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boczar

join:2012-11-22
Redmond, WA
reply to cooldude9919

Re: My Structured Wiring Enclosure

I notice you've nicely attached your Monoprice patch panel in the enclosure. I'm working on a similar setup (although with the 14' version) and I realized, when receiving the patch panel, that the mounting wholes don't really align with the ones in the enclosure. How did you mount it?


cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
kudos:5

said by boczar:

I notice you've nicely attached your Monoprice patch panel in the enclosure. I'm working on a similar setup (although with the 14' version) and I realized, when receiving the patch panel, that the mounting wholes don't really align with the ones in the enclosure. How did you mount it?

I had to drill holes and find some really shallow bolts. To get everything to fit right i had to do that for a few items in there.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to Anon

If they sell 3ghz swept tested cable (example), why not use corresponding rated connectors? Is it necessary currently? No. But why not for all the same reasons that people advocate using Cat6 or Cat6a cables. There is NO RESIDENTIAL SERVICE that needs Cat6a speced cable. Gigabit runs perfectly well on Cat5e. 10G needs Cat6a, but fibers a better choice anyways and 10G is not a "residential service" anyways. There is also no reason to run Cat5 or 6 for voice. Just run a 4-wire flat cable. You aren't going to have any performance difference for phone conversations

I think a lot of the "structured" wiring is more expensive than it's worth personally, but a neat "wiring closet" is a nice thing to have. And if there is no choice but to have it in an otherwise out in the open exposed location, it's a nice way to have it organized and hidden.


kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter

[ There is also no reason to run Cat5 or 6 for voice. Just run a 4-wire flat cable. You aren't going to have any performance difference for phone conversations ]

Around here you have to use at least cat3 for phone. I thought that was national, but may not. It's my understanding that the usual 4 wire round cable (untwisted, red black green.yellow) was phased out years ago.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by kherr:

[ There is also no reason to run Cat5 or 6 for voice. Just run a 4-wire flat cable. You aren't going to have any performance difference for phone conversations ]

Around here you have to use at least cat3 for phone. I thought that was national, but may not. It's my understanding that the usual 4 wire round cable (untwisted, red black green.yellow) was phased out years ago.

You use cat3 only if you want. Otherwise in your house you can use whatever you want.
You do realize that there are millions of homes using the old 2 pair non-twisted don't you? Their phones work. Also there are millions of miles of underground cable that has been in use for decades long before cat anything.

Why put that high dollar wiring in a home and feed it with the same old? You're never going to have anything better than what your source is.


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting
reply to cooldude9919

The "flat" phone cord is crap. It is for short runs from the wall to the phone. It should never be used as interior wire. It acts like an antenna and picks up a lot of ingress.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.


telco_mtl

join:2012-01-06

said by nunya:

The "flat" phone cord is crap. It is for short runs from the wall to the phone. It should never be used as interior wire. It acts like an antenna and picks up a lot of ingress.

i second that, i live in an area with 4 AM transmitters within spitting distance, there used to be 6 and depending on the room in the house you are in you can hear a different station and thats with JKT, which isnt great but still better than the flat stuff

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Jack_in_VA

I'm just going by what the inspectors have said for years and years. You can use anything you want and it will work. They normally just use cat5e around here. Why have several different kinds of wire when they all cost basically the same. The better outfits use white for communication and blue for data.

You can use 14 gauge wire in the wall and it will work too, but if the code says 12, you use 12. If you don't use what is called for in code and get called on it, it's you that is fucked. Hell knob 'n tube wiring works too, but you don't see any new installs with that.

Out with the old technology in with the new



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by kherr:

Out with the old technology in with the new

I'm just saying the new technology will do nothing if you have the same old crap coming in. That's all.

kherr
Premium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL
Reviews:
·Charter

At the current rate of wireless phones, phone wiring may become extinct. But then again you might have a central device that receives the signal and distributes it to the house wiring. Then there's always Voip which I think will always be, at least for some time to come .........

Oh what the future holds .........


TheSMJ

join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI
reply to cooldude9919

Why wire for phones at all? Run all CAT5e/6/6a everywhere and either use RJ-11 jacks on the end, or get Ethernet jacks which also accept RJ-11 connectors.


cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
kudos:5

said by TheSMJ:

Why wire for phones at all? Run all CAT5e/6/6a everywhere and either use RJ-11 jacks on the end, or get Ethernet jacks which also accept RJ-11 connectors.

Thats what i did, i thought my posts explained that? Anyway yes i ran cat5e eveywhere, every jack in the house is cat5e that can accept rj45 or rj11. Depending on if i patch my panel into a network switch, or into my phone distrubtion panel, it will either be for phone or internet.

TheSMJ

join:2009-08-19
Farmington, MI

Err, so you did!

