dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
8300
share rss forum feed


HackedWEP

@videotron.ca

[Eng] Router was WEP cracked. $600 in overages. What can we do?

Synopsis:

One of my roommates switched the router from WPA to WEP a few months ago. Sometime around mid July, the router's WEP key was cracked, the login/password changed, and immense torrenting was begun. We have the 70Mbit TGV package.

Overage amounts to nearly $600.

We have about as much proof of it being WEP hacked as you can get. The usage pattern is hugely abnormal, with discrete start/stop dates that any idiot would identify.

Videotron refuses to compromise on the amount.

What is our recourse here? Can we take this to small claims against Videotron? Anyone have experience with this?

We live in the downtown area near Lucien L'Allier.


ns1225

join:2010-12-30
Montreal, QC
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico

Re: [Eng] Router was WEP cracked. $600 in overages. What can we

I have no personal experience dealing with such a problem but what I would do is call back a few times, get different CS agents, and see if one will negotiate to bring it down to an acceptable flat fee. Or let you retroactively add usage blocks. Reason with them that this has never happened, using historical usage data or whatever and see if they are nice.

I don't think they'll remove the charge completely so your better plan on moving to an independent ISP.

Problem with courts is legally they're allowed to charge for usage above the limit and your problem isn't with Videotron but the hacker, or roommate...


pducharme

join:2010-06-29
Sherbrooke, QC
reply to HackedWEP

I would contact videotron on twitter, they are prettygood to try keeping the good image when exposed publicly. Explain the situation in couple of tweets



En Enfer
This account has been compromised

join:2003-07-25
Montreal, QC
kudos:4
reply to HackedWEP

On a justice matter, Videotron have the upper hand.

quote:
19. As of the Internet access activation date, the Customer shall be responsible for: (i) any use he may make of the long-distance services (applicable to dial-up Internet access where the Customer requests access from an area outside his local calling area); (ii) any use exceeding the use limits described in Section 18 hereof; and (iii) any use of any other Videotron Service, such as the illico.tv Service, including download of on-demand content.
Source: »support.videotron.com/residentia···nditions

In other words, they provide the service to your home, you cannot share it with your neighbours, and you are responsible for any data going out of the Ethernet port.

You can call SAC and contest the fee. Not everyone can afford paying a 600$ bill in the same month. AFAIK, best you can get is paying half the overage fees.

Still, what's the idea of paying 83$/month for TGV 60 with a 150 Gb cap (1.50$/Gb when going over) when you can have Electronicbox 30Mb/2Mb with a 250GB for 49,95$ (0.50$/Gb when going over)?
See: »[Internet] Comparaison des IISP par câble au Québec
(The list also includes 60 Mbps tiers, dunno if it's still offered)
--
Tell your children over dinner, "Due to the economy, we are going to have to let one of you go."


Cesco
Electronic Box toddler
Premium
join:2009-01-28
Montreal, QC
reply to HackedWEP

Just to make sure: did you slap your roomie upside the head for downgrading the router's security to WEP (unless there was valid reason for doing so)??


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to HackedWEP

said by HackedWEP :

Videotron refuses to compromise on the amount.

What is our recourse here?

Been there ~10 years ago when overage was $20/GB and it took about four hours of arguing on the phone to get them to drop 2/3 of the charges.

In my case though, the reason I went over is because Videotron had moved their usage reporting page without disabling/redirecting the old version of the page to the new one so i was dosing my downloads based on bogus usage data.

So if it took me four hours to get only 2/3 of charges lifted when Videotron definitely deserved some/much of the blame, you are likely unconditionally screwed if you told them you had a practically open AP.


HackedWEP

@videotron.ca
reply to HackedWEP

To respond to the questions raised so far, the roommate is not very technically savvy and believed switching speed/encryption from N/WPA to G/WEP would improve his connection stability. He says it did, but that's beside the point.

We've researched this and would probably make a small claims case against Videotron based on Quebec's consumer protection act, specifically Section 8 which reads thus:

"8. The consumer may demand the nullity of a contract or a reduction in his obligations thereunder where the disproportion between the respective obligations of the parties is so great as to amount to exploitation of the consumer or where the obligation of the consumer is excessive, harsh or unconscionable."

Our case before the justice would be that allowing such an overage charge to blindly accumulate and not notifying us of very abnormal and excessive usage, even though it was within their power well before it reached $600, is harsh and unconscionable, and the overage should be reduced to something more reasonable (preferrably cost, given the circumstances). A bank would have called us about going over our credit limit on a stolen credit card long before it reached $600.

