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Name Game
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join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7

Australia won't back away from data retention plan

Anonymous restive as A-G restates case for government data trove
By Simon Sharwood, APAC Editor

4th September 2012 07:02 GMT

Australia’s Attorney-General Nicola Roxon has re-stated the case for a European-style data retention regime, arguing that there’s no point bringing a knife to a gun fight when it comes to protecting Australia’s interests.

In a speech delivered to the 2012 Security in Government conference in Canberra today, Roxon quickly addressed the argument that it is dangerous for governments to hold a lot of information about their citizens, saying:

“We hold more information than ever before. This information is not only Government information but it is often personal information of Australian citizens. The responsibility we have to protect that information is immense. Because the information is now stored online it is also accessible to potentially more people within an agency – increasing the risk of insider threat.”

The Australian government is therefore “turning up the heat on our own systems to ensure we’re secure from insiders who might have the ability and access to threaten our national security.” That heating process is using a new “Protective Security Policy Framework” Roxon said has been “…specifically written with an eye on the online environment” and “marks an important shift from a compliance based model to a risk management approach, providing guidance on how to identify risks, as well as the controls needed to mitigate them.”

Her speech moved on to privacy and how it is, in her view, important “to strike a balance between ensuring we have the investigative tools needed to protect the community and individual privacy.”

That balance, she argues, can be achieved even under a regime that allows data retention, because it is such a useful investigative tool.

»www.theregister.co.uk/2012/09/04···on_plan/
--
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»www.gladiator-antivirus.com/


KodiacZiller
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Securing such data will ultimately be impossible, yet governments (in the USA, Australia, Britain, etc.) routinely make bogus claims as to "protecting privacy" while at the same time forcing ISP's and "big data" companies to store all of our data. And do you think these entities will care about securing it (or waste resources doing it)? Hell no. The best way to secure data is to completely delete it.

Any time governments propose ideas like this, it *always* by default will open new security holes. The "good guys" are not the only ones who will be able to access the data -- I assure you that. It's the same with backdoors in software used for intercept purposes (as the FBI has been pushing for years now, especially for Skype). Once you introduce a backdoor, you have to *secure* the backdoor which is almost impossible.

BTW, the Australian government is also proposing a RIPA style law that would make not handing over your crypto keys illegal.

I recommend Schneier's speech he gave at RSA 2012. He goes into a little detail as why the biggest threat to the Internet are not hackers or criminals but governments and big data. He calls it "ill-conceived regulations from law enforcement."
--
Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999


norwegian
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Outback

I don't think I could have said it better. Add into that the lack of funds, or initial funds over time drying up, you can see where the storage could turn into quite a mess of old software, controllers visiting facebook at work and the likes and exposing all of it to the world.


FF4m3

@bhn.net
reply to KodiacZiller
+1


norwegian
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reply to Name Game
»www.news.com.au/technology/the-o···74483368

THE debate surrounding the federal government's proposal to have internet service providers - ISPs - store the computer data of every Australian for up to two years amounts to hysteria, Attorney General Nicola Roxon claims.

They really want this to be enforced.


StuartMW
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said by norwegian:

They really want this to be enforced.

Well don't feel special. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the US too

Americans' private data to be kept 5 years

All your bases data are belong to us!
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


norwegian
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It's the next wave.

First it was web filtering. So now if they can't filter, they will just plan store it all.

The Australia card came in, just not with a label as they initially planned it, this is the second wave they want implemented, and no doubt we will be stupid enough to keep letting them have their own way.

It will be just a number and file eventually and no it won't be about your guilt, it will be about your life path, it isn't so far away where they will have selective populations.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
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reply to StuartMW
said by StuartMW:

All your bases data are belong to us!

Off the link: Scary stuff.

ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



StuartMW
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3 edits
reply to norwegian
Well The NSA Bob wants it all. A giant world-wide vacuum cleaner of data. And it'll all be kept a few hundred miles from me.

I'm sure you realize that any data collected in Australia will end up in Bob's databases as well. Maybe Australia will only hold stuff for 2 years but Bob is forever.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


norwegian
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Outback
I have no doubt at all and have no illusions over what this could mean to us all.

»www.ipa.org.au/publications/2095···security

"The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's demand to access Attorney-General Nicola Roxon's proposed data retention regime reveals how dangerous this regime could be," said Simon Breheny, Director of the Rule of Law Project at the free market think tank the Institute of Public Affairs.

The ACCC admitted on Friday that it wanted to use the government's proposed regime for its regulatory investigations into issues like petrol pricing.

"Data retention policies are concerning enough by themselves.