Sorry about the lack of reading comprehension.



beachintech
There's sand in my tool bag
Premium
join:2008-01-06
kudos:5
reply to Jack_in_VA

I had a hard time setting up my VoIP on 2 pair flat cable and the single pair nylon cord.
--
Ex-Comcast Tech at the Beach. I speak for myself, not my former employer.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10

1 recommendation

reply to TheSMJ

Never use RJ45 jacks for RJ11 phone cords, you will mangle the pins and make it useless for any RJ45 plugs you might use in the future.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus

said by sk1939:

Never use RJ45 jacks for RJ11 phone cords, you will mangle the pins and make it useless for any RJ45 plugs you might use in the future.

Some jacks are rated for either type of plug.


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

I have yet to meet one. Can you provide a link?



tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting

said by nunya:

I have yet to meet one. Can you provide a link?

I don't think it is a matter of the jack being compatible but rather the 6P plug needs to be narrow enough so as to not crush pins 1 & 8 when plugged into an 8P jack.

I've always played it safe and used 6P4C jacks for phone and 8P8C for data. But theoretical you should be able to plug in a 4 position plug into and 8 position jack without damage. But I've heard enough horror stories not to want to tempt fate. Plus using different style jacks makes it clear which one is for phone and which one is for Ethernet.

/tom

cooldude9919

join:2000-05-29
kudos:5
reply to cooldude9919

Thanks for the tip. It hasnt came up yet, if it does ill just make a custom phone cable with rj45 on one end and rj11 on the other. I have both style ends and a crimper so no problem there.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

1 edit
reply to telco_mtl

said by telco_mtl:

as much as i hate media panels, i personally prefer using a small rack attached to a backboard, i will say this is really really nice

Agreed. I put a board up, and gigamax panel with fiber/cat/RG6Qd bundles. (I was "lucky" to have free 50-90' scraps from a job...2pr of Cat5e, 1RG6Qd, 1 MultiMode fiber wrapped up).
I have a fiber backbone in a townhome!
--
Splat


PS. Great job!


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to fcisler

"anything falling onto the conductors results in hitting ground first"

The reasoning behind this makes since but has anyone here ever seen this happen personally with their own eyes? I've hear plenty of people tell this story but not a single one of them has seen it happen, it was always a second hand story.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by battleop:

"anything falling onto the conductors results in hitting ground first"

The reasoning behind this makes since but has anyone here ever seen this happen personally with their own eyes? I've hear plenty of people tell this story but not a single one of them has seen it happen, it was always a second hand story.

That may be but the "fact" that every one I've seen in a medical facility here is mounted with the ground up. Now that can't be just coincidence as some electrician would probably rotate them.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

Interesting debate on ground up/down.
»www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?i···9-23-99)

I think that I will be flipping my receptacles soon. Anyway, with a 4 month old daughter who will start walking/crawling soon, I'd want all my receptacles to be GFCI + tamper proof. Two birds one stone.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 edit

said by alkizmo:

Interesting debate on ground up/down.
»www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?i···9-23-99)

I think that I will be flipping my receptacles soon. Anyway, with a 4 month old daughter who will start walking/crawling soon, I'd want all my receptacles to be GFCI + tamper proof. Two birds one stone.

Below is why I think the NEC is nothing more than a bureaucratic joke comprised of mainly special interest people with their own agendas. They will require some stupid crap but if the proposals don't fit their agenda...forget it.

When you have manufacturers doing things on their own the NEC becomes even more irrelevant and suspect.

Later, I discussed this with Jack Wells of P&S. He thought it would be a good idea to require that the grounding slot be on top of the receptacle. So I submitted a Code Proposal. It was rejected. Jack and a few other CMP members were in favor...others were not. The proposal failed. But I believe I just may have started something. If you check the current catalogs of P&S, Hubbell, Arrow-Hart, and maybe others, you will find that the markings on the yoke (and on the GFCI reset and test buttons) are readable when the ground slot is positioned on top.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus
reply to nunya

said by nunya:

I have yet to meet one. Can you provide a link?

I knew I'd get asked that! The last jacks I bought at Lowe's stated on the package that it would accept both RJ11 and RJ45 plugs. I tossed the packaging, can't find that spec. online so I'll have to go to the store and take a picture of the package. I'll try to get it later on today, I recall being impressed that such an animal existed. Maybe the contact wires are mounted on springs that allow them to get out of the way if an RJ11 plug is inserted.

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to cooldude9919

that is very nicely done...better than what I did...

»picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ft···rectlink

what is that 2nd bracket holding all that f-connectors?



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA

Picture above related to second paragraph:

Manufacturers don't really have to change anything if the ground has to be up by code.
Neither do contractors, except to break a old habit.
No extra cost or effort required.

Actually, I wish they'd make dual outlet receptacles with opposite facing grounds. The ground would be UP no matter which way you install the receptacle, and you could use 90 degree extension cords on both outlets, as they'd both turn away from each others.

edit - Nevermind, I realize if nothing was plugged on the top outlet, then the bottom outlet wouldn't have the ground-up protection.


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
reply to garys_2k

Lowe's carries OnQ (PS&L).


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus

said by nunya:

Lowe's carries OnQ (PS&L).

Thanks. Navigating that site is like rubbing sand into my eyes. I'll try to take a pic of the package.


AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1
reply to alkizmo

you should patent that.