Topic 'Re: Question is though' in forum '' - dslreports.com

Re: Question is though

Thu, 06 Sep 2012 19:56:58 EDT

BiggA posted : I'd rather have service when I travel- that's the time that mobile data is the most useful...

Re: Question is though

Thu, 06 Sep 2012 01:48:38 EDT

WhyMe420 posted :

I have "unlimited" data now, "unlimited" up to 5Gb. It's too slow to ever use that much though. Are they saying that 3G iPhones will be able to get 3G on the 1900Mhz network? I kind of doubt that will work since my 4G Samsung Exhibit II can't get 3G on 1900Mhz now and it was sold for use on T-Mobile!

I have a factory unlocked 4S on T-Mobile and I get full strength 3G ("4G") in my house!

3G covers a good bit of the city but a lot of EDGE when I go too far out... Covers a good 90% of areas on my daily commute...

Here's my post at T-Mo forum :-

»support.t-mobile.com/message/175790#175790

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 18:59:29 EDT

Bahamut X posted :

said by ArizonaSteve:

Use the OpenSignalMaps site or the Android app and you can see the different locations of 3G and 4G towers.

If I use that site sitting at home... or work... or any other place I happen to travel west of downtown Fort Worth, then by THEIR site, I should have 0 signal. Nothing at all, be it 2G or 3G based services (UMTS, HSPA of any flavor, et al).

I'll sit here and believe my phone and my tablet, which is telling me that it has access to HSPA based speeds, over a 3rd party site that tells me I should have nothing at all...

Or better yet, the T-Mobile engineering map (which the link is liberally posted around here), which also shows I should be able to max out whichever device I have sitting around me.

@clone: This gentleman (ArizonaSteve) has had many times been shown how his information can be... flawed, but yet, continues to state that somehow his UMTS based device can only get "4G" service, can fall back to EDGE, but cannot somehow access "3G" towers, despite the fact that both the marketing "4G" and the factual "3G" are the same thing. One example can be found here where, once facts started coming out, esp comparing frequency bands on various phones, he kinda... disappeared.

Facts are facts. Marketing says the new stuff is "4G" (although true 4G comes next year... wonder how they'll spin it, even though it's just 3G with a supercharger attached), but it all uses the same base UMTS setup on the AWS spectrum (and soon PCS spectrum). There is no differing "3G" and "4G" towers, though it could be possible a tower has not been upgraded from 7.2 mb/s standard to the newer HSPA+ standard, but even then, the phone would still show potentially only a "4G" signal (unless rooted, then Cyanogen might show either "H" or "3G", I've seen both on my rooted Galaxy S2).
--
I work at T-Mobile. I play games and enjoy time off of work. I've been a member here longer than I've worked there. I have my own opinions, they do not hold anything to T-Mobile USA, etc etc etc... :D

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 17:31:35 EDT

clone posted : Please, do some research before you make yourself sound any more uninformed. Not to get into a pissing match, but trust me. I know what I'm talking about.

UMTS, Universal Mobile Telecommunications System (link)

Specifically, see the releases at the bottom. HSPA+ is the name of a revision of the data protocol. WCDMA is the air interface that protocol (and all of the UMTS family protocols) use.

Pro Tip: OpenSignalMaps data is garbage. I can force my phone to "GSM ONLY" mode (or have a European Android phone that has no USA 3G bands on it), then be the only person who has reported signal from a given cell site. Now, according to OpenSignalMaps, that is a "2G" tower, even if in reality the site is also an HSPA+84 site. (Just an example of how the data can be skewed.)

If your phone shows that you are getting "4G", that

is 3G HSPA+. Marketing departments have utterly confused you (and most consumers).

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 14:15:57 EDT

ArizonaSteve posted : Clone said: "T-Mobile's 3G and 4G service are exactly the same service/network/cell sites, etc. The "4G" service is just a term their marketing department is using to describe their HSPA+network. HSPA+ is just software revision of their original 3G standard. So if your phone is compatible with T-Mobile 4G, it is also compatible with T-Mobile 3G."
That seems to be a myth a lot of people are spreading but is Absolutely NOT TRUE! Use the OpenSignalMaps site or the Android app and you can see the different locations of 3G and 4G towers.
In the Phoenix area 3G and 4G are on different towers even though both are on 1700Mhz and 4G is only available near T-Mobile stores while 3G is not! 3G uses HSPA+ while 4G uses WCDMA. There are 6-7 2G and 3G towers around me but only 1 4G tower about 2 miles away so it's too weak to pickup. Note that OpenSignalMaps says T-Mobile 4G is 3.5G.
My 4G Samsung Exhibit II gets only 4G with WCDMA and CANNOT get 3G using HSPA+ even though they are both on 1700Mhz. Yes, I know they are similar protocols but certainly not interchangeable.

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 13:14:41 EDT

mmay149q posted :

said by Metatron2008:

said by mmay149q:

said by Metatron2008:

You mean Verizon is still chugging along. If you leave the city with At&t you either get edge or nothing.