"But the ACCC has revealed that the government is using the threat of terrorism as a Trojan horse to give expanded powers to government bodies that have nothing to do with national security.

"The government says it wants to ensure that the trade-off between security and privacy is not disproportionate. Allowing regulators access to the data would be way over that line. The ACCC has no right to use evidence that has been collected for the purpose of national security investigations," said Mr Breheny.

"The practical effect of a data retention regime would be to create an Orwellian bank of private information on all Australian citizens."

"If we give security agencies more power, non-security regulators like the ACCC and the Australian Taxation Office will inevitably gain access to all Australian's private data. This is just another reason the data retention regime cannot be passed," said Mr Breheny.

Mr Breheny presented evidence to the Parliamentary Inquiry into National Security Reforms on Wednesday last week.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
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»www.getup.org.au/campaigns/priva···-at-risk

The Government is considering the most sweeping and radical changes to Australia's surveillance and intelligence laws since the establishment of the original powers in 1979.

We've put together an informative video to explain the changes. Watch the video above and sign the petition to Attorney-General Nicola Roxon using our tool on the right, asking her to ensure these proposed reforms do not become law.

You can see the full text of the discussion paper here


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
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»www.itnews.com.au/News/315827,pa···iew.aspx

Parliamentary Committee urges privacy bill review
Approves of amendments, seeks 12-month review.

A parliamentary committee inquiring into proposed amendments to privacy legislation has left the door open on companies hoping to defend against improper use of personal information sent overseas.

The committee rubber-stamped the Government's proposed legislative amendments this week but urged it to review the new regime a year after passing the bill to determine the success or progress of some of its elements.

Importantly, the committee suggested the Government reconsider whether to include an explicit defence against failure to abide by Australian Privacy Principle 8, concerning cross-border information disclosure.

The principle requires companies disclosing personal information to a foreign company or entity to take "reasonable steps" to ensure the receiving company does not breach those principles.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Blackbird
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reply to norwegian
said by norwegian:

...

ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects.

The potential for mischief in this is profound. A person can be prosecuted by the government for what is on their computer and in their files... and an arm of government is given the right to manipulate that same data without the person's knowledge? It's a model setup for oppression.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


StuartMW
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said by Blackbird:

It's a model setup for oppression.

Yup.

Australian and the US are very close allies (don't hear about that much in the US media). I wonder how much influence the US three-letter agencies are having in this. Australians don't have the same protections in their Constitution as do Americans (well in theory Americans have them).
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


norwegian
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reply to Blackbird
If you listen or read enough general discussion there seems to be a vast majority process in place leaning towards the governments of our nations taking control of the Internet. This should never happen.

There has always been the 'convict' pressure on the population from the past, I just hope enough of us care about the future enough to understand the ships full of convicts weighed anchor a long time and we do have a say today. We should not still feel our parents wrongs or misguided choices.

Let's look back for a minute:
They sold the water, they sold the electricity, they sold the gas, they sold the milk, they sold all of the basic utilities and now they want to buy into the Internet, or take it over?

Am I missing something here?
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



ashrc4
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australia

1 edit
said by norwegian:

If you listen or read enough general discussion there seems to be a vast majority process in place leaning towards the governments of our nations taking control of the Internet.

Like regulating it.

said by norwegian See Profile
They sold the water, they sold the electricity, they sold the gas, they sold the milk, they sold all of the basic utilities and now they want to buy into the Internet.....

:

No....regulate.

said by norwegian See Profile
Am I missing something here?

:

The avenue for taxing it in other ways...i.e. we are proving a (new) service that users could pay.

said by norwegian See Profile
This should never happen.

:

And very hard/messy to implement because of all the countries involved.

That just leaves Licensing it again.
By this i mean using the licensing to regulate adult (18+) content access. Just like they do with shops that house this content. Not like other recommendations that wanted to regulate/license it for ability/privilege to commands one's use.
--
Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT!


Kearnstd
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reply to Name Game
I love how the governments of the world came down on Google for sniffing some data off insecure wifi. Yet the very same governments of the world state they need to be able to hoard data from people's computers in the name of national security.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports


norwegian
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reply to ashrc4
said by ashrc4:

No....regulate.

So if you believe it is all to regulate, then what do you say to posts like this?

said by Blackbird:

said by norwegian:

...

ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects.

The potential for mischief in this is profound. A person can be prosecuted by the government for what is on their computer and in their files... and an arm of government is given the right to manipulate that same data without the person's knowledge? It's a model setup for oppression.

