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MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to rbnice1

Re: New home build framing question.

1) Take an 8' long level and place it right up against the concrete to see if the top of the foundation wall is poured level (+/- 1/4 inch). If it isn't, then that's the reason for the kerf cuts. They should have used self-leveling grout formed in the un-level area to fix it before the bottom plate was bolted down.

If they don't replace the band board, take some 2x6 on the inside of the band board and place it vertically across the kerf cut and glue & nail it in place to hold both sides of the cut board together. Alternatively, look in the Simpson Strong-Tie catalog for binding plates - similar to the ones used to hold trusses together. Since they are thin you can place them on both the interior & exterior of the kerf cut.


kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to wth

said by wth:

Is there the possibility that the rim joists were cut because the concrete is not not level, but dips down from the corner?

More likely there's a crown on the band board and they were too lazy to get a straight one. Around here they use the micro-lams as band board so they're right on.

As far as the bolts go, they require them every four feet here.

They are probably using 2X4s or 2X6s for the sill plate and are easier for the bolt to miss the board. I always use 2X8s. It costs a little more, but when a new house cost $250,000 it's negligible.


08034016
Hallo lisa Aus Amerika
Premium
join:2001-08-31
Byron, GA
reply to rbnice1

Both of the Authors Pic's WOW just WOW what Idiots...,

I would have them redo that mess Correctly, no way i would Accept that Common Sense.
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hdman
Flt Rider
Premium
join:2003-11-25
Appleton, WI
Reviews:
·exede by ViaSat

2 recommendations

reply to rbnice1

If the beam was that bad to begin with, the framers should have had the lumber yard bring out new ones. When I build, I keep the lumber covered AND banded for the whole project, so that it does NOT bow. When I am done for the day, I go to the stacked lumber, and tighten the shipping bands and then tarp the lumber.

As far as the sill bolts, those notches tell me the bolts are in the wrong place, which is why I do NOT use bolts. I use a thin layer of foam, PL, then I place green teat sill on that then drill holes into the concrete and the sill and then use drive pins. NOTHING holds like that, and, I get a good seal that will never rot. I never trust ANY concrete person to have the bolts in the right place, so I tell them to NOT use any. Drive pins are awesome for me....

Good luck, but I would watch these guys like a hawk!!!! It appears to me they don't have a good relationship with the lumber yard or the other contractors on the job. My lumber yard KNOWS to send me straight lumber or it will come back....
--
The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!!


Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online

said by hdman:

My lumber yard KNOWS to send me straight lumber or it will come back....

Maybe the price was discounted.


rbnice1

join:2000-12-16
Fenton, MO
reply to rbnice1

Well they are replacing the board and will fix the shims. They will be mortaring in the main beam and shims so the shim sizing is fine.

I will be watching them closely. I have talked with them and they are actually pretty nice guys and seem to be hard working. They have all the external walls up and they are actually all lvl and sq to the floor.

So far I havent seen anything else that looked wrong.

But if i see something else wacky I will be posting about it.


Hellrazor
Bah Humbug

join:2002-02-02
Abyss, PA
Reviews:
·Service Electric..

said by rbnice1:

Well they are replacing the board and will fix the shims. They will be mortaring in the main beam and shims so the shim sizing is fine.

Make sure they put proper shims in place. Beat them with a framing hammer if they try to put a brick or some other crap like that under it and throw mortar over it.


rbnice1

join:2000-12-16
Fenton, MO
reply to rbnice1

So..... They haven't done much work do to the hurricane working its way through the midwest. Which in this case is a good thing. Its less they will have to redo.

They still havent replaced the beam boards that have all the kerfs and now they have walls built on top of them so I guess the GC just ignored me. I will be making them gusset now from the back because we will have no other choice. It will take them 4 times as long then it would have taken to just fix it when I told them to but what ever its just going to eat into there bottom line not mine.

And while I was there today I looked at the joists they put in for the send floor and I am not even sure you are allowed to do what they did by code, much less good practice. Some of the joists are like 1 inch from being flush with the bottom of the hanger. Anyone know if this is even allowed?




kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter

Find out when the inspector comes out and have him justify why he's passing sloppy workmanship. Better yet if you have an architect on the job have him justify it. Take plenty of pictures.

