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rbnice1
join:2000-12-16
Imperial, MO

rbnice1 to robbin

Member

to robbin

Re: New home build framing question.

ahh thanks for pointing that out. It makes since to me that you would stagger them. Not sure why they didnt but we will find out Tuesday morning.

as far as stud height I will have to get a ladder out there to check it all out. I have a lvl and the outer walls are all lvl. 1 of the innter walls is slightly off lvl but only like 1/4 inch over a 9 foot run, so good enough for a non load bearing.
BrewBoy5
join:2002-04-28

BrewBoy5

Member

It's fairly clear that the joists are not nailed yet(to a trained eye), before you complain I would confirm what you think you see. As far as the top plates not overlapping, ideally they would overlap, but is it a big deal in a interior non structural location ,which this appears to be, not so much. As far as the kerfs in the rim board, i have no idea why, however the structural function of the rim board is compression and the kerfs would not affect compression to much. The shimming under the beam is crap if that is the end product, however in my experience, the framer shims it to where it is supposed to be and the contractor has it properly grouted and secured. Before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.
AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AVonGauss

Premium Member

said by BrewBoy5:

Before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.

Sounds like they already did talk to them, and they were ignored...

»Re: New home build framing question.

...
Self Righteous Jack Wagon

rbnice1
join:2000-12-16
Imperial, MO

rbnice1 to BrewBoy5

Member

to BrewBoy5
You are correct looking closer they are not nailed yet. While I agree the kerfs are not a structural issue and if there was a kerf in a 20 foot board I wouldnt bitch. My problem is there are 5 in a 20 foot board. The 2x10 rim board they used really should have been scrapped.

The main beam and shims will be grouted so the shims are fine as long as they stack them right.

As far as the self righteous jack wagons here.... They are answering my questions as I ask them. I can hardly complain about them. :P

Ken
MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

1 recommendation

Ken to BrewBoy5

MVM

to BrewBoy5
said by BrewBoy5:

As far as the top plates not overlapping, ideally they would overlap, but is it a big deal in a interior non structural location ,which this appears to be, not so much.

I can't even begin to imagine how you could look at a wall that has a beam carrying the 2nd floor sitting directly on top of it, and somehow deem that a non structural location. That corner of those two walls is very clearly a load bearing wall, and those top plates must be overlapped. Top plates must always overlap it doesn't matter if the wall is load bearing or not. This isn't a concept that's only done sometimes, it's done every single time no exceptions. The purpose of the overlap is to lock the entire building together, whether that particular wall is load bearing or not is irrelevant.
said by BrewBoy5:

Before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.

One of the problems with this forum is we have a lot of people who have no experience whatsoever in a field but they jump right in and give bad advice. The part of your post I quoted above would be a good example of that. I personally have extensive framing experience having framed several new construction houses, and dozens more in partial remodel situations. I am completely qualified to look at these framing pictures and point out things that are wrong or explain how things should be done.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by Ken:

One of the problems with this forum is we have a lot of people who have no experience whatsoever in a field but they jump right in and give bad advice.

+1
BrewBoy5
join:2002-04-28

BrewBoy5 to Ken

Member

to Ken
Bad advice??? Really Ken?? Then why do mills make 94 1/8 precut studs? Let me answer that for you. Because in interior non load bearing situations double top plates are not required, (In many jurisdictions). So my question is, Ken, with that new knowledge, go ahead and google that if you want, how is one supposed to lap the plates" every single time no exceptions."? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Secondly, with your experience of framing "several" houses, you should have looked at that picture and realized that is most likely a stairwell wall, the question should be asked if that is the case and if so is that wall going to be cut down to the angle of the stair? If that is the case would it not make more sense not to lap those plates?
Well look at that!! Something Ken did not think about!

And I stand by what I said, before you listen to a bunch of self righteous jack wagons from the internet I would talk to your contractor and resolve your concerns.