Does that require a reply
.
.
Regulate too? I can't see any regulation in there.

quote:
reg·u·late/regylt/

Verb: Control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.
Control or supervise (something, esp. a company or business activity) by means of rules and regulations.
Last time studied English, rules and regulation does not give them the right to access my machine when they want. They can regulate the bandwidth, they can attempt to regulate the content, but none of that means they can access my computer and store all of it's info. Storing info to save police force expense is not regulating, well it is if you are a militia I guess, this is meant to be the free world, is it not?

On a side note:
My daughter had her phone taken off her at work, all employees did, and my reply was "If you pay for the phone then you have control of it, if you don't pay for it, get out of my daughter's private things". This seems to be similar to this, they can try to take by their force anything they like, but if I pay to use it, they have no rights to it. I paid for the services and that is what I expect, not a tool that is presented with a parliamentary version of the world, and only ideals as per their wants while using my money, that is what my taxes are for not my own spending money!
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



ashrc4
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reply to norwegian
said by norwegian:

said by StuartMW:

ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects.

That point currently, does not carry as much weight here as it does for US citizens.
The size and ability to affect more than a hand full of people at one time on the scale of misuse at any given time from ASIO would be far from the notion that some of these powers being allowed in the US.

It should be given valid consideration...yes.
Trust must be earned and assurances here usually go without saying.
You earn more votes here by outing the rouges than siding with the corrupt...Especially in parliament.

said by norwegian:

Storing info to save police force expense is not regulating, well it is if you are a militia I guess, this is meant to be the free world, is it not?

When has this world ever been free (pre taxes maybe)
The ability to store one's internet history (especially with multiple uses) and have it analyzed for serious crime takes serious time and effort that still has to be done in particular fashion in order to satisfy
a judge.
To think that ASIO is concerned with the general public that use the internet and therefore all must be scrutinized within an inch of there freedom's and then make out some/any are going to be set-up for whatever reason in this instance is pushing it a bit.
There is no secret malitia that i know of that is combing through peoples search history looking to affect change other than private enterprise.
--
Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT!


norwegian
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said by ashrc4:

That point currently, does not carry as much weight here as it does for US citizens.
The size and ability to affect more than a hand full of people at one time on the scale of misuse at any given time from ASIO would be far from the notion that some of these powers being allowed in the US.

It should be given valid consideration...yes.

Trust must be earned and assurances here usually go without saying.
You earn more votes here by outing the rouges than siding with the corrupt...Especially in parliament.

Yes I am surprised at what the US is doing already. From the simple beginnings to a power who now wants to play lock down; I'm sure the pilgrims left the free world behind to find a fresh start......somehow no one imagined those fore-bearers would produce what you have today:

»Obama Admin. Re-Requests Indefinite Detention Power
»CRS Memorandum on Targeted Killings

Just to name the first page. The world is quickly becoming a military force and dictatorship not a voted democratic, or republic where our voices are clearly heard without a Tiananmen Square type response from the authorities because they believe it threatens the seat in power.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



ashrc4
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australia
Compulsory Voting seems to be my suggestion to slow/alter/inject more democratic type of values back into the fray.
You only need to pander to those that vote and confuse those that don't, to stay in power.
When your ability to win ensures that most of the public need to agree with you on most things it will change the political landscape closer inline with what people want.
If you guys could just implement it for a while.
--
Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Dying to defend one's small piece of suburb...Give me something global...STAT!


Blackbird
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reply to ashrc4
said by ashrc4:

said by norwegian:

said by StuartMW:

ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge, according to the provisions laid out in the proposal, putting an ethical question mark over the legitimacy of evidence gathering when it comes to prosecuting suspects.

That point currently, does not carry as much weight here as it does for US citizens.
The size and ability to affect more than a hand full of people at one time on the scale of misuse at any given time from ASIO would be far from the notion that some of these powers being allowed in the US. ...
said by norwegian:

Storing info to save police force expense is not regulating, well it is if you are a militia I guess, this is meant to be the free world, is it not?

... To think that ASIO is concerned with the general public that use the internet and therefore all must be scrutinized within an inch of there freedom's and then make out some/any are going to be set-up for whatever reason in this instance is pushing it a bit.
There is no secret malitia that i know of that is combing through peoples search history looking to affect change other than private enterprise.

Not being a citizen of Oz, I have no pony in their races. But it ought to be noted by the folks who are citizens there that data squirreled away by ASIO has two elements that need to be considered as possible risks: first, it may ultimately be made public as it passes into Australian National Archives. Second, and more important, ASIO has been accused of bias and agenda-based manipulation in the past regarding how information is used (abused?) and selectively released. Regardless of whether one is left or right in their orientation, it becomes dangerous (as I noted earlier, profoundly dangerous) when an arm of the government is given power to manipulate data on a person's computer while that same government has the power to prosecute a person for what is on their system. If an agency has demonstrated past willingness to follow a political agenda with its data troves and practices, what makes anyone believe it will not also manipulate data on "opponents' " systems for those same political agendas? Regardless of who is in power (left or right), the laws and precedents will already be in place for the other side to abuse once they come to power... and this is the stuff oppression is made of.

