dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
2117
share rss forum feed


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to half truths

Re: Canada to deport female U.S. war deserter

said by half truths :

said by TLS2000:

She decided to run away instead of living up for what she signed up for.

She served in Iraq. She only ran away from it afterwards while on leave after a year.

So to say she ran away instead of serving is a half truth.

But they said so on Fox News (and Faux News North), so it must be true.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to lugnut
said by lugnut :

I can't find a citation for an article I read 10 years ago

So in other words it was a load of bullshit that you made up with no basis in reality or fact.

Good to know.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to I_H8_Spam
It's hard, it's tough, people shoot at you. There's no draft, so I'm with the others - no sympathy.

They probably do go after disadvantaged youths, but that's something the people of America have to raise with their government. Without knowing the details - is she going to pay back any money they spent on her education, training, etc. If not, how many others will want to do the same thing? Perfect, get an education, flee, and no consequences.

Sorry, ship her back, she needs to serve her time. It will be interesting after that point if Canada will let her rejoin her husband here.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
said by A Lurker:

Sorry, ship her back, she needs to serve her time. It will be interesting after that point if Canada will let her rejoin her husband here.

But she'll be a convicted criminal, we don't allow those in the country, unless your name is Conrad Black of course.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


eyeroll

@videotron.ca
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by lugnut :

I can't find a citation for an article I read 10 years ago

So in other words it was a load of bullshit that you made up with no basis in reality or fact.

Good to know.

No. I also recall it. It was when Martin was PM. In the ensuing war of words he said he would sell Canada's oil to China and cut the US off.

So yes. It was said. Maybe you yourself can try googling it instead of always trying to carry on some sort of baby fight w/ someone. Never ends with you, eh?


lugnut

@look.ca
reply to Gone
No. It was an article I read during one of the last times we had to deport a deserter sometime during the Bush administration. Bullshit is your mindless jibber jabber that you spew whenever you get a crab up your ass and feel like making a federal case out of a very minor point.

Do you seriously think the teabaggers and other right wing loonies running the show south of the border these days would think twice about sending their criminals up to us if we started ignoring legitimate American extradition orders?

We even allow them to extradite Canadians who commit no crimes on American soil because of their stupid patriot act. Or have you already forgotten about Marc Emery? Do you think we really gave him up without their threat of mayhem hanging over our heads?


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Come'on yourself, how often do you see an ad for the Armed Forces (US or Canada) showing soldiers fighting in war?

How often do you see an ad for them bailing people out of tropical storms or shovelling them out of snow?


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to eyeroll
said by eyeroll :

No. I also recall it. It was when Martin was PM. In the ensuing war of words he said he would sell Canada's oil to China and cut the US off.

So yes. It was said. Maybe you yourself can try googling it instead of always trying to carry on some sort of baby fight w/ someone. Never ends with you, eh?

If it was said, cite it. It's not up to me to do either if your homework. Until then, you're either outright talking bullshit, or taking something so wildly out of context that we may as well call it bullshit anyway.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues
Since it was an "illegal" war, Obama has the power to stop any prosecution of deserters deported back to the U.S.

Contact him to get it done.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to lugnut
Don't forget that the CEO of Sherrit can be prosecuted in the US for doing business with Cuba.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to I_H8_Spam
Here are the facts......
a. she joined of her own free will.
b. she decided she did not want to participate in what she had joined up to, for whatever reasons.
c. the US as probably in Canada does give the individual the right to decline serving
d. that choice means one would prefer to spend time behind bars then on the front line.
e. in the past those people were shot.
f. she cannot seek asylum in canada due to being persecuted or fear of life in the US.
g. she will be tried with due process in the US.
h. she needs to be held accountable for decisions she made.
i. if her reasons for declining service in b. are valid, she could be exonnerated or not be tried for that (on whatever grounds) however, deserting is probably another crime and would probably be punished.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues
Canada is required by law and by treaty with the U.S. to identify, locate and take into custody of US nationals who have committed crime that carries a possible sentence of more than a year.

The case cited was duly adjudicated by the Immigration and Refugee Board which rejected her refugee status request. The Minister issued the deportation order pursuant to that judgement.

Or do you prefer that politicians alone decide such matters, as long as their decision agrees with your political opinion?
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
So in your mind a Canadian, who has broken no Canadian laws, but has violated some ideologically driven law in the US should be handed over to the Americans?


