dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
8975
share rss forum feed


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to JCohen

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

said by JCohen:

Yea, cause $7,000 is going to make a company as big as Bell financially responsible. In 2010 they had a revenue of $10.069 Billion, $7,000 is just pennies

Man, that is so not the point.

The point is, when you do something wrong you should pay a price. That is the very foundation of our court systems, and our belief systems in general.

Someone needs to be on the carpet for this BS.

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Make The Switch - »openmedia.ca/switch
Expand your moderator at work


nuageux

@videotron.ca
reply to dillyhammer

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

Ya but it's a mistake, it will always happen. They don't want to do mistake, when they have to come back to fix the mistake, it cost money to them. Why this mistake happen two times? Maybe there's something wrong, a mix-up with the wiring? Wich wiring, the one owned by Bell or the interior wiring of the building? If it's with the interior wiring of the building and if it's owned by the building's owner, maybe the building owner is responsable about these mistakes, maybe it's the one who have to pay?

Anyway, I think you over reacted about that! If the customer isn't happy with his adsl Internet connection, maybe he must switch to cable?



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

The building's wiring is owned by Bell. My demarc is the phone jack in the wall.

The only option for the cable "last mile" is Videotron.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to dillyhammer

said by dillyhammer:

said by JCohen:

Yea, cause $7,000 is going to make a company as big as Bell financially responsible. In 2010 they had a revenue of $10.069 Billion, $7,000 is just pennies

Man, that is so not the point.

The point is, when you do something wrong you should pay a price. That is the very foundation of our court systems, and our belief systems in general.

Someone needs to be on the carpet for this BS.

Mike



Listen, unless you can prove GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of Bell/Tech its a moot point, it was a simple accident, these things happen...

No Court of law, especially a "small claims court" is going to award what you're looking for.

Especially jurisdiction, since you'd be in Ontario, you'd be subject to the laws of the land of Ontario...

When an innocent mistake is made, the court should NOT be the recourse.

Internet access is not enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms...Internet is not a right.....(although most people here would think otherwise).

But I wish you luck in your quest. You can receive judgment even if you do win, and then how do you enforce collection on them?

Again, I wish you luck but I feel like you're fighting a losing battle, and even in small claims court, the defendants in this case if successful would still have you pay the court costs that they incurred and I'm sure their lawyers won't come cheap.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to nitzguy

said by nitzguy:

said by milnoc:

This is the second time this has happened in a period of six months FOR EXACTLY THE SAME REASON. This isn't an equipment breakdown, a rodent incident or any pathetic excuse. This is the work of an INCOMPETENT technician depriving me of a service I've already paid for.

As a result of this, I have no other choice but to seek financial compensation above the current monthly Internet costs. Starting tomorrow, both TekSavvy and Bell Canada will be fined $100 EACH per FULL day that I'm without Internet service, up to a maximum of $7,000, the maximum amount that can be claimed in Quebec Small Claims Court.

It is time to make corporations financially responsible for their blatant incompetence.

....I believe if you probably look at the TSI TOS, you can't seek claim for damages above what you pay them in monthly service.

Excerpt from said TOS/AUP: »secure.teksavvy.com/en/termspolicies.asp

5. Warranty

1. Customer acknowledges that TekSavvy does not warrant uninterrupted or error free Services or the content, availability, accuracy or any other aspect of any information including, without limitation, all data, files and all other information or content in any form or of any type, accessible or made available to or by Customer or its end users through the use of the Services. TekSavvy shall be permitted from time to time to interrupt the Services in order to provide maintenance to the Services, as more specifically set out in the Schedules.
2. The warranties provided in this Agreement are in lieu of all other warranties and conditions. The Customer hereby waives all other warranties and conditions, express, implied or statutory, including any warranty of merchantability, fitness of a particular purpose, or availability or reliability of the Services.

6. Remedies

a. SUBJECT TO SECTION 8, TEKSAVVY'S AND THE THIRD PARTY PROVIDERS' TOTAL CUMULATIVE LIABILITY, IF ANY, TO THE CUSTOMER FOR DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT AND THE PROVISION OF THE SERVICES WILL IN NO EVENT EXCEED THE TOTAL AGGREGATE MONTHLY CHARGES (NET OF ALL DISCOUNTS AND CREDITS) PAID BY THE CUSTOMER DURING THE PERIOD SUCH DAMAGES WERE INCURRED, SUCH PERIOD NOT TO EXCEED THREE (3) MONTHS, FOR THE SPECIFIC SERVICES THAT ALLEGEDLY GIVE RISE TO THE DAMAGES.

b. CUSTOMER'S SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES AGAINST TEKSAVVY IN RESPECT OF THE SERVICES AND THIS AGREEMENT SHALL BE AS STATED IN THIS AGREEMENT.

