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LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

1 edit
reply to milnoc

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

said by milnoc:

And if a company uses legal means to behave unethically, what does that say about the entire organisation?

If service isn't restored, I'll have to reconsider doing business with your company. Losing service like this due to blatant INCOMPETENCE is simply unacceptable.

Or maybe MALICIOUS INTENT. "Breaking" a customer's existing connection while working on another customer's connection would be a neat little way for a subcontracted technician to get repeated service calls (and service call payments) to the same building address.

Wow - tin foil hat's on a little tight today, isn't it?

A BTS tech pulls a jumper with no dial-tone - on an non-standard installed service (you said they previously ran a direct drop from the JWI, as the wiring in your MDU's messed), and suddenly it's "malicious intent"?!?

To be honest, while it's a pain in the ass to be without internet, you're really starting to sound like the kind of customer company's don't mind losing. Threatening to sue, talking about mal intent, and generally being wound for sound...

If you legitimately need an internet connection to do business; then pay for a business service - they come with SLA's, priority repairs, etc, etc - but that service level comes with an appropriate cost.

I'm not trying to defend Bell (TSI pretty much doesn't have a horse in the race, other then being stuck in the middle) - but you're making a mountain out of a mole-hill, IMO...


xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

An incompetent Bell technician....

Gonna have to stop you right there. These clowns are not Bell technicians but employees of Bell's contractor Bell Technical Solutions. Bell dresses them up to look like Bell but they are not and it is an insult to all the actual Bell technicians to be lumped in with these incompetent monkeys.

I see this shit all the time from them. Dry loops should have dial tone on it as all Bell's do with anac capability. I haven't worked on a TSI dry loop lately but they should have dial tone as well. If not they are just asking for trouble with the BTS jerk-offs working near or on their circuits.

Rant over.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to milnoc

How do you know it's merely incompetence and not malicious?


bbiab

join:2004-05-26
reply to milnoc

There's supposed to be dial tone on a dry line?



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

said by bbiab:

There's supposed to be dial tone on a dry line?

Yes they all should, and nearly all do in my world for all my customers residential and business alike, including TSI dry loops, but its not a technical requirement.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
reply to bbiab

There's dialtone on most.. but you can't dial out anywhere..



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

said by koreyb:

There's dialtone on most.. but you can't dial out anywhere..

If there's dialtone, it should work for 611, 911, and ANI... But as has been correctly pointed out; there may or may not be dial tone...

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·voip.ms

actually from experience.. 611 does not work... nor does any other... It's just dialtone. 911 does not work either.. This is false info being passed around. There is no legal responsibility for bell to provide any 911 on a non-active voice line. DRY DSL is not a voice line.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

Didn't say "WOULD" - I said should...

Depends on the OE what options for provisioning are available. Typically, 611, 911, and ANI are available - if your experience has been different, well, what can I say?


koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·voip.ms

I've had 4 different dry lines, at 3 different locations/cities that I've had direct management of and they all have been the same with all numbers blocked and dial tone on the line. I've tested touch tone phones which won't register, and pulse just says the line is not equipped for out going calls.



LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada

Not to get into a pissing match - I started in I&R 15 years ago, and have installed/tested 100's, if not 1000's of DSL and dry loop lines... Some do respond to the #'s I posted, some have unbreakable dial tone; some have no tone at all... Depends on the OE and provisioning...

Anyways, we're getting off the OP's topic... LOL



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to milnoc

We can safely assume that you have a 100% perfect work record with a single mistake ever since the first day you started working?
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



xbell

@cgocable.net
reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

Not to get into a pissing match - I started in I&R 15 years ago, and have installed/tested 100's, if not 1000's of DSL and dry loop lines... Some do respond to the #'s I posted, some have unbreakable dial tone; some have no tone at all... Depends on the OE and provisioning...

Anyways, we're getting off the OP's topic... LOL

That has been my experience and as far as on topic this is germane to the OP as TSI should have dial tone on dry loops to prevent accidental disconnects and pair swaps.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Inssomniak

+2



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to LazMan

"you're really starting to sound like the kind of customer company's don't mind losing."

I am so glad I do not have to deal with residential users anymore....
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

If I had my choice, I would have gone with Cogent. Three years at my datacenter, only two interruptions, you pay by speed only (no caps), and surprisingly less expensive than residential DSL.

Heck, their monitoring systems managed to detect the times when MY system went down!
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



Angelo
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by Angelo:

had that happen to my toronto home... too , debating upgrading speeds... vdsl is very tempting now lol

Thought you had vdsl already to speed building up your collection of Linux "ISO's"

had something else , but i do want that upload

balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

As a result of this, I have no other choice but to seek financial compensation above the current monthly Internet costs. Starting tomorrow, both TekSavvy and Bell Canada will be fined $100 EACH per FULL day that I'm without Internet service, up to a maximum of $7,000, the maximum amount that can be claimed in Quebec Small Claims Court.

It is time to make corporations financially responsible for their blatant incompetence.

That's funny, good luck with that.


Jerm

join:2000-04-10
Richland, WA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

said by balur:

said by milnoc:

As a result of this, I have no other choice but to seek financial compensation above the current monthly Internet costs. Starting tomorrow, both TekSavvy and Bell Canada will be fined $100 EACH per FULL day that I'm without Internet service, up to a maximum of $7,000, the maximum amount that can be claimed in Quebec Small Claims Court.

