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balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1
reply to jibby

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

Don't get me wrong, I feel for the OP... but that doesn't make the reaction realistic.

Expand your moderator at work


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to MaynardKrebs

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by nitzguy:



Listen, unless you can prove GROSS NEGLIGENCE on the part of Bell/Tech its a moot point, it was a simple accident, these things happen...

Just because 'accidents happen' does not mean that the victim is SOL.

You rear-end somebody in your car and what happens to the victim's repair costs? Either your insurance company pays, or you do out-of-pocket. Bell is self-insured & TSI is self-insured.

TSI is responsible to directly compensate the customer as they are the so called 'service provider'. Bell is responsible for contributory negligence in the same way that jerkass parents are if their kid leaves the moveable basketball post/net in the street at night and you drive down the road and smack into it (happens in Forest Hill where some people think they own the road too).

Yes....but in this case you're equating a car accident with a service interruption....the 2 are not the same.

TSI would have to provide restitution up to and including the days they are without service, so you take whatever rate he pays, and if its a 30 day billing cycle or a 31 day billing cycle, you divide accordingly, so 6 days in 30 days would be 1/5th of the months service...

So in an example, lets say he had unlimited DSL 25.... it would be 1/5th of 77.99/month...or a credit of roughly $15.59 on his account, not this $100/day from both TSI and Bell...if anything the TSI case would be thrown out as its not their technician and they wouldn't be found negligent...

Even in a small claims court, the burden of proof is still on the Plantiff to PROVE that there was negligence on the part of the Tech that he didn't want to do his job or actively cut the line, there again are these things called mistakes, but its not about insurance...

Again, you're trying to equate Car rules with service interruption rules and the 2 are mutually exclusive, he agreed when he signed on for the service to agree to the Terms and Conditions...he had an out, if he didn't want to exercise that out, that's his perogative...

Again I wish the OP luck.....but as others have said, maybe someone else would be happy to have his service....


nothingnew

@teksavvy.com
reply to milnoc

Happened to me several times when I had Dry loop DSL & lived in a condo.

I had two lines so I was never hard down but it was still ridiculous. My suggestion is that if you are working from home and rely on the connection then you should be diversifying to cover your ass. It sucks but it's necessary.



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

Luckily, I won't have to deal with this for too long. I'll eventually be moving back to my home town of Ottawa. Hopefully, I'll find better options there, or I just might create my own mini ISP.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



metalhawk

join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON

Ottawa... better options?!?!? Most of the city can't handle more than a few Mbps on DSL and Rogers is not what I call an alternative... Your only other alternative would be a different third party cable provider.



IIgs
Premium
join:2002-10-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:1
reply to IIgs

Heading into day 3, and still without sync!

Apparently Bell decided not to do any work today and cancelled my dispatch (what a surprise!). Had to call back TSI and conference in with a Bell tech to set up another dispatch date. Not exactly a fun time, spent over an hour waiting to get through to someone at TSI. No comment about the bizarre looping hold "music", which is unfortunately now stuck in my head.

So now I have to wait for Bell again, with a dispatch not set until late evening (up to 9 PM). Will they show up? Will they actually resolve this whole mess and reconnect me?

It'll be interesting to see if they did pull out my line card in error...


Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

Also, for small claims court, you don't need a lawyer, and the fees are low. That was done intentionally so that people could demand fair compensation over issues in which the amounts involved don't justify a full court case.

IANAL. My suggestion is...
•talk to a real lawyer.
•ask him what charges could be filed against a 19-year old vandal who broke into the telecom room and maliciously cut someone's line
•ask about filing similar charges against Bell, with the added clause "through malice or negligence".
•as you pointed out, you are not Bell's customer, so they do not have a TOS that gives them immunity, anymore than the fictitious 19-year old vandal
•what Bell needs to straighten them out is having employees face jail time and/or criminal records for stuff like this. A $7K out-of-court-settlement is loose-change-in-the-sofa for a multi-billion dollar corporation
Expand your moderator at work


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to milnoc

Re: Incompetent technician cut off my Internet!

Now waiting for the Bell tech to show up. Luckily, dslreports is streamined enough that I can actually post messages from my phone over Rogers.

Anybody wanna take bets as to when, or even IF, the Bell tech will show up? The appointment window is between 8 AM and 12 PM.

If it becomes a no-show, I may have no other choice but to cancel TSI and go to cable with Videotron. Not a pleasant outcome.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1

said by milnoc:

Now waiting for the Bell tech to show up. Luckily, dslreports is streamined enough that I can actually post messages from my phone over Rogers.

Anybody wanna take bets as to when, or even IF, the Bell tech will show up? The appointment window is between 8 AM and 12 PM.

12:09PM. (Actually, that passed already)

said by milnoc:

If it becomes a no-show, I may have no other choice but to cancel TSI and go to cable with Videotron. Not a pleasant outcome.