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

Canada is required by law and by treaty with the U.S. to identify, locate and take into custody of US nationals who have committed crime that carries a possible sentence of more than a year.

All such deportations are reviewed by a judge to make sure the individual's human rights won't be violated at their destination. This is especially true of nations that have the death penalty.

If she was under the threat of being executed, she wouldn't have been deported. Instead, she'll most likely get a prison sentence of a few years, which is highly survivable.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

So in your mind a Canadian, who has broken no Canadian laws, but has violated some ideologically driven law in the US should be handed over to the Americans?

Clearly you missed the part of his post that said "US nationals".

A Canadian, who is also an American, and has broken no Canadian laws, but who has broken some US law, yes, they should be punished... Because really you can boil that down to "an American who has broken some US law". For something like the Cuba case, those OFAC restrictions only apply to US residents, so a Canadian citizen would only be arrested in the US for violating OFAC rules if they are *living* in the US.

--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
I did miss that.


I_H8_Spam

join:2004-03-10
St Catharines, ON
reply to milnoc
said by milnoc:

she'll most likely get a prison sentence of a few years, which is highly survivable.

Max is 5 years as it wasn't in a time of "war" as defined by congressional act.

Had she been "smart" about it and AWOL'd, returned before desertion status took hold. She most likely would have been discharged with a BCD, free to resume her life with her Canadian husband.
--
AFK: Attack, fight, kill!! The healer is telling you to go pull mobs.
WTF: Way to fight! The healer is applauding your tactical genius

booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON
said by I_H8_Spam:

said by milnoc:

she'll most likely get a prison sentence of a few years, which is highly survivable.

Max is 5 years as it wasn't in a time of "war" as defined by congressional act.

Had she been "smart" about it and AWOL'd, returned before desertion status took hold. She most likely would have been discharged with a BCD, free to resume her life with her Canadian husband.

Lol, it's pretty ironic that the very fact she went AWOL over (the Iraq war being illegal) is also responsible for her getting a more lenient sentence.

This is not to suggest that bureaucracy works.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Of course, "The Harper Government" bowing to their American Masters. Back in the day, we'd welcome deserters, you would think in light of Dubya's illegal Iraq war, we'd be as welcoming.

Well, if your little jab (you never miss the opportunity) didn't get this moved to CanPol, I guess it's safe to point out to you that not accepting US deserters from the Gulf War has been Canadian Policy long before the Conservatives were in power. The first case being in 2004. The Liberal Government ordered Hinzman (the claimant) deported. Deportation order was then stayed by the evil Harper Government in 2008.

Keep on 'spinnin though.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Mashiki
Balking The Enemy's Plans

join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
·Bright House Net..
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Of course, "The Harper Government" bowing to their American Masters. Back in the day, we'd welcome deserters, you would think in light of Dubya's illegal Iraq war, we'd be as welcoming.

Oh please. No draft, no sympathy. I'm just going to roll my eyes at the rest of the stupidity on that, especially the "illegal comment" go back, start reading. I have two cousins who are in the Canadian military. One is in 1 PPCILI and another in the beaver brigade(1 CER), they knew exactly what they signed up for.


lugnut

@look.ca
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

said by elwoodblues:

So in your mind a Canadian, who has broken no Canadian laws, but has violated some ideologically driven law in the US should be handed over to the Americans?

Clearly you missed the part of his post that said "US nationals".

A Canadian, who is also an American, and has broken no Canadian laws, but who has broken some US law, yes, they should be punished... Because really you can boil that down to "an American who has broken some US law". For something like the Cuba case, those OFAC restrictions only apply to US residents, so a Canadian citizen would only be arrested in the US for violating OFAC rules if they are *living* in the US.

How did Marc Emery fit into that formula? Approached by American undercover agents in Canada and tried in absentia in a kangaroo court he's currently doing hard time in the US for selling marijuana seeds which are legal in Canada to mail order customers in the US.

If marijuana laws and the American War on Drugs are not an ideological crime I dunno what else qualifies?


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
said by lugnut :

How did Marc Emery fit into that formula? Approached by American undercover agents in Canada and tried in absentia in a kangaroo court he's currently doing hard time in the US for selling marijuana seeds which are legal in Canada to mail order customers in the US.