It is time to make corporations financially responsible for their blatant incompetence.

That's funny, good luck with that.

Yeah I feel bad for milnoc, but what did he think he purchased? Ten T1s with an SLA for uptime?

Residential service is "best effort" take it or leave it unfortunately. Damages would be limited to his monthly fee.

It probably is the "custom" line ran straight to the box that is the problem. To other techs it seems like someone stealing service LOL!

jibby

join:2008-03-31
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to milnoc

I feel for the OP here, since i caught the Bell guy f'ing up my line twice and both times i was told 'oh i didn't touch the main box' although he was standing beside it and the doors were open - i guess it was always just pure coincidence that my line would die when Bell guys showed up

and both times i was told to 'open a ticket' instead of just fixing what they broke while they were there

it's incompetence, i've seen them install lines in my building and to get at the line they're looking for they tug and pull at the main bundle, dislodging loose connections and crappy scotch loks

all it would take to not screw things up is to be careful and gentle - never happens.

also imo because they're sub-contracted, there's no consequences if they 'by mistake' kill a few other lines everytime they do an install

it just means more tickets for their company and more money


balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1

Don't get me wrong, I feel for the OP... but that doesn't make the reaction realistic.

Expand your moderator at work


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by nitzguy:



Listen, unless you can prove GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of Bell/Tech its a moot point, it was a simple accident, these things happen...

Just because 'accidents happen' does not mean that the victim is SOL.

You rear-end somebody in your car and what happens to the victim's repair costs? Either your insurance company pays, or you do out-of-pocket. Bell is self-insured & TSI is self-insured.

TSI is responsible to directly compensate the customer as they are the so called 'service provider'. Bell is responsible for contributory negligence in the same way that jerkass parents are if their kid leaves the moveable basketball post/net in the street at night and you drive down the road and smack into it (happens in Forest Hill where some people think they own the road too).

Yes....but in this case you're equating a car accident with a service interruption....the 2 are not the same.

TSI would have to provide restitution up to and including the days they are without service, so you take whatever rate he pays, and if its a 30 day billing cycle or a 31 day billing cycle, you divide accordingly, so 6 days in 30 days would be 1/5th of the months service...

So in an example, lets say he had unlimited DSL 25.... it would be 1/5th of 77.99/month...or a credit of roughly $15.59 on his account, not this $100/day from both TSI and Bell...if anything the TSI case would be thrown out as its not their technician and they wouldn't be found negligent...

Even in a small claims court, the burden of proof is still on the Plantiff to PROVE that there was negligence on the part of the Tech that he didn't want to do his job or actively cut the line, there again are these things called mistakes, but its not about insurance...

Again, you're trying to equate Car rules with service interruption rules and the 2 are mutually exclusive, he agreed when he signed on for the service to agree to the Terms and Conditions...he had an out, if he didn't want to exercise that out, that's his perogative...

Again I wish the OP luck.....but as others have said, maybe someone else would be happy to have his service....


nothingnew

@teksavvy.com
reply to milnoc

Happened to me several times when I had Dry loop DSL & lived in a condo.

I had two lines so I was never hard down but it was still ridiculous. My suggestion is that if you are working from home and rely on the connection then you should be diversifying to cover your ass. It sucks but it's necessary.



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

Luckily, I won't have to deal with this for too long. I'll eventually be moving back to my home town of Ottawa. Hopefully, I'll find better options there, or I just might create my own mini ISP.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



metalhawk

join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON

Ottawa... better options?!?!? Most of the city can't handle more than a few Mbps on DSL and Rogers is not what I call an alternative... Your only other alternative would be a different third party cable provider.



IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:1
reply to IIgs

Heading into day 3, and still without sync!

Apparently Bell decided not to do any work today and cancelled my dispatch (what a surprise!). Had to call back TSI and conference in with a Bell tech to set up another dispatch date. Not exactly a fun time, spent over an hour waiting to get through to someone at TSI. No comment about the bizarre looping hold "music", which is unfortunately now stuck in my head.

So now I have to wait for Bell again, with a dispatch not set until late evening (up to 9 PM). Will they show up? Will they actually resolve this whole mess and reconnect me?

It'll be interesting to see if they did pull out my line card in error...


Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

Also, for small claims court, you don't need a lawyer, and the fees are low. That was done intentionally so that people could demand fair compensation over issues in which the amounts involved don't justify a full court case.

IANAL. My suggestion is...
•talk to a real lawyer.
•ask him what charges could be filed against a 19-year old vandal who broke into the telecom room and maliciously cut someone's line
•ask about filing similar charges against Bell, with the added clause "through malice or negligence".
•as you pointed out, you are not Bell's customer, so they do not have a TOS that gives them immunity, anymore than the fictitious 19-year old vandal
•what Bell needs to straighten them out is having employees face jail time and/or criminal records for stuff like this. A $7K out-of-court-settlement is loose-change-in-the-sofa for a multi-billion dollar corporation
Expand your moderator at work


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to milnoc

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

Now waiting for the Bell tech to show up. Luckily, dslreports is streamined enough that I can actually post messages from my phone over Rogers.

Anybody wanna take bets as to when, or even IF, the Bell tech will show up? The appointment window is between 8 AM and 12 PM.

If it becomes a no-show, I may have no other choice but to cancel TSI and go to cable with Videotron. Not a pleasant outcome.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live