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sunday8pm

join:2010-05-24
reply to InvalidError

Re: Cancelling Fibe after a month to get a clean line for free?

So the indian sales rep I talked to had no idea what he was talking about


planiwa

join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
kudos:1
reply to sunday8pm

[Corrections to the below appreciated]

Should one assume that Bell actually does any free rewiring beyond the Demark when you get Fibe?

Then there is the wire to the Remote.

And then, perhaps, the wire to the CO.

***

I know a situation where 3 years ago the customer switched from Acanac to Teksavvy. Before the switch the line was connected to the Remote just a few houses up the street. (To an infamous IKNS card After the switch the line ended up connected to the CO 3 km away (as evidenced by the attenuation). The line quality was very poor, and especially the upstream SNR was barely usable -- SNRM at 6, sync rate often around 400kbps. Often DSL would lose sync (typically after midnight) and try resyncing for up to 12 hours. The inside wiring was known to be not good.

I imagine that switching to Bell Fibe would:

1. Ensure a good line from Demark to Remote
2. Ensure conection to the Remote, of course.

So, if there was poor wiring to the Remote, this trick would fix that.

Cancelling and going back to non-fiber DSL from TSI etc. would retain the good wiring to the Remote. But the "phone" line would most likely go (back) to the CO (or?) to connect to its DSLAM (whatever).

So, in the above situation, that long, noisy wire would not get fixed by this trick.

That's how I imagine it. I may be wrong.


CopperFibre

join:2012-09-08
Montreal, QC
reply to sunday8pm

Unless you then go with Colba who has their own COs (provided you know for a fact the CO is not miles away from you).

Then you have a clean line, a clean drop and are connected to a CO not too far away.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by CopperFibre:

Unless you then go with Colba who has their own COs (provided you know for a fact the CO is not miles away from you).

Colba does not have "their own COs", they rent space in Bell's COs to setup their own equipment.

CopperFibre

join:2012-09-08
Montreal, QC

I didn't know that. Nevertheless, it's possible to see on their website where the CO is and get an idea of how far away it is. Plus if someone nearby has Colba they can tell you what speed they get. This is not a guarantee but it gives you a rough idea of what you can expect.

Anyway, unlimited cable is a much better alternative to DSL in my opinion because you don't depend on some shitty line that was built 60 years ago.


planiwa

join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
kudos:1
reply to CopperFibre

said by CopperFibre:

Then you have a clean line, a clean drop and are connected to a CO not too far away.

I'm trying to understand -- what is meant by "line", "drop", and "then"?

As I see it, after canceling Fibe, there is no reason why the line that will then no longer go the Remote, but all the way to the CO, will be "clean" (except close to the house) or "not too far away" (is 3km (DS Atn 41dB) as in the above example considered "not too far away"?).

The only part that will remain clean is from the customer to the Remote, (or wherever it branches off towards the CO), no?

(CF example given above.)

CopperFibre

join:2012-09-08
Montreal, QC
reply to sunday8pm

Not always, I've lived in flat where the inside wiring was faulty or the drop was faulty. It's less hard to have Bell fix these things when you are their own customer than when you are with a reseller


CopperFibre

join:2012-09-08
Montreal, QC
reply to sunday8pm

And yes, Bell does your inside wiring past the demarc in your home for free when you subscribe for Fibe


planiwa

join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
kudos:1

said by CopperFibre:

And yes, Bell does your inside wiring past the demarc in your home for free when you subscribe for Fibe

Ah! Thank you -- I didn't know that. This is very important.

Crixox

join:2010-09-10
Repentigny, QC
Reviews:
·Colbanet
reply to sunday8pm

watch out, if you get a new FIBE line installed, you might be stuck with indies not being able to place new orders anymore to install a new loop as Bell's DB might show this address is now deserved by Fibe. and can't get a "copper line" installed, even though the copper is still there.

Saw that way too often, and indies like ColbaNet stopped fighting against Bell to get this fixed, as Bell won't listen / understand ...



FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

Just to clarify one point here.. Unless you're a Bell customer and are paying for wire care, they aren't obligated to touch your inside wiring. They may do it as a courtesy, but I've seen them do it for wholesale ISP customers as well (very rare as they openly admit to being instructed to be as unhelpful as possible while still somewhat meeting their contractual obligations). The $100 diagnostic maintenance charge is to cover their expenses when they send a tech to deal with an issue they're not responsible for. If you wanna spend $100, just get a professional to run a proper jack from the demarc/NID/terminal to where you'll be running your modem.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


planiwa

join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
kudos:1

said by FiReSTaRT:

Just to clarify one point here.. Unless you're a Bell customer and are paying for wire care, they aren't obligated to touch your inside wiring. They may do it as a courtesy, but I've seen them do it for wholesale ISP customers as well (very rare as they openly admit to being instructed to be as unhelpful as possible while still somewhat meeting their contractual obligations). The $100 diagnostic maintenance charge is to cover their expenses when they send a tech to deal with an issue they're not responsible for. If you wanna spend $100, just get a professional to run a proper jack from the demarc/NID/terminal to where you'll be running your modem.