We will keep going the CS route for now.

We would still be very interested to hear from anyone that has successfully disputed such a large overage and had it reduced.



fredbisard

@charter.com
reply to Cesco

said by Cesco:

Just to make sure: did you slap your roomie upside the head for downgrading the router's security to WEP (unless there was valid reason for doing so)??

slap hell,
knock the holy dog s**t out of him!!


hey

@videotron.ca
reply to InvalidError

tu avais le temps d’être responsable et d'aller voir ta consommation sur le site web, c'est ton problème. En plus, sur l'espace client de Videotron, tu peux demander à être averti par email et message texte rendu à 50% ou 75% ou 90% et même toute cocher afin d’être aviser si tu télécharge trop. Tout était écrit dans les conditions, alors tu es responsable à 100%, donc paye et change ton password wifi et met le en WPA2.


junivelli

join:2011-03-07
reply to HackedWEP

Im not a big fan of videotron, however it was your responsibility to secure your router, so they wont do anytime to help you out and if you dont pay them they will close your account and screw your credit score, the best thing to do its you pay them,cancel your account then swap ISP go with electronicbox or distributel (unlimited) and like Enfer said

quote:
what's the idea of paying 83$/month for TGV 60 with a 150 Gb cap (1.50$/Gb when going over) when you can have Electronicbox 30Mb/2Mb with a 250GB for 49,95$ (0.50$/Gb when going over)?


RomVL

@videotron.ca
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by HackedWEP :

Videotron refuses to compromise on the amount.

What is our recourse here?

Been there ~10 years ago when overage was $20/GB and it took about four hours of arguing on the phone to get them to drop 2/3 of the charges.

In my case though, the reason I went over is because Videotron had moved their usage reporting page without disabling/redirecting the old version of the page to the new one so i was dosing my downloads based on bogus usage data.

So if it took me four hours to get only 2/3 of charges lifted when Videotron definitely deserved some/much of the blame, you are likely unconditionally screwed if you told them you had a practically open AP.

That's two different issue here... Videotron changed configuration which lead to an overusage for you. Unfortunately, the probleme of HackedWEP as not been caused by Videotron in any way... his roommate decided to use a flawed security protocole (WEP) that can be hacked in 30 seconds...

For your issue, fill a complaint, or at least talk to a supervisor. Maybe they can reduce the amount of the bill, but don't dream about all charge being credited since the fault is all yours... You can also check with your insurance, many home insurance cover those kind of thing...


HackedWEP

@videotron.ca
reply to hey

Discuter et disputer la question de la responsabilité ne m'interesse pas. Videotron ont les moyens de communiquer l'usage abnormel avec leur clientele, mais ils refusent, pour des raisons inconnus (mais devinables, quand-meme).

Je cherche les experiences des gens qui ont poursuivis une disputation avec Videotron pour l'usage excessif, et ont gagné leur cas. C'est tout. Merci pour votre comprehension.



Hyrules

join:2006-07-19
Gatineau, QC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Videotron
·ELECTRONICBOX
·FreePhoneLine
reply to HackedWEP

J'ai déjà réussi à gagné contre videotron à ce niveau il y a plusieurs année en disant que j'était pas à la maison cette journée la. Mais aujourd'hui si tu réussi à les faire changer d'idée tu est chanceux. Un bon conseil d'un tech en informatique n'utilise plus le WEP. C'est pas sécure du tout. Ca prend 2 minutes à cracker. Utilise WPA2 personnel et TKIP+AES ou un ou l'autre de ces 2. En plus quand tu entre ta clé de sécurité utilise pas des nom ou des mots commun ou des dates. Utilise des symboles ?&*$/% des chiffres et substitue des lettre par des chiffre comme maison devient m41$0n.
--
- Technicien en informatique [A+]
- Chasseur d'orage


GuiGQc

join:2012-02-22
Gatineau, QC
reply to HackedWEP

Ce que tu dois comprendre, c'est que ce n'est pas de la faute à Vidéotron. Et tu dois être conscient de ça quand tu les appelle.

Tu leur dis: regarde, c'est de ma faute, mais 600$ c'est excessif étant donné que ce n'est pas moi qui l'a utilisé. Je vais m'assurer que la sécurité en place sera nécessaire à l'avenir. Donc charge moi juste la moitié maudite gang de crosseur, sinon je change pour Ebox.


zadigre

join:2006-10-02
Montreal, QC
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX

said by GuiGQc:

Ce que tu dois comprendre, c'est que ce n'est pas de la faute à Vidéotron. Et tu dois être conscient de ça quand tu les appelle.