From Australian National Archives: Personal information in ASIO records – Fact sheet 53:
quote:
... Most ASIO records held by the Archives relate to the investigation and surveillance of individuals, groups and organisations. ... These records, like most other Commonwealth records, are eligible for public release under the Archives Act 1983.
...
Because ASIO records are exempt from the Freedom of Information Act, subjects of ASIO records, unlike subjects of most other Commonwealth agency records, are unable to request that information which is recorded about them on ASIO records be changed if it is incomplete, incorrect, out of date or misleading. ... The subject of an ASIO file may, if he or she wishes, provide the Archives with a written statement identifying information contained in the file that is believed to be inaccurate.
...
From Australian Security Intelligence Organisation:
quote:
... ASIO has been accused of executing an agenda against the Left of politics since its inception. In the 1960s, ASIO was also accused of neglecting its proper duties because of this supposed preoccupation with targeting the Left. Like other Western domestic security agencies, ASIO actively monitored protesters against the Vietnam War, Labor politicians and various writers, artists and actors who tended towards the Left. Other claims go further, alleging that the Organisation compiled a list of some 10,000 suspected Communist sympathisers who would be interned should the Cold War escalate.
...
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


ashrc4
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australia
I would love to look at my archive.....especially if it were accurate.
I'd be more interested in it, if it could be used enmasse to do things like intern people these days.
Oh wait Asylum seekers, Muslims of interest.
The problem with this approach is that once they initiate such a proposal (intern) they also have to live with the consequence of doing just that.
Today ASIO plays a secondary role in investigating (clearing mainly) Asylum Seekers and most that don't pass are only detained until alternative arrangements can be made.
That political landscape has long since changed.
In some countries and sphere's the radicalization of some Muslim groups has well and truely taken the main focus.

Yet no allegations of doing anything other than gathering intelligence and archiving it seems to be worth mention at this time. Allowing, should protocol be followed, warrants/search orders etc. to look at a persons search history seems reasonable IMHO.

said by Blackbird:

left or right in their orientation, it becomes dangerous (as I noted earlier, profoundly dangerous) when an arm of the government is given power to manipulate data on a person's computer while that same government has the power to prosecute a person for what is on their system.

ASIO would also be given the power to install, delete and manipulate software on people's computers without their knowledge

Just to clarify are we not seeing the word "software".

I know this is not a draft from the legislation but to manipulate the content of someone's documentation or images would fall outside of this.
--
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norwegian
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said by ashrc4:

Just to clarify are we not seeing the word "software".

I know this is not a draft from the legislation but to manipulate the content of someone's documentation or images would fall outside of this.

I haven't read all of the document, but page 48 of the document at the getup.org link suggests they didn't have permissions but would be happy for it to change. "Authority for acts necessary to execute a computer access warrant"
About allowing previously prohibited actions, how much are they expecting?
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StuartMW
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reply to ashrc4
said by ashrc4:

That point currently, does not carry as much weight here as it does for US citizens.
The size and ability to affect more than a hand full of people at one time on the scale of misuse at any given time from ASIO would be far from the notion that some of these powers being allowed in the US.

That assumes that the US 3-letter agencies aren't involved in this (and I bet they are to some degree). The NSA et al are already in Australia (e.g. Pine Gap) and have been for decades.
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Blackbird
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reply to ashrc4
said by ashrc4:

... Just to clarify are we not seeing the word "software".

I know this is not a draft from the legislation but to manipulate the content of someone's documentation or images would fall outside of this.

From the GetUp! text of the document (Discussion Paper)...

Page 10, section 11, para c:
quote:
Enable the disruption of a target computer for the purpose of a computer access warrant
Page 11, Section 17, para a:
quote:
Using third party computers and communications in transit to access a target computer under a computer access warrant
Page 48, Section 3.2, second and third paragraphs on page:
quote:
Subsection 25A(5) currently restricts ASIO from doing anything under a computer access warrant that adds, deletes or alters data or interferes with, interrupts, or obstructs the lawful use of the target computer by other persons. This prohibition operates regardless of how minor or inconsequential the interference, interruption, or obstruction may be.

