR Wireless Router - AC 1750 Dual Band Gigabit (R6300). I will try this idea first. If not, then your ideas.

Just in case, what are some good powerline adapters and wireless gaming adapters?


Anav
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Not a bad strategy, you will need another wifi device anyway and thus nothing lost by trying the wifi device solo. Just ensure you use the latest 5000 series by any vendor (and avoid the temptation of buying the heavily discounted 2000 series everyone is trying to pawn off these days - they underperform).

According to smallnetbuilder the first five units in the 80s are all good. (there is a new one higher (netgear) but read the review carefully, it will be just like the the next 5 in practical terms).
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


antdude
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said by Anav:

Not a bad strategy, you will need another wifi device anyway and thus nothing lost by trying the wifi device solo. Just ensure you use the latest 5000 series by any vendor (and avoid the temptation of buying the heavily discounted 2000 series everyone is trying to pawn off these days - they underperform).

According to smallnetbuilder the first five units in the 80s are all good. (there is a new one higher (netgear) but read the review carefully, it will be just like the the next 5 in practical terms).

As the latest wireless router newbie since I haven't kept up with the latest technologies, are you referring to the numbers in "R" like R5000? So R6300 is better and newer? If not, then please kindly explain.


Anav
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Sorry when referring to 5xxx I was referring to the powerline series.
Those of the latest generation, not routers.


Anav
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reply to antdude
The one reason to stay away from the netgear line is their limitation on simulataneous sessions which is about 5 years behind the time..

while the NETGEAR maintained the 4,096 session limit that is common across its WNDR router line.

THe Asus N66U beats all the benchmarks of the netgear at smallnetbuilder.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
said by Anav:

while the NETGEAR maintained the 4,096 session limit that is common across its WNDR router line.

THe Asus N66U beats all the benchmarks of the netgear at smallnetbuilder.

The Asus N66U does not support Multi-User MIMO which the R6300 does and does a really good job of it SOOOOO Anav See Profile take that in your pipe and smoke it.

With Multi-User MIMO each user gets more than enough simultaneous sessions to accomplish stuff the "average" large family would participate in and that includes a LOT of real time applications running simultaneously

smallnetbuilder does a nice job with their reviews --- but IMO REAL life in the field experience trumps anything smallnetbuilder put in print. And real life experience that I have had with 2 installs of the R6300 where client satisfaction is outstanding speaks volumes for the Netgear product.

BTW, ASUS have released their version of the AC router [RT-AC66U] which does support Multi-User MIMO and can be purchased Newegg. I have tested it in my Lab but not in the Field. In my Lab far too many issues so far.

CNET Review of the RT-AC66U
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


Anav
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Yeah small net builders also reviewed the AC66U and said it was not any better than current models.

As for multi mimo users, I must admit, as to having no clue to what your talking about, but all I know as me, a single user I can easily clog up a router that only permits 4096 sessions.


antdude
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reply to antdude

Reflectors for antenna(s/e)?

In a newgroup thread reply, someone suggested a reflector like »802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Mi ··· tor.html for the router's antenna(e/s). Would this be a good idea?

Thank you in advnace.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
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join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to Anav

Re: Wireless router suggestions for a big house?

said by Anav:

but all I know as me, a single user I can easily clog up a router that only permits 4096 sessions.

I do not permit any type of torrent traffic nor would I recommend torrent traffic --- so while you are heavy on torrents you deserve exactly what you get.

If you want to learn what Multi-User MIMO is read THIS
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
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join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON
reply to antdude

Re: Reflectors for antenna(s/e)?

said by antdude:

In a newgroup thread reply, someone suggested a reflector like »802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Mi ··· tor.html for the router's antenna(e/s). Would this be a good idea?

Give it a try and see what happens. IMO your WRT54GL is very old technology and completely outdated.

BTW, you have far too many threads on the go ...


antdude
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said by mozerd:

said by antdude:

In a newgroup thread reply, someone suggested a reflector like »802.11junk.com/jeffl/antennas/Mi ··· tor.html for the router's antenna(e/s). Would this be a good idea?

Give it a try and see what happens. IMO your WRT54GL is very old technology and completely outdated...

Ah OK. I will go get a new NETGEAR Wireless Router - AC 1750 Dual Band Gigabit (R6300) router and then go from there. However, I was told that this router has weaker range than my old Linksys WRT54GL.


mozerd
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If placed properly like I mentioned to you in another thread the R6300 range will be outstanding ... It's all in the placement ... If its not places properly then it's a guessing game.


antdude
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said by mozerd:

If placed properly like I mentioned to you in another thread the R6300 range will be outstanding ... It's all in the placement ... If its not places properly then it's a guessing game.

Hmm, someone else suggested that R6300 is weaker than a Linksys WRT54GL. Oh well, I will try this router first.


mozerd
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Your iPhone 4S and if you have Apple Mac's they will love the R6300 ... If you have windows laptops and windows desktops and the wireless clients are modern like the Apple stuff they also will fall in love with the R6300 ... However if your windows clients are old technology then the R6300 will disappoint.


antdude
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said by mozerd:

Your iPhone 4S and if you have Apple Mac's they will love the R6300 ... If you have windows laptops and windows desktops and the wireless clients are modern like the Apple stuff they also will fall in love with the R6300 ... However if your windows clients are old technology then the R6300 will disappoint.

Is XP Pro. SP3 old?


mozerd
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It's not the age of the OS ... It's the age of the hardware which contains a wireless client. Find out which client you're windows XP system is using THEN I could tell you if it's modern or OLD and very tired.


antdude
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said by mozerd:

It's not the age of the OS ... It's the age of the hardware which contains a wireless client. Find out which client you're windows XP system is using THEN I could tell you if it's modern or OLD and very tired.

Ah OK. So far, only laptops/notebooks (Apple MacBooks -- oldest is from 2008 that I used for testing) will be in the far away places. Old desktops will be in nearby to the room with the wireless router. Since this old MacBook Pro is over four years old and starting to physically fall apart, he will get a brand new one in a few months.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
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When you hook up the R6300 make sure to get the latest firmware update from Netgear ... They made some important changes that enhance performance for older technology like you have to deal with. you will need to spend some time learning the ins and outs to find out how to get the router to get the latest firmware updates automatically.


antdude
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said by mozerd:

When you hook up the R6300 make sure to get the latest firmware update from Netgear ... They made some important changes that enhance performance for older technology like you have to deal with. you will need to spend some time learning the ins and outs to find out how to get the router to get the latest firmware updates automatically.

I always get the latest firmwares when they are available.

I don't like those automatic upgrades espeically with firmwares. I hope I can disable and let myself manually upgrade whenever I want to. I assume upgrades are easy to do from local files like in the past with Linksys and very old Netgear routers (had a RT314 model).
--
Ant @ AQFL.net and AntFarm.ma.cx. Please do not IM/e-mail me for technical support. Use this forum or better, »community.norton.com ! Disclaimer: The views expressed in this posting are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of my employer.