That big o' gap sure is going to give your drywall a nice even ceiling too. Looks you got some good o' hillbillies for framers ...



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to rbnice1

Please tell me those joists aren't nailed in yet.
Also, check out the top plate on the corner in the background. Why not let those into each other?

Unfortunately, being a nice guy might not work. Nice guys get walked on.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


Zach1
Premium
join:2006-11-26
NW Minnesota

1 recommendation

reply to rbnice1

WTF?!?!?!? Is your job some sort of framer daycare?
--
Zach



rbnice1

join:2000-12-16
Fenton, MO
reply to nunya

They are nailed into the joist hanger......

Im not sure what you mean about the top plate on the corner.

And nice guy walked out when I saw they still hadnt fixed the problems I told him about Monday.

I already have tried calling the owner and we will be talking before I go back to work next Thursday. As well as a meeting at the house so I can show him why I am thinking of canceling our contract if it isnt fixed and fixed right.



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

Wow, it's only getting worse. Joists absolutely must sit all the way down in the joist hanger. What they have done is no different than not using a joist hanger at all. Also the double top plates on a wall must overlap. Your corner there have both top plates butting up to each other, one should overlap the other.

It is extremely common when you are using dimensional lumber for the joists to all be slightly different heights. In order to make the floor level you end up needing the bottom of the joists at different levels so the tops are all in line with each other. This is why every competent framing crew I have ever seen puts the joists in first and gets them where they want them, and then they come back and put on the joist hangers. Your crew obviously put the hangers on first which is a real rookie mistake. Has this framing crew ever built a house before?



08034016
Hallo lisa Aus Amerika
Premium
join:2001-08-31
Byron, GA
reply to rbnice1

Excuse me for saying so i would have Fired that stupid f*** that built your home and billed him the repairs.Also that home inspectors boss would be out there after i get done he would get fired.

Its Common sense have someone Monitor this Constrution and have them stop it and say "take that CRAP DOWN AT YOUR COST"
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rbnice1

join:2000-12-16
Fenton, MO
reply to Ken

Can you point out on the pic what you are talking about on the double top plates, and post a small pic showing what it should look like?



nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting


seederjed
Premium
join:2005-02-28
Norcross, GA

They were letting framers use nailing plates to join walls instead of overlapping the top plates before I got out of construction a few years ago.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to nunya

This is where he is talking about



round_toit
Premium
join:2005-02-01
Pensacola, FL

1 edit
reply to rbnice1

You do not have to have a level to check basic workmanship. Take a long piece of string and tie it off so it goes on top of the floor joists and run it the entire length (perpendicular to the direction of the joists. If they are all at the same height, the string will touch all of them with no space showing. Same thing checking the studs. Run the string down the wall perpendicular to the studs. String should just touch all of them. Small errors now get to be bigger errors with sheetrock, door installation, molding, etc.

edit: spelling



rbnice1

join:2000-12-16
Fenton, MO
reply to robbin

ahh thanks for pointing that out. It makes since to me that you would stagger them. Not sure why they didnt but we will find out Tuesday morning.

as far as stud height I will have to get a ladder out there to check it all out. I have a lvl and the outer walls are all lvl. 1 of the innter walls is slightly off lvl but only like 1/4 inch over a 9 foot run, so good enough for a non load bearing.


BrewBoy5

join:2002-04-28

It's fairly clear that the joists are not nailed yet(to a trained eye), before you complain I would confirm what you think you see. As far as the top plates not overlapping, ideally they would overlap, but is it a big deal in a interior non structural location ,which this appears to be, not so much. As far as the kerfs in the rim board, i have no idea why, however the structural function of the rim board is compression and the kerfs would not affect compression to much. The shimming under the beam is crap if that is the end product, however in my experience, the framer shims it to where it is supposed to be and the contractor has it properly grouted and secured. Before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.


AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

said by BrewBoy5:

Before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.

Sounds like they already did talk to them, and they were ignored...

»Re: New home build framing question.