Unless you were born under a rock he would know that selling drugs (or seeds that will become drugs) to the US was going to be a huge issue. After reading about him briefly this guy almost certainly knew he was likely to get in huge crap for it. Whether you believe in legalization means nothing. Under most definitions he's a drug runner.

Anyway, you raised a huge straw man. This is about an American who broke American law and then fled to Canada to avoid the consequences.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues
Desertion is an offence in Canada as well, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to I_H8_Spam
Hmmm, well to me this isn't the same as draft doggers, but I completely agree with her stance of deserting.

1) She signed up to protect her country. I fully believe she has the right to not go and fight a war if she believes it's morally wrong or she will be put in a situation were she might have to do something that conflicts with he morals.

2) The USA has been occupying various countries lately under other guises. Lots of civilians have been murdered and sacrificed, and in general a lot of USA soldiers have been caught doing some very disguising and illegal things to people in those countries.

3)Because of people like her, I have faith in the human race. If Hitlers soldiers just deserted instead of following orders the Holocaust would not have happened. Of course I'm not drawing any parallels here, but just saying it takes a lot of courage to do what she did and if past history shows anything it's important to stick to your morals.

It's just too bad our government is tossing her to the wolves.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X


PX Eliezer70
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
said by Warez_Zealot:

Hmmm, well to me this isn't the same as draft doggers, but I completely agree with her stance of deserting.

1) She signed up to protect her country. I fully believe she has the right to not go and fight a war if she believes it's morally wrong or she will be put in a situation were she might have to do something that conflicts with he morals.

Fine, but if so she should accept the consequences of her actions.

Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi didn't flee to other countries. They did jail time (27 years for Mandela), to make their points.


dennilfloss
Liberal And Loving It
Premium
join:2001-09-09
Ottawa, ON
reply to I_H8_Spam
What about her two children who were born in Canada? They are Canadians and if the family is deported, will have to be raised in the US. Talk about punishing the innocents too.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
If they were born in Canada they can't be deported. They're Canadian citizens and have a legal right to be here. End of story.

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to PX Eliezer70
said by PX Eliezer70:

said by Warez_Zealot:

Hmmm, well to me this isn't the same as draft doggers, but I completely agree with her stance of deserting.

1) She signed up to protect her country. I fully believe she has the right to not go and fight a war if she believes it's morally wrong or she will be put in a situation were she might have to do something that conflicts with he morals.

Fine, but if so she should accept the consequences of her actions.

Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi didn't flee to other countries. They did jail time (27 years for Mandela), to make their points.

They were political martyrs.. Kinda comparing apples to oranges to me.

Anyhow, I hope she goes into hiding. What our government is trying to do is pretty immoral to me. I'm sure there are a few women's groups willing to come to her/her kids aid and keep her from getting deported.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to A Lurker
said by A Lurker:

Unless you were born under a rock he would know that selling drugs (or seeds that will become drugs) to the US was going to be a huge issue. After reading about him briefly this guy almost certainly knew he was likely to get in huge crap for it. Whether you believe in legalization means nothing. Under most definitions he's a drug runner.

He's not a drug runner. He sold seeds, something that while illegal in Canada is rarely prosecuted and only subject to a fine and by no means considered the same thing under Canadian law as actually selling the grown product. The situation is complicated, but regardless of that you demonstrated both a bias and a lack of understanding of what went down with him by these comments.

It would have been very interesting if his extradition made it to the Supreme Court. I don't believe the results would have been as clear-cut as many people may claim. Either way, he agreed to a deal in the US that would see him serve time in return for charges against all his associates being dropped.

As for claiming his argument was straw, not really. The fact that she's an American means nothing. If the woman was a dual citizen and fled to Canada the Americans would most likely have pressured Canada into sending her back just like they took Marc Emery into their own hands too.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to dennilfloss
said by dennilfloss:

What about her two children who were born in Canada? They are Canadians and if the family is deported, will have to be raised in the US. Talk about punishing the innocents too.

Maybe she had kids thinking they would protect her from being deported. Because she didnt face the music of her own free will choices in the past she has now screwed up the lives of two children, shame on her.
--
Ain't nuthin but the blues! "Albert Collins".
Leave your troubles at the door! "Pepe Peregil" De Sevilla. Just Don't Wifi without WPA, "Yul Brenner"

LlamaWorks Equipment