Someone else here said that Bell does wire Fibe (25/10) from the Demarc to where you want the Fibe-modem jack to be at no cost to the customer.

My assumption was that they use something like CAT6e nonstop from Demarc to modem jack.

Another assumption was that the Bell Tec will be able not only to install the wire from the Demark to where the modem is, but will also ensure the quality of the wire from the Demarc to the Fibre-box. (What's the proper name for that?)

Final assumption -- the Bell Tech will make sure that the entire wire from fibre-box to modem is of sufficient quality to actually provide 25/20 (assuming that the fibre box is close enough, which it should be in the city).

planiwa

join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
kudos:1
reply to Crixox

said by Crixox:

watch out, if you get a new FIBE line installed, you might be stuck with indies not being able to place new orders anymore to install a new loop as Bell's DB might show this address is now deserved by Fibe. and can't get a "copper line" installed, even though the copper is still there.

Really? How can that be? Would that be legal?


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
reply to planiwa

I can't confirm any of those as I got the 25/7 plan with an independent provider, have an indoor terminal and ran my own Cat6 (not that it's any better for this purpose than Cat5, it was just what I had lying around). Then they sent another contractor who wanted to put in a POTS splitter even though I'm running a dry loop. The contractor did some testing and we even ran some speed tests to make sure everything was fine since I was unable to pull stats from the Cellpipe piece of junk.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Crixox

join:2010-09-10
Repentigny, QC
Reviews:
·Colbanet
reply to planiwa

not "illegal" simply not properly regulated

their database is probably not suited to show that this location can receive BOTH copper and Fiber lines

in some occasions, a single tenant in a multitenant building orders FIBE TV, they install a fibe VDSL line and then, all orders are being refused stating there is no more copper facilities in there

Reps at Bell don't give a damn and indies are wasting their time trying to get them to understand...


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to planiwa

said by planiwa:

My assumption was that they use something like CAT6e nonstop from Demarc to modem jack.

The 50-1200m between your demarc and the DSLAM is Cat3 or equivalent, there is no point in using Cat6e or even plain Cat5 for the last 5-10m.

planiwa

join:2009-02-19
Toronto M5S
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Crixox

said by Crixox:

not "illegal" simply not properly regulated

their database is probably not suited to show that this location can receive BOTH copper and Fiber lines

So, bearing in mind the OP's question:

1. Starting out with "dodgy" line (jack to demarc / remote / CO?).

"have Bell install a clean new line and plug for Fibe from the demarc to my modem and then cancel Fibe"

Has a clear answer been given?

I'm trying to understand.

If an Indie offers Fibe 25/10, surely a customer can switch from Bell Fibe to Indie Fibe, no?

If customer wants to switch from Bell Fibe 25/10 to Indie Fibe 5/1 surely there can be no problem.

If customer wants to switch to Indie wire 6/.8 -- is that where the problem arises, since the wire only goes as far as the Fibre-box (what's the proper name for this?).

But wouldn't the same poblem obtain if customer wants to switch to Bell (wire) Internet 5/.8?

Have these "DB" problems actually happened?

Has the OP's question been answered? Thanks.

Crixox

join:2010-09-10
Repentigny, QC
Reviews:
·Colbanet
reply to sunday8pm

issues will happen if an indi ISP tries to install an unbundled copper loop at the location, and it did happen in the past, quite often too.

depends on where the trouble on your line is

let's say you have a S1 issue, if they connect you on a remote at the JWI for your FIBE 25/10 and your S2 is in good condition... you'll be fine till you have this service removed, if you get a service in the future that would come from the CO directly.. same problem might come back.

Depending on the ISPs, I'd suggest to simply have a second line installed and see if it's any better, some will only charge minor fees for a dryloop installation.

if you close this line and reopen, chances are Bell will re-use the same wiring.



xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to InvalidError

said by InvalidError:

said by planiwa:

My assumption was that they use something like CAT6e nonstop from Demarc to modem jack.

The 50-1200m between your demarc and the DSLAM is Cat3 or equivalent, there is no point in using Cat6e or even plain Cat5 for the last 5-10m.

Except that last 5-10m is where you will run into the most problems with nearby electrical that cat. 3 may not overcome.

The vast majority of the loop to your home is shielded, bonded and grounded and your ISW is not.

The Diagnostic charge is $89.00 plus tax and they stop work at the demarc.

The inside wire repair charge is $99.00 plus tax and up to repair inside wire.

I have seen charges in the hundreds of dollars the highest being around $350.00.