...
Self Righteous Jack Wagon


rbnice1

join:2000-12-16
Fenton, MO
reply to BrewBoy5

You are correct looking closer they are not nailed yet. While I agree the kerfs are not a structural issue and if there was a kerf in a 20 foot board I wouldnt bitch. My problem is there are 5 in a 20 foot board. The 2x10 rim board they used really should have been scrapped.

The main beam and shims will be grouted so the shims are fine as long as they stack them right.

As far as the self righteous jack wagons here.... They are answering my questions as I ask them. I can hardly complain about them. :P



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

1 recommendation

reply to BrewBoy5

said by BrewBoy5:

As far as the top plates not overlapping, ideally they would overlap, but is it a big deal in a interior non structural location ,which this appears to be, not so much.

I can't even begin to imagine how you could look at a wall that has a beam carrying the 2nd floor sitting directly on top of it, and somehow deem that a non structural location. That corner of those two walls is very clearly a load bearing wall, and those top plates must be overlapped. Top plates must always overlap it doesn't matter if the wall is load bearing or not. This isn't a concept that's only done sometimes, it's done every single time no exceptions. The purpose of the overlap is to lock the entire building together, whether that particular wall is load bearing or not is irrelevant.

said by BrewBoy5:

Before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.

One of the problems with this forum is we have a lot of people who have no experience whatsoever in a field but they jump right in and give bad advice. The part of your post I quoted above would be a good example of that. I personally have extensive framing experience having framed several new construction houses, and dozens more in partial remodel situations. I am completely qualified to look at these framing pictures and point out things that are wrong or explain how things should be done.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by Ken:

One of the problems with this forum is we have a lot of people who have no experience whatsoever in a field but they jump right in and give bad advice.

+1

BrewBoy5

join:2002-04-28
reply to Ken

Bad advice??? Really Ken?? Then why do mills make 94 1/8 precut studs? Let me answer that for you. Because in interior non load bearing situations double top plates are not required, (In many jurisdictions). So my question is, Ken, with that new knowledge, go ahead and google that if you want, how is one supposed to lap the plates" every single time no exceptions."? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Secondly, with your experience of framing "several" houses, you should have looked at that picture and realized that is most likely a stairwell wall, the question should be asked if that is the case and if so is that wall going to be cut down to the angle of the stair? If that is the case would it not make more sense not to lap those plates?
Well look at that!! Something Ken did not think about!

And I stand by what I said, before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.



VioletVenom
Lets go Gators
Premium
join:2002-01-02
Gainesville, FL

1 recommendation

I've been a carpenter for over 20 years, every phase of residential construction. I've followed Ken and nunya's advice in these forums for a long time. I've never seen an instance where they don't know what they are talking about. In this case they are right on the money (per usual). Trolling this forum isn't helping the OP with their problems.


BrewBoy5

join:2002-04-28
reply to BrewBoy5

Here is the code for top plates Ken, 2308.9.2.1, 2009 IBC which further states that single plates are allowed on bearing and exterior walls when joists / rafters fall within one inch of a stud. So again how does one go about overlapping the plates "every single time no exceptions."?

If you don't mind I'm going to use your quote.
One of the problems with this forum is we have a lot of people who have no experience whatsoever in a field but they jump right in and give bad advice. I personally have extensive framing experience having framed several HUNDRED new construction houses.



Cho Baka
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

Neither Ken nor anyone else is advocating building to a minimum spec as you have provided.

In the photos shown, it is very clear that what was done is shoddy/halfassed.

I'm surprised anyone would stick up for workmanship like this.
Would you build your own house like this?

--
The talented hawk speaks French.



Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY
reply to VioletVenom

said by VioletVenom:

I've been a carpenter for over 20 years, every phase of residential construction. I've followed Ken and nunya's advice in these forums for a long time. I've never seen an instance where they don't know what they are talking about. In this case they are right on the money (per usual). Trolling this forum isn't helping the OP with their problems.

+1 They certainly provide clear and concise information. As stated elsewhere they provide information for doing something that not only meets code but exceeds it. Something everyone should strive for instead of trying to get by with the minimum.