Tu leur dis: regarde, c'est de ma faute, mais 600$ c'est excessif étant donné que ce n'est pas moi qui l'a utilisé. Je vais m'assurer que la sécurité en place sera nécessaire à l'avenir. Donc charge moi juste la moitié maudite gang de crosseur, sinon je change pour Ebox.

la menace de changer de fournisseur n'est pas très bonne.
la personne devrait quand même payer... sinon vidéotron ne voudra pas faire le transfert de l'abonnement chez le revendeur.
--
SpeedCable Extreme 60 avec Electronic Box!

GuiGQc

join:2012-02-22
Gatineau, QC

J'ai pas dit de partir sans payer. J'ai suggérer que s'ils ne veulent pas couper la facture en 2, de changer de fournisseur pour eBox



news

@videotron.ca

»www.digitalhome.ca/2011/01/1800-···network/



news

@videotron.ca

»stopthecap.com/2011/01/06/videot···my-rent/



JEDI

join:2005-04-11
Longueuil
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to HackedWEP

said by HackedWEP :

Discuter et disputer la question de la responsabilité ne m'interesse pas. Videotron ont les moyens de communiquer l'usage abnormel avec leur clientele, mais ils refusent, pour des raisons inconnus (mais devinables, quand-meme).

Je ne suis pas un fan de Vidéotron mais cette fois je ne crois pas qu'ils ont tort. C'est ta responsabilité et Vidéotron te fournit les moyens nécessaires pour vérifier ta consommation toi-même avec la page web en plus des alertes par e-mail quand tu atteins certains niveaux de consommation. Désolé mais si tu n'a rien fait en ignorant tout ça, c'est uniquement de ta faute et non celle de Vidéotron.

Vu que Vidéotron a mis en place tous les outils nécessaires à ta disposition, je ne vois pas pourquoi ils devraient espionner individuellement la consommation des gens pour trouver des variations. Ce n'est pas en rejettant toujours la responsabilité sur les autres qu'on avance, tu dois accepter les conséquences de tes gestes (quoique c'est plutôt ton coloc dans ce cas qui est à blâmer).


ohmer

join:2003-08-06
Quebec, QC
kudos:1
reply to HackedWEP

C'est peut être pas la faute de Vidéotron, mais common, ça n'a pas coûté 600$ fournir le service. Ils pourraient être accommodant pour une première "offense". Ça leur coûterait rien et pourrait probablement éviter de perdre le client frustré qui va partir vers la concurence.


junivelli

join:2011-03-07
reply to zadigre

said by zadigre:

said by GuiGQc:

Ce que tu dois comprendre, c'est que ce n'est pas de la faute à Vidéotron. Et tu dois être conscient de ça quand tu les appelle.

Tu leur dis: regarde, c'est de ma faute, mais 600$ c'est excessif étant donné que ce n'est pas moi qui l'a utilisé. Je vais m'assurer que la sécurité en place sera nécessaire à l'avenir. Donc charge moi juste la moitié maudite gang de crosseur, sinon je change pour Ebox.

la menace de changer de fournisseur n'est pas très bonne.
la personne devrait quand même payer... sinon vidéotron ne voudra pas faire le transfert de l'abonnement chez le revendeur.

Il a juste a aller chez bell, ou autre FAII qui utilise les lignes de bell,

GuiGQc

join:2012-02-22
Gatineau, QC
reply to ohmer

said by ohmer:

C'est peut être pas la faute de Vidéotron, mais common, ça n'a pas coûté 600$ fournir le service. Ils pourraient être accommodant pour une première "offense". Ça leur coûterait rien et pourrait probablement éviter de perdre le client frustré qui va partir vers la concurence.

Ouais exactement pourquoi j'avais suggérer d'appeler pour faire couper ça de moitié


JEDI

join:2005-04-11
Longueuil
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to ohmer

said by ohmer:

C'est peut être pas la faute de Vidéotron, mais common, ça n'a pas coûté 600$ fournir le service. Ils pourraient être accommodant pour une première "offense". Ça leur coûterait rien et pourrait probablement éviter de perdre le client frustré qui va partir vers la concurence.

C'est sûr mais si Vidéotron chargeait ce que ça leur coûtait pour fournir leur service, les prix seraient infiniment plus bas.