The Caps are from the website...so, like I said...you can't get more than whatever your monthly billing is, I guess if you're paying $3100/month for your internet services, then the $100 day to TSI would be relevant, otherwise since you've agreed to the service, you've agreed to the terms and conditions therein...otherwise you can disconnect the service...

Your "Time and mobile phone minutes" would be irrelevant in a court of law....again if it was important that you didn't have downtime, have a backup....

That's all I can say, people like this used to try and throw that argument at me all the time....looks like the TSI Lawyers did their homework on this one, sorry, you lose.

No one looses yet. That's jumping to a harsh conclusion without a judges ruling. TOS is agreed upon, as is a 3 year contract with Rogers for example, but this does not stop a judge from ruling in favor of the plaintiff on extraordinary grounds. It has happened under other criteria.

I think TSI and Bell are in favor. Odds in winning without real proof of suffering or serious loss of income or how one came about a $100 /day number without justification would be thrown out faster than you can say Bell Sucks


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to nitzguy

said by nitzguy:

Internet access is not enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms...Internet is not a right.....(although most people here would think otherwise).

+1
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to nitzguy

said by nitzguy:

Listen, unless you can prove GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of Bell/Tech its a moot point, it was a simple accident, these things happen...

Bullshit. You make a mistake, you must make reparations for that mistake. That's the ethical thing to do.

And this particular mistake happened not once, but twice.

Got a call from Bell. The line will be reconnected on Wednesday morning. That means I'll be demanding $200 each from Bell Canada and TekSavvy as compensation.

Unless they send the same INCOMPETENT technician, at which point I'll refuse them entry. I've already warned TekSavvy about this.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to milnoc

Crap, looks like I may be in the same boat.

Just came home tonight and found, for the very first time in 10 years, my DSL modem has lost sync. Plugged in my old Harmonie landline phone *without* a filter and the line is crystal clear--no hissing or static. That to me indicates my line card has been pulled at the DSLAM.

Went through all the trouble shooting steps, including testing a spare modem, still no sync!

Called TSI, no issue with my billing or account status. Just looks like a Bell *uck up. If I'm out for a week or more I'm going to be pretty damn pissed off at Bell to put it lightly. Waiting for tech support to answer (likely a good hour wait) so I can open a ticket.



Angelo
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18

had that happen to my toronto home... too , debating upgrading speeds... vdsl is very tempting now lol


jibby

join:2008-03-31
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to milnoc

legal stuff aside, i used to have the same thing every few months when i was on DSL

the box in the basement is such a mess that anytime a Bell guy installed a new line they'd mess up a bunch of others

one of the major reasons i moved to cable



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to IIgs

IIgs, wait until you find out the exact cause of the loss of connection. I can understand the occasional equipment breakdown as they do happen on occasion. Also, you might not hear anything on the unfiltered line if no data is being exchanged.

Gonna be switching over to the Rogers mobile Internet. It's gonna be a painful night.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


fewl

join:2011-01-05
reply to jibby

This has happened to me three times already and the year isnt over. First Teksavvy threatens me if the problem is in the wiring in my house I will be extortioned and then after 2-3 Bell techs make a visit the issue is fixed till next time. Now whenever I see a Bell vehicle in my neighbourhood the first thing I do is run to my house to check my internet.



IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:1
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

IIgs, wait until you find out the exact cause of the loss of connection. I can understand the occasional equipment breakdown as they do happen on occasion. Also, you might not hear anything on the unfiltered line if no data is being exchanged.

Gonna be switching over to the Rogers mobile Internet. It's gonna be a painful night.

Well, I had no choice but to open a ticket with TSI. Difficult to say what the cause is, equipment failure or Bell's infinite stupidity, but all I know is I'm now at the mercy of Bell Canada. Will I have no Internet for several day...weeks? Will Bell charge me $100 claiming the problem is on my end?

If I didn't have my next door neighbor's wireless signal to borrow (she's also with TSI) I'd be pretty screwed right now.

Grappler

join:2002-09-01
Ottawa, ON
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

Bullshit. You make a mistake, you must make reparations for that mistake. That's the ethical thing to do.

...

Unless they send the same INCOMPETENT technician, at which point I'll refuse them entry. I've already warned TekSavvy about this.

I guess then you will not get connected as you will be refusing entry to all the technicians that will be sent. (you already stated you cannot identify the technician)

Do not confuse ethical with legal.
Expand your moderator at work


TSI Andre
Got TekSavvy?
Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:24
reply to milnoc

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

Milnoc,

Are you still without service? If so, please PM me your account number and I will get the ball rolling to get you back in service.

This does not happen often however when it does, we usually are able to get folks back online after a little persuasion with Bell.