Why Videotron and not a third party like TekSavvy, Electronic Box, Distributel (or Acanac), or whatever others I'm missing? Videotron internet is pretty damn expensive.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

At least I'll be dealing directly with the "last mile" owner. You seem to get better service that way whenever something goes wrong.

BTW, have I ever told you that it took TWENTY DAYS to get my two TSI business DSL lines for my office because Bell imposes a ten day delay on all third-party provider work including ordering mistakes?

The tech showed up at 10:20, spent an hour, but couldn't get me any higher than 8/1 on a line with a lot of errors. Before Sunday's interruption, I had a reasonably clean line. Not anymore!

And even with the 8/1 profile synching up, I can't log in anymore. So I'm still stuck with no Internet whatsoever, plus I've lost four hours of billing time because I couldn't assist my client with their own hardware.

Now after taking all of this into account, can you really blame me if I decide not to do business with TekSavvy anymore? I'm throwing money out the window here!
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
Reviews:
·Bell Sympatico
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

Anybody wanna take bets as to when, or even IF, the Bell tech will show up? The appointment window is between 8 AM and 12 PM.

I think they get their orders and appointment information from outside the country, something is lost in translation. I had one technician show up a day before a scheduled appointment due to "communication" issues. With university/college starting up I suspect they all are being overworked with new hookups.


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Jerm

When did best effort cover negligence?
There's no accountability anywhere.
TSI's not accountable, because it's bell's fault.
Bell's not accountable, because they outsource.
The outsourced tech is not responsible, because "he made a mistake".
It's a rotten setup, and the customer will still get dinged for the monthly fee, with or without service.
--
~ Project Hope ~



Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-01
IA
kudos:2
reply to milnoc

Maybe he was just lazy and found a better line for their customer?
--
I speak for myself, not my employer.



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to milnoc

If anyone from Vidéotron is reading this, make me a proper and reasonable deal (not the overpriced BS deals you have on your Web site), throw in the modem and free installation, and I'll sign up for six months.

I don't have much of a choice at this stage. If TSI can't get this problem fixed by the end of the week, I'll have to live at my office so that I can support my clients.

I never should have sent them that $100 Tim Hortons gift card a couple of years ago. It now feels as if I've rewarded failure.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
reply to milnoc

Is TSI cable available in your area? Why not get TSI to set you up on that? It deletes bell from the issue, and most times cable once it's working.. it stays working.



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

But who's going to pay for it? My DSL payment went through just a week before this incident. I'm still at the beginning of my billing cycle! And I'd still have to buy the modem for the cable service, plus the installation fees and the first month!

I already lost $60 on that "free" 16/1 upgrade promotion last February due to non converging billing cycles and fraudulent connection fees. Now I have to go through all of that again at two to three times the cost?

As I've said before, if Vidéotron can give me a reasonable deal that eliminates all of the initial fees, I'm in! It'll help minimize my losses.

And if that doesn't work out, I just might have to give up Internet service at home until I move out in the spring (not certain yet).
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·loclhost.ca
reply to milnoc

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"As a result of this, I have no other choice but to seek financial compensation above the current monthly Internet costs. Starting tomorrow, both TekSavvy and Bell Canada will be fined $100 EACH per FULL day that I'm without Internet service, up to a maximum of $7,000, the maximum amount that can be claimed in Quebec Small Claims Court."

Good luck there bud. lololol go read your ToS/AUP and you will find out how much you're entitled to. It's in French, so you should not have any trouble understanding.



rodjames
Premium
join:2010-06-19
Gloucester, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·loclhost.ca
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

Heading home now. I'll try to use a tether on my phone, but it might not work, or it'll be too slow. That means I'll have to stay at the office a lot longer just to have enough resources to complete my daily tasks.

Let's hope the tether doesn't work.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

2 recommendations

reply to milnoc

This thread is hilarious.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, anyone relying on Internet for income should always have 2 sources on 2 different physical mediums regardless if it's at a house or business (or apartment). I have 3 myself.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca



Angelo
The Network Guy
Premium
join:2002-06-18

at our place we have 3 lines also as our wifi is going up soon


koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

But who's going to pay for it? My DSL payment went through just a week before this incident. I'm still at the beginning of my billing cycle! And I'd still have to buy the modem for the cable service, plus the installation fees and the first month!

I already lost $60 on that "free" 16/1 upgrade promotion last February due to non converging billing cycles and fraudulent connection fees. Now I have to go through all of that again at two to three times the cost?

As I've said before, if Vidéotron can give me a reasonable deal that eliminates all of the initial fees, I'm in! It'll help minimize my losses.

And if that doesn't work out, I just might have to give up Internet service at home until I move out in the spring (not certain yet).

Why not speak with someone in management at TSI.. perhaps they can cut you a deal on the install or something to get you to cable.. OR simply put the DSL payment towards cable as you shouldn't be paying for days you are down.