Il ne faut pas se le cacher, les prix de Vidéotron pour internet sont hyper overpriced. En prennant ce service de Vidéotron, tout le monde sait qu'ils se feront toujours avoir du côté du prix, le dépassement de la limite mensuelle n'y échappant pas.

Mais tu as effectivement raison, ils risquent de perdre un client pour une niaiserie de quelques dollars. Je peux te confirmer que ça leur arrive, ils vont perdre mes parents qui ont les 3 services avec eux pour une question d'une trentaine de dollars. J'ai parlé à la rétention par principe et non, c'était carrément impossible même si ça vaut juste 30$ de se faire remplacer un terminal SD parce que Vidéotron ont fait des changements sur leur réseau causant des problèmes de compatibilité avec les très vieux illico. Bell offre le terminal HD gratis, la rétention de Vidéotron ne veut même pas remplacer un terminal SD qu'ils ont eux-mêmes rendu problématique... bye bye Vidéotron, Fibe télé vient d'être disponible chez mes parents!

GuiGQc

join:2012-02-22
Gatineau, QC

said by JEDI:

said by ohmer:

Ils pourraient être accommodant pour une première "offense".

C'est sûr mais si Vidéotron chargeait ce que ça leur coûtait pour fournir leur service, les prix seraient infiniment plus bas.

Pas toujours, mais pour une première offence, je suis d'Accord avec ohmer de couper ça de moitié.

Cloneman

join:2002-08-29
Montreal
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Fibe
reply to HackedWEP

Does videotron provide any modem/routers with WEP enabled by default? Like Bell 2wire?

If so, that could weigh in in your favor, such that it could have happens to any of their customers because of their poor equipment...

In any case I would fight it by whatever means to get the bill down to something reasonable. Its become ridiculous how easily (especially wireless carriers) can bring up a huge bill for something that costs pennies to provide


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by Cloneman:

Does videotron provide any modem/routers with WEP enabled by default? Like Bell 2wire?

AFAIK, none of the Videotron modems and MTAs I know about have any wireless or broadband routing functionality whatsoever, which makes it pretty much impossible for usage to get billed without passing through at least one piece of subscriber-provided equipment that can be blamed for it.


Wepwap

@bell.ca

Do you know for sure that someone else was in your network, did you see new devices in the router NAT table? Maybe one of the PC is infected with a nasty piece of malware or left some p2p game updater on for days or even just torrents and they are no fessing up to it ...


zadigre

join:2006-10-02
Montreal, QC
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to Cloneman

said by Cloneman:

Does videotron provide any modem/routers with WEP enabled by default? Like Bell 2wire?

If so, that could weigh in in your favor, such that it could have happens to any of their customers because of their poor equipment...

In any case I would fight it by whatever means to get the bill down to something reasonable. Its become ridiculous how easily (especially wireless carriers) can bring up a huge bill for something that costs pennies to provide

for your information, the newer 2wire modems from Bell are configured with WPA or WPA2 for some time now.
--
SpeedCable Extreme 60 avec Electronic Box!

julienvf

join:2008-12-30
Verdun, QC
kudos:1
reply to HackedWEP

If you need a lawyer to reduce that bill, please feel free ton PM me. I'm actually enjoying dealing that kind of stuff with Vidéotron.


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

2 edits
reply to HackedWEP

said by HackedWEP :

Synopsis:

One of my roommates switched the router from WPA to WEP a few months ago. Sometime around mid July, the router's WEP key was cracked, the login/password changed, and immense torrenting was begun. We have the 70Mbit TGV package.

Overage amounts to nearly $600.

We have about as much proof of it being WEP hacked as you can get. The usage pattern is hugely abnormal, with discrete start/stop dates that any idiot would identify.

Videotron refuses to compromise on the amount.

What is our recourse here? Can we take this to small claims against Videotron?

From the information provided, you seem to be the victim of a crime. So a police report is in order.
If so, and again based on your description of the circumstances, it would seem that your roommate unknowingly enabled this crime.
That's where you lose me. Is there something in your contract that that made you believe Videotron would protect you from this?
Whoever did this is very close, or within line of sight. Sniff him out and turn him in.
I think your recourse is taking steps to prevent this from reoccurring. Once that is done, explain the situation and your remedy to your ISP and seek some compassion.
As previously suggested, calling back and speaking with a different CSR may be the easiest route to get a break.
Failing that, your roommate needs to step up.