VioletVenom
Lets go Gators
Premium Member
join:2002-01-02
Gainesville, FL

1 recommendation

VioletVenom

Premium Member

I've been a carpenter for over 20 years, every phase of residential construction. I've followed Ken and nunya's advice in these forums for a long time. I've never seen an instance where they don't know what they are talking about. In this case they are right on the money (per usual). Trolling this forum isn't helping the OP with their problems.
BrewBoy5
join:2002-04-28

BrewBoy5

Member

Here is the code for top plates Ken, 2308.9.2.1, 2009 IBC which further states that single plates are allowed on bearing and exterior walls when joists / rafters fall within one inch of a stud. So again how does one go about overlapping the plates "every single time no exceptions."?

If you don't mind I'm going to use your quote.
One of the problems with this forum is we have a lot of people who have no experience whatsoever in a field but they jump right in and give bad advice. I personally have extensive framing experience having framed several HUNDRED new construction houses.

Cho Baka
MVM
join:2000-11-23
there

Cho Baka

MVM

Neither Ken nor anyone else is advocating building to a minimum spec as you have provided.

In the photos shown, it is very clear that what was done is shoddy/halfassed.

I'm surprised anyone would stick up for workmanship like this.
Would you build your own house like this?

Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

Msradell to VioletVenom

Premium Member

to VioletVenom
said by VioletVenom:

I've been a carpenter for over 20 years, every phase of residential construction. I've followed Ken and nunya's advice in these forums for a long time. I've never seen an instance where they don't know what they are talking about. In this case they are right on the money (per usual). Trolling this forum isn't helping the OP with their problems.

+1 They certainly provide clear and concise information. As stated elsewhere they provide information for doing something that not only meets code but exceeds it. Something everyone should strive for instead of trying to get by with the minimum.

Ken
MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

1 edit

1 recommendation

Ken to BrewBoy5

MVM

to BrewBoy5
I think I was quite clear. Double top plates have to overlap. Your rebuttal is how do you overlap on single top plates? Refer back to my original statement, double top plates have to overlap. Obviously if you don't have double top plates you can't overlap them. Single top plates is very uncommon. I have never seen it used with any regularity in custom homes or production tract homes. The few times I have seen it used are people going for energy efficiency and the elimination of the 2nd top plate gives you a more efficient wall. Usually on these types of walls they are also eliminating the jack studs as well. All of this requires special metal connectors which cost more than the studs they are replacing. So nobody is doing it to save money, they pay more to use less wood so the wall will be more efficient.

Your theory about that being a stairwell wall is a good one for the most part. You think the top plates don't overlap because they are going to come back and cut the wall down in height to open the stairwell to the adjoining room. The stairwell obviously can't start at that door shown and go up as it would look stupid to have a framed opening with header and then an angled wall next to it. The only likely conclusion would be the stair starts from the right and goes up stopping just above the beam. The doorway pictured would then be a closet under the stairs or the basement stairs. The problem with this is the wall would be cut down on the right side, the left side would be full height by the time it got to the beam. Meaning you could still tie in the double top plates, in fact it would be even more important since the wall isn't connected at the top. With all that said I've certainly never seen anyone build a stair wall and come back later to cut the angle. Everytime I've done it or seen it done the angled walls are built after the stairs are in. Why take the time to build a wall and then come back and modify it? It's a waste of time.

I don't believe that you have personally framed hundreds of houses. You don't seem to understand that a rim joist is not there just for compression from above, but also to stop lateral twisting of the joists. The kerf cuts as they have them would allow the joists to twist in one direction, that's why it isn't right. You believe that overlapping top joints is only ideal and not a requirement. You think the joists aren't nailed into the joist hangers, but from what I can tell it sure looks like they are. You might be someone who has been on a construction site but you certainly don't show the understanding of someone who has personally framed hundreds of houses.

Coma
Thanks Steve
Premium Member
join:2001-12-30
NirvanaLand

Coma

Premium Member

said by Ken:

You think the joists aren't nailed into the joist hangers, but from what I can tell it sure looks like they are.


Ken, I enlarged the shot with the joist hangers and it appears to me that the joist are not yet nailed and the hangers are held in place with one nail on each side.

Ken
MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

Ken

MVM

I didn't try to enlarge them, so maybe I should have. At first glance it certainly looked like nail heads are present. If they aren't nailed then ignore what I said earlier regarding that.