To address this, section 25A could be amended so that the prohibition does not apply to activity proportionate to what is necessary to execute the warrant.
page 50, Section "Use of third party computers...", third para:
quote:
... it may be appropriate to amend the ASIO Act to enable a third party computer or communication in transit to be used by ASIO to lawfully access a target computer.
I suppose one could argue that this all only applies to legally forcing the turnover of encryption keys and the interception of data flow to/from the computer of an alleged criminal computer. But it seems to me that terms such as "disruption of a target computer", "using third party computers... to access a target computer", and lifting the prohibition against ASIO of action that "adds, deletes or alters data... of a target computer" all sound like the target computer and its software/data will be allowed to be remotely "messed with" by ASIO. This, coupled with the accusations over the years about ASIO's political agendas, are what I believe raise the concern about the thrust of the discussion paper.

Obviously, a great deal depends on the independence and judicial integrity of the warrant process, and how effectively it is policed. Perhaps that's no problem in Australia, but I'd not bet that way...
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


norwegian
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reply to Name Game
The following is an update on what sort of data is to kept. I think if this is all, most is already stored, so why the need to address it, all my bills come with phone times,dates etc, so why is this specifically what they are requesting? There is also mention of the EU version? Has anyone experience at that level to help understand this more?

They do note, content will be excess-able under certain conditions - does that mean they will request the data itself be stored as well?

»www.itnews.com.au/News/316325,as···sal.aspx

'Metadata' gains meaning.

The Federal Government's proposed data retention regime would serve to combat authorities' "eroding" ability to access communications data in investigations, Australia's key spy organisation has argued.

In a surprising submission to the joint parliamentary committee investigating the proposed national security reforms, ASIO said it sought to clarify the type of data telcos and Internet Service Providers would be required to hold for up to two years under such a scheme.

The metadata, which it termed "communication assisted data", would include the user's identification; origin and destination of the communication; time, data and duration; type of communication and device used; as well as the location of the user during that communication.

"In this context, agencies are not seeking access to the content of communications," ASIO argued (pdf), though it noted it could separately access such content using certain warrants.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
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»www.itnews.com.au/News/309291,au···nts.aspx

The head of the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) has warned IT security challenges "pose one of the biggest threats of the decade", as the security landscape makes covert intelligence operations more difficult for agents.

Director-general Nick Warner said this week that despite the Federal Government spending "considerable resources" on boosting intelligence-gathering capabilities for ASIS and other Australian authorities, use of the internet and closed networks to collect information had become dangerous for the spy agency's staff.

»www.itnews.com.au/News/308218,go···pts.aspx

Raises technical, regulatory issues.

Cloud providers and social networks could be obliged to capture and store customer information for lawful interception under a new proposal by the federal Attorney-General's department.

The proposal is part of a wide-ranging review of telecommunications interception and intelligence community legislation Attorney-General Nicola Roxon referred to a parliamentary committee in May for further consideration.

In a 61-page discussion paper released on Tuesday (pdf), the department said it was considering whether to expand the interception regime beyond its existing scope of telcos and internet service providers.

The department looked to include the "broad range of current telecommunications industry participants" that had grown since the law's inception in 1979.

It highlighted social networks and cloud computing providers, whose exclusion under current legislation created "potential vulnerabilities in the interception regime that are capable of being manipulated by criminals".

"Consideration should be given to extending the interception regime to such providers to remove uncertainty about the application of industry obligations in relation to agency requests and to better position Australia to meet domestic and international demands," the discussion paper notes.


--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
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1 edit
Interesting link and insight:

»blog.serkowski.net/2012/09/manda···-rights/

Mandatory Data Retention Irreconcilable with Fundamental Human Rights

by Roderick on September 19, 2012

Revisiting our submission to a previous inquiry into privacy, I think it has a very good section on data retention and some of the other proposals currently being considered in the National Security Inquiry.

Data Retention

Last month it was revealed that the Federal Government Attorney-General’s Department had been for some time considering the implementation of a legislatively mandated telecommunications data retention regime in Australia and had been approaching Internet Service Providers (ISPs) with respect to the extent to which data could be retained. The compulsory standard to which the Department has signaled it was investigating equivalency with was the European Data Retention Directive.

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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
reply to Name Game
There has been a meeting - an inquiry is in place - talk about fast, this was just discussed and now an inquiry in as many days? I didn't think anyone moved that fast?

Australia's police commissioners want to help draft laws that would allow them to access the public's telecommunications data for up to two years.

Police would ideally prefer the information be held by telecommunication companies indefinitely, so it could be accessed by police at any time

But the commissioners say their motives are "pure", and they simply want their crime-fighting tools to be brought into the 21st century.

»www.smh.com.au/technology/techno···kj2.html
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke