 Name GamePremium join:2002-07-07 North Myrtle Beach, SC kudos:7 | Australia won't back away from data retention planAnonymous restive as A-G restates case for government data trove By Simon Sharwood, APAC Editor
4th September 2012 07:02 GMT
Australias Attorney-General Nicola Roxon has re-stated the case for a European-style data retention regime, arguing that theres no point bringing a knife to a gun fight when it comes to protecting Australias interests.
In a speech delivered to the 2012 Security in Government conference in Canberra today, Roxon quickly addressed the argument that it is dangerous for governments to hold a lot of information about their citizens, saying:
We hold more information than ever before. This information is not only Government information but it is often personal information of Australian citizens. The responsibility we have to protect that information is immense. Because the information is now stored online it is also accessible to potentially more people within an agency increasing the risk of insider threat.
The Australian government is therefore turning up the heat on our own systems to ensure were secure from insiders who might have the ability and access to threaten our national security. That heating process is using a new Protective Security Policy Framework Roxon said has been
specifically written with an eye on the online environment and marks an important shift from a compliance based model to a risk management approach, providing guidance on how to identify risks, as well as the controls needed to mitigate them.
Her speech moved on to privacy and how it is, in her view, important to strike a balance between ensuring we have the investigative tools needed to protect the community and individual privacy.
That balance, she argues, can be achieved even under a regime that allows data retention, because it is such a useful investigative tool. »www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/04···on_plan/ -- Gladiator Security Forum »www.gladiator-antivirus.com/
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 | Securing such data will ultimately be impossible, yet governments (in the USA, Australia, Britain, etc.) routinely make bogus claims as to "protecting privacy" while at the same time forcing ISP's and "big data" companies to store all of our data. And do you think these entities will care about securing it (or waste resources doing it)? Hell no. The best way to secure data is to completely delete it.
Any time governments propose ideas like this, it *always* by default will open new security holes. The "good guys" are not the only ones who will be able to access the data -- I assure you that. It's the same with backdoors in software used for intercept purposes (as the FBI has been pushing for years now, especially for Skype). Once you introduce a backdoor, you have to *secure* the backdoor which is almost impossible.
BTW, the Australian government is also proposing a RIPA style law that would make not handing over your crypto keys illegal.
I recommend Schneier's speech he gave at RSA 2012. He goes into a little detail as why the biggest threat to the Internet are not hackers or criminals but governments and big data. He calls it "ill-conceived regulations from law enforcement." -- Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999 |
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| I don't think I could have said it better. Add into that the lack of funds, or initial funds over time drying up, you can see where the storage could turn into quite a mess of old software, controllers visiting facebook at work and the likes and exposing all of it to the world.
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| reply to Name Game »www.news.com.au/technology/the-o···74483368
THE debate surrounding the federal government's proposal to have internet service providers - ISPs - store the computer data of every Australian for up to two years amounts to hysteria, Attorney General Nicola Roxon claims. They really want this to be enforced.  |
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 StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium join:2000-08-06 Galt's Gulch kudos:2 Reviews:
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| said by norwegian:They really want this to be enforced.  Well don't feel special. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the US too 
Americans' private data to be kept 5 years
All your bases data are belong to us! -- Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow! |
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| It's the next wave.
First it was web filtering. So now if they can't filter, they will just plan store it all.
The Australia card came in, just not with a label as they initially planned it, this is the second wave they want implemented, and no doubt we will be stupid enough to keep letting them have their own way.
It will be just a number and file eventually and no it won't be about your guilt, it will be about your life path, it isn't so far away where they will have selective populations.  -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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| reply to StuartMW said by StuartMW:All your bases data are belong to us! Off the link: Scary stuff.
ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects. -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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 StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium join:2000-08-06 Galt's Gulch kudos:2 Reviews:
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3 edits | reply to norwegian Well The NSA Bob wants it all. A giant world-wide vacuum cleaner of data. And it'll all be kept a few hundred miles from me.
I'm sure you realize that any data collected in Australia will end up in Bob's databases as well. Maybe Australia will only hold stuff for 2 years but Bob is forever. -- Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow! |
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| I have no doubt at all and have no illusions over what this could mean to us all.
»www.ipa.org.au/publications/2095···security
"The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's demand to access Attorney-General Nicola Roxon's proposed data retention regime reveals how dangerous this regime could be," said Simon Breheny, Director of the Rule of Law Project at the free market think tank the Institute of Public Affairs.
The ACCC admitted on Friday that it wanted to use the government's proposed regime for its regulatory investigations into issues like petrol pricing.
"Data retention policies are concerning enough by themselves.
"But the ACCC has revealed that the government is using the threat of terrorism as a Trojan horse to give expanded powers to government bodies that have nothing to do with national security.
"The government says it wants to ensure that the trade-off between security and privacy is not disproportionate. Allowing regulators access to the data would be way over that line. The ACCC has no right to use evidence that has been collected for the purpose of national security investigations," said Mr Breheny.
"The practical effect of a data retention regime would be to create an Orwellian bank of private information on all Australian citizens."
"If we give security agencies more power, non-security regulators like the ACCC and the Australian Taxation Office will inevitably gain access to all Australian's private data. This is just another reason the data retention regime cannot be passed," said Mr Breheny.
Mr Breheny presented evidence to the Parliamentary Inquiry into National Security Reforms on Wednesday last week. -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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| »www.getup.org.au/campaigns/priva···-at-risk
The Government is considering the most sweeping and radical changes to Australia's surveillance and intelligence laws since the establishment of the original powers in 1979.
We've put together an informative video to explain the changes. Watch the video above and sign the petition to Attorney-General Nicola Roxon using our tool on the right, asking her to ensure these proposed reforms do not become law.
You can see the full text of the discussion paper here -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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| »www.itnews.com.au/News/315827,pa···iew.aspx
Parliamentary Committee urges privacy bill review Approves of amendments, seeks 12-month review.
A parliamentary committee inquiring into proposed amendments to privacy legislation has left the door open on companies hoping to defend against improper use of personal information sent overseas.
The committee rubber-stamped the Government's proposed legislative amendments this week but urged it to review the new regime a year after passing the bill to determine the success or progress of some of its elements.
Importantly, the committee suggested the Government reconsider whether to include an explicit defence against failure to abide by Australian Privacy Principle 8, concerning cross-border information disclosure.
The principle requires companies disclosing personal information to a foreign company or entity to take "reasonable steps" to ensure the receiving company does not breach those principles. -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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 BlackbirdBuilt for SpeedPremium join:2005-01-14 Fort Wayne, IN kudos:3 Reviews:
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| reply to norwegian said by norwegian:... ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects. The potential for mischief in this is profound. A person can be prosecuted by the government for what is on their computer and in their files... and an arm of government is given the right to manipulate that same data without the person's knowledge? It's a model setup for oppression. -- "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775 |
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 StuartMWWho Is John Galt?Premium join:2000-08-06 Galt's Gulch kudos:2 Reviews:
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| said by Blackbird:It's a model setup for oppression. Yup.
Australian and the US are very close allies (don't hear about that much in the US media). I wonder how much influence the US three-letter agencies are having in this. Australians don't have the same protections in their Constitution as do Americans (well in theory Americans have them). -- Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow! |
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| reply to Blackbird If you listen or read enough general discussion there seems to be a vast majority process in place leaning towards the governments of our nations taking control of the Internet. This should never happen.
There has always been the 'convict' pressure on the population from the past, I just hope enough of us care about the future enough to understand the ships full of convicts weighed anchor a long time and we do have a say today. We should not still feel our parents wrongs or misguided choices.
Let's look back for a minute: They sold the water, they sold the electricity, they sold the gas, they sold the milk, they sold all of the basic utilities and now they want to buy into the Internet, or take it over?
Am I missing something here? -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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 ashrc4Premium join:2009-02-06 australia 1 edit | said by norwegian:If you listen or read enough general discussion there seems to be a vast majority process in place leaning towards the governments of our nations taking control of the Internet. Like regulating it.
said by norwegian  They sold the water, they sold the electricity, they sold the gas, they sold the milk, they sold all of the basic utilities and now they want to buy into the Internet..... :No....regulate.
said by norwegian  Am I missing something here? :The avenue for taxing it in other ways...i.e. we are proving a (new) service that users could pay.
said by norwegian  This should never happen. :And very hard/messy to implement because of all the countries involved.