So true, I've actually seen it in action, told the person they should get VZW and showed them the full signal on my phone.

Matt

I currently have a galaxy s3 (upgraded from a 4s) on at&t and a droid charge on verizon, so I've seen it myself too ;)

High five me bro, I'm rockin' the S3 as well on VZW :D

Matt
--
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. -Albert Einstein

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 13:14:10 EDT

mmay149q posted : Wow, I will applaud you, most I've ever done is 30GB's, and that was on my 1st ever LTE phone from VZW (Unlimited grandfathered, and every time I go in they want to take it away >:O) -bows-

Matt
--
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. -Albert Einstein

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 11:30:43 EDT

clone posted : I was just referring to the OP, who was concerned that his T-Mobile branded AWS compatible phone won't work on PCS 3G/4G. There is no reason to be concerned about 1900MHz UMTS on a phone that will probably be an artifact by the time AWS is deprecated.

I realize there are huge benefits to using compatible frequencies both for handset availability/cost and roaming, etc, and that the AWS spectrum will eventually be re-farmed for LTE. T-Mo's spectrum plan is a good one, I just wonder why some people are so concerned about it.

As for penetration, the base station-to-handset channels in the current AWS spectrum should theoretically provide better in-building coverage than PCS, while the handset-to-base station channels are theoretically worse. In everyday use, I don't see much difference between AWS and PCS.

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 10:11:03 EDT

Bahamut X posted :

said by clone:

So, why would you even want 3G on 1900MHz (PCS), when you are already getting it on 1700/2100MHz (AWS)?

A) International telephones/the iPhone.

Take any Eurospec phone (International Galaxy devices pre-GS3, HTC devices) or an iPhone, and since the T-Mobile AWS frequencies are typically not supported on these phones. Opening up the 1900 MHz freq. to greater than EDGE speeds means these phones can/will work to their full capacity.

B) The LTE rollover.

Almost all of the newer T-Mobile phones released actually do support both AWS and PCS 3G/4G frequencies. It is easier for customer usage to upgrade the GSM network finally instead of building into the AWS frequencies. This permits new phones to continue using their fully capable high speed radios whilst giving the ability for T-Mobile to free up the AWS spectrum for LTE deployment. Just have to look at those customers still using older GSM telephones and potentially upgrading them to something... newer.

3) Penetration:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't 1900 MHz spectrum give "marginally" better building penetration than a 2100 MHz spectrum buildout?
--
I work at T-Mobile. I play games and enjoy time off of work. I've been a member here longer than I've worked there. I have my own opinions, they do not hold anything to T-Mobile USA, etc etc etc... :D

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 09:33:05 EDT

clone posted : I have seen people post about this before, and I think many readers are very confused. For simplicity's sake, let's use the proper terminology for the network technology here. There are currently 3 GSM network types available:

1. Original 2G GSM which includes GPRS and EDGE data standards. T-Mobile runs a GSM/GPRS/EDGE network in the PCS 1900MHz band. It uses a TDMA-based air interface.

2. 3G GSM. This is actually called UMTS (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System). This includes HSDPA/HSUPA (which combine to form "HSPA"), and HSPA+21, HSPA+42, and HSPA+84 data standards. T-Mobile currently runs a UMTS/HSPA network, which in many areas is upgraded to HSPA+ (21, 42, etc.) in the AWS 1700/2100MHz band. It uses a Wideband (5MHz channel) CDMA air interface called, wait for it, WCDMA.

AT&T runs one of these networks, too, and they also call it 4G (even though it's a 3G network at heart). It runs in the 850MHz Cellular and 1900MHz PCS bands. This is important, as every iPhone ever made is designed with 850/1900 in mind for AT&T users. This is why T-Mo is starting to offer *limited* UMTS service on the 1900MHz band, so they will be compatible with the other large UMTS carrier in the United States.

3. 4G LTE. This is the "Long Term Evolution" network. Completely IP-based. Includes the LTE Advanced standard. T-Mobile does not have one of these, yet. Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint currently have live LTE networks in the United States.

T-Mobile's 3G and 4G service are exactly the same service/network/cell sites, etc. The "4G" service is just a term their marketing department is using to describe their HSPA+network. HSPA+ is just software revision of their original 3G standard. So if your phone is compatible with T-Mobile 4G, it is also compatible with T-Mobile 3G.

So, why would you even want 3G on 1900MHz (PCS), when you are already getting it on 1700/2100MHz (AWS)?

Iin T-Mobile world, if you have any UMTS/WCDMA based service (short of the very few cities currently offering UMTS on PCS), from standard UMTS data/voice all the way up to HSPA+42, you are using the same network and towers as every other T-Mobile 3G/4G user.

All that being said, I don't believe T-Mobile is decomissioning any UMTS-based services in the AWS band as of yet. Considering 100% of their installed userbase (that is not still using a GSM-only handset) is currently using UMTS in the AWS band.