Let me know.

Andre
--
TSI Andre
Director of Service Delivery
Authorized TSI Employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
@AndreCleroux - Follow me on Twitter


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to nitzguy

said by nitzguy:



Listen, unless you can prove GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of Bell/Tech its a moot point, it was a simple accident, these things happen...

Just because 'accidents happen' does not mean that the victim is SOL.

You rear-end somebody in your car and what happens to the victim's repair costs? Either your insurance company pays, or you do out-of-pocket. Bell is self-insured & TSI is self-insured.

TSI is responsible to directly compensate the customer as they are the so called 'service provider'. Bell is responsible for contributory negligence in the same way that jerkass parents are if their kid leaves the moveable basketball post/net in the street at night and you drive down the road and smack into it (happens in Forest Hill where some people think they own the road too).

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to Angelo

said by Angelo:

had that happen to my toronto home... too , debating upgrading speeds... vdsl is very tempting now lol

Thought you had vdsl already to speed building up your collection of Linux "ISO's"


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to Grappler

said by Grappler:

I guess then you will not get connected as you will be refusing entry to all the technicians that will be sent. (you already stated you cannot identify the technician)

Do not confuse ethical with legal.

I don't know his name, but I do know what he looks like.

And if a company uses legal means to behave unethically, what does that say about the entire organisation?

Andre, the tech is scheduled to show up tomorrow morning. Hopefully.

If service isn't restored, I'll have to reconsider doing business with your company. Losing service like this due to blatant INCOMPETENCE is simply unacceptable.

Or maybe MALICIOUS INTENT. "Breaking" a customer's existing connection while working on another customer's connection would be a neat little way for a subcontracted technician to get repeated service calls (and service call payments) to the same building address.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

1 edit

said by milnoc:

And if a company uses legal means to behave unethically, what does that say about the entire organisation?

If service isn't restored, I'll have to reconsider doing business with your company. Losing service like this due to blatant INCOMPETENCE is simply unacceptable.

Or maybe MALICIOUS INTENT. "Breaking" a customer's existing connection while working on another customer's connection would be a neat little way for a subcontracted technician to get repeated service calls (and service call payments) to the same building address.

Wow - tin foil hat's on a little tight today, isn't it?

A BTS tech pulls a jumper with no dial-tone - on an non-standard installed service (you said they previously ran a direct drop from the JWI, as the wiring in your MDU's messed), and suddenly it's "malicious intent"?!?

To be honest, while it's a pain in the ass to be without internet, you're really starting to sound like the kind of customer company's don't mind losing. Threatening to sue, talking about mal intent, and generally being wound for sound...

If you legitimately need an internet connection to do business; then pay for a business service - they come with SLA's, priority repairs, etc, etc - but that service level comes with an appropriate cost.

I'm not trying to defend Bell (TSI pretty much doesn't have a horse in the race, other then being stuck in the middle) - but you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill, IMO...


xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

An incompetent Bell technician....

Gonna have to stop you right there. These clowns are not Bell technicians but employees of Bell's contractor Bell Technical Solutions. Bell dresses them up to look like Bell but they are not and it is an insult to all the actual Bell technicians to be lumped in with these incompetent monkeys.

I see this shit all the time from them. Dry loops should have dial tone on it as all Bell's do with anac capability. I haven't worked on a TSI dry loop lately but they should have dial tone as well. If not they are just asking for trouble with the BTS jerk-offs working near or on their circuits.

Rant over.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to milnoc

How do you know it's merely incompetence and not malicious?


bbiab

join:2004-05-26
reply to milnoc

There's supposed to be dial tone on a dry line?



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

said by bbiab:

There's supposed to be dial tone on a dry line?

Yes they all should, and nearly all do in my world for all my customers residential and business alike, including TSI dry loops, but its not a technical requirement.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
reply to bbiab

There's dialtone on most.. but you can't dial out anywhere..



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

said by koreyb:

There's dialtone on most.. but you can't dial out anywhere..

If there's dialtone, it should work for 611, 911, and ANI... But as has been correctly pointed out; there may or may not be dial tone...

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed

actually from experience.. 611 does not work... nor does any other... It's just dialtone. 911 does not work either.. This is false info being passed around. There is no legal responsibility for bell to provide any 911 on a non-active voice line. DRY DSL is not a voice line.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

Didn't say "WOULD" - I said should...

Depends on the OE what options for provisioning are available. Typically, 611, 911, and ANI are available - if your experience has been different, well, what can I say?


koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed

I've had 4 different dry lines, at 3 different locations/cities that I've had direct management of and they all have been the same with all numbers blocked and dial tone on the line. I've tested touch tone phones which won't register, and pulse just says the line is not equipped for out going calls.