That just leaves Licensing it again. By this i mean using the licensing to regulate adult (18+) content access. Just like they do with shops that house this content. Not like other recommendations that wanted to regulate/license it for ability/privilege to commands one's use. -- Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT! |
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 KearnstdElf WizardPremium join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to Name Game I love how the governments of the world came down on Google for sniffing some data off insecure wifi. Yet the very same governments of the world state they need to be able to hoard data from people's computers in the name of national security. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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| reply to ashrc4 said by ashrc4: No....regulate.
So if you believe it is all to regulate, then what do you say to posts like this?
said by Blackbird:said by norwegian:... ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects. The potential for mischief in this is profound. A person can be prosecuted by the government for what is on their computer and in their files... and an arm of government is given the right to manipulate that same data without the person's knowledge? It's a model setup for oppression. Does that require a reply . . Regulate too? I can't see any regulation in there.
quote: reg·u·late/ˈregyəˌlāt/
Verb: Control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly. Control or supervise (something, esp. a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.
Last time studied English, rules and regulation does not give them the right to access my machine when they want. They can regulate the bandwidth, they can attempt to regulate the content, but none of that means they can access my computer and store all of it's info. Storing info to save police force expense is not regulating, well it is if you are a militia I guess, this is meant to be the free world, is it not?
On a side note: My daughter had her phone taken off her at work, all employees did, and my reply was "If you pay for the phone then you have control of it, if you don't pay for it, get out of my daughter's private things". This seems to be similar to this, they can try to take by their force anything they like, but if I pay to use it, they have no rights to it. I paid for the services and that is what I expect, not a tool that is presented with a parliamentary version of the world, and only ideals as per their wants while using my money, that is what my taxes are for not my own spending money! -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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 ashrc4Premium join:2009-02-06 australia | reply to norwegian said by norwegian:said by StuartMW:ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects. That point currently, does not carry as much weight here as it does for US citizens. The size and ability to affect more than a hand full of people at one time on the scale of misuse at any given time from ASIO would be far from the notion that some of these powers being allowed in the US.
It should be given valid consideration...yes. Trust must be earned and assurances here usually go without saying. You earn more votes here by outing the rouges than siding with the corrupt...Especially in parliament.
said by norwegian:Storing info to save police force expense is not regulating, well it is if you are a militia I guess, this is meant to be the free world, is it not?
When has this world ever been free (pre taxes maybe) The ability to store one's internet history (especially with multiple uses) and have it analyzed for serious crime takes serious time and effort that still has to be done in particular fashion in order to satisfy a judge. To think that ASIO is concerned with the general public that use the internet and therefore all must be scrutinized within an inch of there freedom's and then make out some/any are going to be set-up for whatever reason in this instance is pushing it a bit. There is no secret malitia that i know of that is combing through peoples search history looking to affect change other than private enterprise.  -- Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT! |
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| said by ashrc4:That point currently, does not carry as much weight here as it does for US citizens. The size and ability to affect more than a hand full of people at one time on the scale of misuse at any given time from ASIO would be far from the notion that some of these powers being allowed in the US.
It should be given valid consideration...yes.
Trust must be earned and assurances here usually go without saying. You earn more votes here by outing the rouges than siding with the corrupt...Especially in parliament.
Yes I am surprised at what the US is doing already. From the simple beginnings to a power who now wants to play lock down; I'm sure the pilgrims left the free world behind to find a fresh start......somehow no one imagined those fore-bearers would produce what you have today:
»Obama Admin. Re-Requests Indefinite Detention Power »CRS Memorandum on Targeted Killings
Just to name the first page. The world is quickly becoming a military force and dictatorship not a voted democratic, or republic where our voices are clearly heard without a Tiananmen Square type response from the authorities because they believe it threatens the seat in power. -- The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
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