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disconnected

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[RANT] Commercial Electric 4 in. Brushed Nickel Recessed LED FAI

I am EXTREMELY disappointed in this LED lamp as of tonight, less than a year since its installation.

I bought four of these to install in the newly remodeled soffets. Given that the soffets are 20' above ground, I needed a 100% reliable solution that would not need relamping every 20 years. I chose these LED lamps for their 50,000-hour life span.

They worked great for the two (total) hours that they worked. Dim nicely, and were bright. But this evening I turned them on and discovered that one of the four had burned out. Uh-oh. This means a full day to build scaffolding to get up to that location, then cutting the silicone rubber sealant I placed around the bezel of the unit to prevent water from getting inside if sprayed with garden hose. This is extremely disappointing. I would have had another 20 years of service between lamp changes had I stuck with halogen PAR floods I used since the 1960s. I've only changed them out once. Figured (wrongly) that the LEDs would last hundreds of years with only 2 hours use per year.

THerefore, I DON'T recommend these fixtures. Bad design evidently.

»www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R···ArqllRcR


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT

Re: [RANT] Commercial Electric 4 in. Brushed Nickel Recessed LED

There is no such thing as 100% reliable.
The life of LED lamps is incorrectly assumed to be 50,000hrs. That is the MTBF, the average time it takes a unit to become unusable (either completely fail or degrade beyond the normal specified parameters). AVERAGE is the key word... In theory if half of units last 0 and half last 100,000hrs then the MTBF is 50,000...


disconnected

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I know, but still it's deceptive. I have other LED lights, mostly the screw in kind, and none of those have failed. I chose LEDs because I didn't want to have to be faced with building scaffolding to replace the lamp again anytime soon. Should have stuck with the halogen bulbs that I was changing out every 20 years, their average life span in my situation..


SYNACK
Just Firewall It
Premium,Mod
join:2001-03-05
Venice, CA
reply to disconnected
said by disconnected :


THerefore, I DON'T recommend these fixtures. Bad design evidently.

So you are basing your entire review on a single burned out lamp that failed very early. That is unrealistic and statistically very questionable. LEDs have many electronic components that can either fail early (if faulty) or last basically forever. That's why they have a 3 year warranty: to catch the faulty ones. I got one faulty LED lamp (did not work out-of-the-box) out of ~20 so far and the store exchanged it. That does not mean all others will fail soon.

You said that you silicone sealed around them. Could it be that you failed to allow adequate cooling? One thing LEDs don't like is heat, and judging from the massive heat sink on them, the excess heat needs to be able to quickly go somewhere else. Sure they use only 9W, but they need to stay very cool to remain healthy. Did the cans project into a attic that gets very hot in summer?


disconnected

@snet.net
In my book, if a gun explodes in your face and kills you, it's not a reliable gun. It's the same thing with a lamp in a mission critical application. Even one failure is a disaster.
Silicon sealer is to keep the water spray from a garden hose from getting into the fixture. It does not affect air flow, because it is already inside a closed soffet. And the lights are only used for a few minutes while guests are entering/leaving, then turned off. They don't have time to get warm. If they can't withstand summer temps, how to LEDs work in Texas or Arizona, where it's 120 degrees in the shade?


SYNACK
Just Firewall It
Premium,Mod
join:2001-03-05
Venice, CA
said by disconnected :

It's the same thing with a lamp in a mission critical application. Even one failure is a disaster.

Expecting near 100% is simply not reasonable. It cannot be done at the price you paid for it. It is not fair to base a review on insufficient data and unrealistic expectations.

Obviously if you need mission critical performance, you need to buy from a source that does very extensive testing on each unit at all stages of assembly. Prepare to pay $500 for each.
Or you could buy 3x more lamps and do fatigue testing on the bench for a few weeks before installation.

I don't understand the gun analogy. Makes no sense in this context.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to disconnected
said by disconnected :

It's the same thing with a lamp in a mission critical application.

Mission critical light applications use long-life (15,000hrs) incandescent bulbs and have redundancy.


disconnected

@snet.net
reply to SYNACK
I'm not expecting 100%, but I AM expecting better than 75%, which is what I got. 1 in 4 lamps failed here. If I had 100 lamps and one failed, maybe not so bad, but 1 in 4 is a poor performance. I paid nearly $80 each at the time I bought them, which is a lot of money for a lamp like this. At that price, I expect reliability. Their performance is what I'd expect from a $10 lamp of this sort.
The gun analogy points out that some things can be made reasonably priced and are 100% reliable.


SYNACK
Just Firewall It
Premium,Mod
join:2001-03-05
Venice, CA
You got 75%. A sampling of four is statistically not sufficient to conclude that 75% are bad in general. I also assume that you inspected the lamp after it "failed" to exclude problems in wiring and in the socket.

I am not aware of any gun that is 100% reliable. Can you point me to a source that shows relevant data to confirm your statement? (Then multiply that with the mental stability of the gun owner and you get something that's even further from 100% )


disconnected

@snet.net
The box that the lamp comes in proudly states "25 year lifespan". To me, that means it should last 25 years, not 2 hours.

I shoot lots of types of firearms and, other than some dud ammo, I've never had a gun malfunction totally. After hundreds of thousands of rounds, never had a gun explode in my face. If guns were as unreliable as these lights, I would not be here today.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT

1 recommendation

said by disconnected :

The box that the lamp comes in proudly states "25 year lifespan". To me, that means it should last 25 years, not 2 hours.

Yes, if you buy 1million such lights you will see that they average 25yrs life. Some will die after 1hr, some after 1 day, some after 1 yr and some may last 100yrs.
It's not a guaranteed life, it's an AVERAGE life.


disconnected

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If I put on my engineering hat, yes, I agree, that's largely how MTBF is calculated--an average. But the lawyer side of me says a product ought to perform up to the advertised claims.


Grumpy
Premium
join:2001-07-28
NW CT
Reviews:
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Reminds me of a Panasonic fluorescent globe. The box strongly suggested 10,000 hours, but did not go as far as to guarantee that life span. It lasted around 2,000. A call to Panasonic yielded as much as "Tough luck for you Bub." I replied: "At the least, now I understand what your slogan 'Slightly ahead of our time' means. I almost took the time to document the bulb box's half truth and send it to Consumer Reports for that section of the magazine that shows misleading advertising, but didn't get around to it.


disconnected

@snet.net
I have a replacement fixture on 'burn in' now for the past week. As soon as I finish painting my north wall and can take down the scaffolding, I will erect scaffolding on the west side and replace the defective unit. This is time I could better spend on more urgent matters.