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 08:57:12 EDT

Bahamut X posted :

said by ArizonaSteve:

I kind of doubt that will work since my 4G Samsung Exhibit II can't get 3G on 1900Mhz now and it was sold for use on T-Mobile!

Maybe because at the time they didn't have the refarm of the 2G spectrum in place, so all the 3G/4G connections were AWS based?

I could blow 5 GB out of the water on occasion... hell, 2 GB only lasts a couple of hours if Charter goes out... :\ All on a device that's HSPA... so none of the really fancy modifiers like +21 or +48.. you know, high speed phones.

In regards to your unlimited comment... perchance, recall the story posted recently here. Seems like you can choose now between 5GB limits (but unlimited transfer, just not all at the maximum speeds your phone can go) and the ability to tether, or no tethering, and the ability to go absolutely nuts with data usage...
--
I work at T-Mobile. I play games and enjoy time off of work. I've been a member here longer than I've worked there. I have my own opinions, they do not hold anything to T-Mobile USA, etc etc etc... :D

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 01:23:51 EDT

Metatron2008 posted :

said by mmay149q:

said by Metatron2008:

You mean Verizon is still chugging along. If you leave the city with At&t you either get edge or nothing.

So true, I've actually seen it in action, told the person they should get VZW and showed them the full signal on my phone.

Matt

I currently have a galaxy s3 (upgraded from a 4s) on at&t and a droid charge on verizon, so I've seen it myself too ;)

Re: Question is though

Wed, 05 Sep 2012 01:08:03 EDT

ArizonaSteve posted : I have "unlimited" data now, "unlimited" up to 5Gb. It's too slow to ever use that much though. Are they saying that 3G iPhones will be able to get 3G on the 1900Mhz network? I kind of doubt that will work since my 4G Samsung Exhibit II can't get 3G on 1900Mhz now and it was sold for use on T-Mobile!

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 23:51:35 EDT

whfsdude posted :

said by mmay149q:

I can understand 50 gigs over "4G" but 200? WTF are you doing? Downloading every pr0n you can find?!

I feel like that would be more than 200 gigs.

Streaming music (FLAC) via my Subsonic server. Some light tethering. I have a CLEAR data stick so tethering is rare. Lots of podcasts. I would HDMI out to a monitor and watch well I fell asleep. I also streamed TWiT live fairly frequently.

Screenshot of the data counter (last month it worked for my plan): »willscorner.net/tmp/3g_bragging_rights.png

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 23:19:33 EDT

mmay149q posted :

said by Metatron2008:

You mean Verizon is still chugging along. If you leave the city with At&t you either get edge or nothing.

So true, I've actually seen it in action, told the person they should get VZW and showed them the full signal on my phone.

Matt
--
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. -Albert Einstein

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 23:15:21 EDT

Metatron2008 posted : You mean Verizon is still chugging along. If you leave the city with At&t you either get edge or nothing.

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 22:53:41 EDT

mmay149q posted :

said by whfsdude:

said by mmay149q:

How long with T-Mobile offer "truly unlimited"? Will this just be a 1 year thing like Verizon did before they locked it down to caps and overages? Only time will tell...

I'm on a grandfathered unlimited plan and doing anywhere from 50 - 200 gigs a month. I've been doing this for years now without a peep.

I can understand 50 gigs over "4G" but 200? WTF are you doing? Downloading every pr0n you can find?!

Matt
--
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. -Albert Einstein

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 22:30:51 EDT

DataRiker posted : I've found the first to accuse without basis are the most guilty.

It's almost as predictable as gravity.

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:45:51 EDT

JigglyWiggly posted : you used 2 terabytes in a thread in the comcast seciton
what are you doing
seeding child pr0n?

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:02:05 EDT

whfsdude posted :

said by BiggA:

The problem is still that as soon as you leave the city, you've basically go nothing, whereas AT&T and Verizon are still chugging along.

That's definitely a consideration but for me I would prefer a really good network 90% of the year and I can survive with EDGE the other 10%. Considering most of the US population lives in urban areas, there is a viable business model for this.

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 20:00:21 EDT

whfsdude posted :

said by mmay149q:

How long with T-Mobile offer "truly unlimited"? Will this just be a 1 year thing like Verizon did before they locked it down to caps and overages? Only time will tell...

I'm on a grandfathered unlimited plan and doing anywhere from 50 - 200 gigs a month. I've been doing this for years now without a peep.

Re: Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 19:31:07 EDT

BiggA posted : If anyone has the network to do it, it's T-Mobile. It's very modern, has densely spaced sites, and relatively few users. The problem is still that as soon as you leave the city, you've basically go nothing, whereas AT&T and Verizon are still chugging along.

Question is though

Tue, 04 Sep 2012 18:16:30 EDT

mmay149q posted : How long with T-Mobile offer "truly unlimited"? Will this just be a 1 year thing like Verizon did before they locked it down to caps and overages? Only time will tell...

Matt
--
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. -Albert Einstein