I feel your pain, but if Bell has a history of cutting lines, I would be flipping to cable without second thought, as there is always costs involved no matter who you use.

koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW

join:2005-01-08
East York, ON
Reviews:
·VMedia
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to LazMan

said by LazMan:

Not to get into a pissing match - I started in I&R 15 years ago, and have installed/tested 100's, if not 1000's of DSL and dry loop lines... Some do respond to the #'s I posted, some have unbreakable dial tone; some have no tone at all... Depends on the OE and provisioning...

Anyways, we're getting off the OP's topic... LOL

My point was it's not constant and there doesn't seem to be a standard setup for dry loops, nor is there any legal requirement to provide 911. On this forum, it's been said its fact, when in fact it's clearly not.


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to Inssomniak

said by Inssomniak:

This thread is hilarious.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, anyone relying on Internet for income should always have 2 sources on 2 different physical mediums regardless if it's at a house or business (or apartment). I have 3 myself.

+1. If your livelihood depends on internet service to make a living...ALWAYS have a backup...Hell, a company I worked for back in 2000 had their almighty T1 and the super duper 128k ISDN line because my boss the IT manager said "You know it may cost us extra money, but I don't want to incur the wrath of the CEO if he can't get his email...." I believe the ISDN line was about $200/month if memory serves me correctly where we had a Burstable T1 that cost about $800 or so a month, maybe $1k...anywho...

Sometimes its that "indirect cost" that makes it worth it in situations like this....nothing is infoulable....we are human and are therefore prone to error...

Would it suck for me if Bell came and actively killed my service? Sure, would that mean I couldn't check my work email and schedules and stuff? Sure...but I pay $53/month taxes included...which is about $1.70/day...

If I wanted redundancy, I'd pay the extra $53/month for a second service in my apartment...ultimately though its up to the OP to decide....and again TSI would be happy to credit you or adjust the billing date as they did in my case once the service is up and running....so again, its up to you.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to Inssomniak

said by Inssomniak:

I've said it before, I'll say it again, anyone relying on Internet for income should always have 2 sources on 2 different physical mediums regardless if it's at a house or business (or apartment). I have 3 myself.

I have other sources such as the two lines at my office, and the connection at my main client's premises.

Let me repeat the main problem here. The line was DISCONNECTED! This was NOT a case of equipment breakdown. Even the Bell tech this morning confirmed the problem was NOT with my own equipment and wiring. It was entirely on their side.

If this were an equipment breakdown, I could understand that. It happens to my own gear sometimes. But when a company DEPRIVES me of a service I've paid for in advance either through malice or incompetence, and nothing is done to properly expedite the issue, I get extremely angry.

Unfortunately, the dirty line got worse. I arrive home to find the modem lost sync once again. So this morning's visit has been A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME. Four hours I've could have billed to my clients, now gone.

TekSavvy, you're on thin ice here! And I'm ready to bring out an axe!
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

You do keep using the words, malice, deprived, malicious, incompetence, but at the end of the day, it was an accident, no one is really out to get you. Oh and deprivation of internet never killed anyone. You are just unlucky. You can get a credit for the downtime.

My 4 years young central air conditioner broke on Friday, now, if you want to talk about torture beyond hell itself, and deprivation of sleep beyond functionality, compounded by 2 young girls and a wife. That my friend is far worse than no internet!!!
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

It's called an incident. An accident implies there's no one to blame.

(Hot Fuzz )

Two young girls and a wife?

You're gonna have fun when they become teenagers! LOL!

Just gave TSI an ultimatum. Switch me over to cable at their expense including the modem purchase, or refund the entire month and cancel my account. And that doesn't include the fines, lost revenues, and costs that I'll be demanding from both companies once I've worked out all of the numbers.

There's still room to reach a out-of-court settlement here though. I'm not that greedy. But it'll require both companies to recognize and acknowledge publicly their current and past mistakes, not only towards me with this incident, but also to everyone else who's had their lines cut for no valid or justifiable reason.

Stay tuned!
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to milnoc

Someone must have been paying attention to my frequent rants. The connection just came back up. It's maxing out at 13 Mbps from my computer instead of 16 Mbps, but that's the same as before the break, and it's to be expected since I'm using Wi-Fi instead of a wired connection to my router.

I'm still not certain of the connection's reliability though. We'll see what happens during the following days. I still might switch to cable if the problems persist, especially the problems dealing with Bell staff.
--
Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
»thecanadianpublic.com/live



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to milnoc

said by milnoc:

That's what the last technician did searching for a clean line when my service was upgraded from 5/800 to 16/1.

That sounds like a band 1 dry loop, so you'd probably be paying before tax $53.24 for 300GB or $67.24 for unlimited. Or if you have MLPPP, $57.24 or $71.24

Have you considered cable? For equivalent speeds (15 down, 1.5 up), it is cheaper in all cases. $50.95 for 300GB, or $57.95 for unlimited. No MLPPP required (since Videotron never throttled). The big price difference on unlimited is because Videotron UBB is much cheaper than Bell.

TBH I'd switch in an instant if I could just get decent upstream on cable...
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org