 DSL987
join:2000-03-22
Helotes, TX | reply to Bob
Re: costco gas said by Bob:But whose specification? The EPA's or the vehicle manufacturer's? Which would you follow?
Honda endorses the use of Top Tier Gasoline. Should I ignore them?
The detergents in Top Tier Gasoline are the same regardless of grade. The only difference is the octane rating.
Refiners follow industry and Governmental standards when making gasoline. It's hard enough to keep up with the different Federal and then State specific specs as it is. If they start making gasoline to car makers wishes as well it would be even more chaotic than it already is.
Honda may endorse Top Tier fuels, but they don't mandate it. Many cars also have "Premium recommended" on their filler caps, but you don't have to use it.
The manufacturers will make cars according to what fuels are available, not for fuels they wish were available.
If you want to get Top Tier fuel then by all means do it. |
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 CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
1 edit | reply to Bob
quote:
Honda endorses the use of Top Tier Gasoline. Should I ignore them?
None of my Honda's (3 so far for the last 20 years or so) demand top tier and all ran perfectly fine since I never used it. Combined miles by the 3 cars is just a bit under 300K miles of my actual driving.
So - it is safe to ignore it since it is merely a suggestion.
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Brian
"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey | How do you know your cars are running "perfectly fine"? I'll fall back on my experience of using Lukoil gasoline exclusively for a year, then having my catalytic converter fail. |
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CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | Ummmm - not one issue of ever needing any type of repair that can be remotely liked to gas. Perfectly fine means just that. No drop in MPG other than seasonal and I only had to replace one cat due to the pipe flange rusting. Even my mufflers rusted from the outside in.
I took care of the cars - the Honda wagon had a radiator go bad but that has nothing to do with top tier fuel.
Even took the oldest car ('89 Honda Civic HB I bought in '94 or '95 with 46K on the clock) to the race track 6 times in total (never even replaced the clutch). Flogged it on tracks like Mid-Ohio for an entire weekend and then drove it home. Never a hiccup... Had it 18 years myself and sold it with over 214K miles on it. Replaced a main relay at 200K miles or so.
There can be several reasons for a bad cat - contaminated gas is one of them. But then - top tier does not guarantee contaminate free gas. Nor does it mean that if it isn't top tier - the gas is crap.
»www.all-catalytic-converters.com···ip3.html - some reasons for cat failures.
Contaminated fuel is pretty rare - it just happened recently but it is still very rare unless the tanks are in bad shape - but then - top tier does not protect against bad tanks.
--
Brian
"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain |
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| reply to VegasMan
said by VegasMan:I'll pass on what my manual says. It says 87. No mention of premium. Odd I guess but I have found other miss prints in the book also.
I bought the SHO for a reason, if I wanted 20% less hp I would have bought the Limited. 
I don't think it's anywhere near a 20% deficit. All Ford says is reduced horsepower. They never say what that is. However they say that torque stays the same and torque is what you feel and does the work. The old saying is "you buy Horsepower but drive torque". I don't think I've seen dyno numbers either way. Either way the car runs like a bat out of Hell.
I know when it's hot (high 80s plus) and I'm in traffic and step on it you can slightly feel the engine pull timing with the cheap gas. But after a few minutes on the highway or when the temp cools off you can't feel it.
I'm still doing more testing on premium vs regular and mpg. So far it seems it's a wash. |
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| reply to Bob
said by Bob:How do you know your cars are running "perfectly fine"? I'll fall back on my experience of using Lukoil gasoline exclusively for a year, then having my catalytic converter fail.
You do realize that's no proof of Lukoil being bad. How many millions of gallons of the stuff do they sell every year?
How old was the car? Any check engine lights, weird running, etc? All that can toast a cat regardless of the gas. |
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 VegasManAre We There Yet?Premium
join:2002-11-17
Schaumburg, IL | reply to itguy05
said by itguy05:said by VegasMan:I'll pass on what my manual says. It says 87. No mention of premium. Odd I guess but I have found other miss prints in the book also.
I bought the SHO for a reason, if I wanted 20% less hp I would have bought the Limited.
I don't think it's anywhere near a 20% deficit. All Ford says is reduced horsepower. They never say what that is. However they say that torque stays the same and torque is what you feel and does the work. The old saying is "you buy Horsepower but drive torque". I don't think I've seen dyno numbers either way. Either way the car runs like a bat out of Hell. I know when it's hot (high 80s plus) and I'm in traffic and step on it you can slightly feel the engine pull timing with the cheap gas. But after a few minutes on the highway or when the temp cools off you can't feel it. I'm still doing more testing on premium vs regular and mpg. So far it seems it's a wash. Ford has stated that it is around a 20% drop in HP. It was mentioned on one of the car shows I watched while researching before I bought.
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In need of a Vegas vacation.
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey Reviews:
 ·Optimum Online
| reply to itguy05
Of course there's no proof. But Lukoil is a Russian company, and I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally used excessive levels of MMT to boost their octane. Hell, they sold bad gas around here that left dozens of cars stranded on the side of the road.
No problems at all with the car until one day the check engine light came on with a code for a bad catalytic converter. |
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| As long as we're throwing out conspiracy theories, it's more likely (to me, at least) that Honda is in some sort of "marketing agreement" with the top tier folks and money is changing hands as a result. Quid pro quo. |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey | 1. MMT is allowed in gasoline.
2. MMT damages catalytic converters.
3. Top Tier Gasoline is not allowed to contain MMT. |
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CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | Your post proves nothing, ziltch, nada, nothing. |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey | It proves that Top Tier Gasoline is like chicken soup - It couldn't hurt. |
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| reply to CylonRed
Honda WILL void warranty if they find ANY traces of MMT in the engine. It's written in BOLD in owners manual. I am not an RTFM guy but running thru the pics and WHAT!!!???? I read that book inside and out... Yup, if you got an old beater Honda put Canola but if it is under warranty than you may have to think twice. |
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| reply to VegasMan
said by VegasMan:Ford has stated that it is around a 20% drop in HP. It was mentioned on one of the car shows I watched while researching before I bought. Interesting - I don't remember them quoting an actual figure other than "these #s were on premium". I tried searching and came up with nothing. Got a link? |
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| reply to Bob
said by Bob:Of course there's no proof. But Lukoil is a Russian company, and I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally used excessive levels of MMT to boost their octane. Hell, they sold bad gas around here that left dozens of cars stranded on the side of the road.
No problems at all with the car until one day the check engine light came on with a code for a bad catalytic converter. So they are Russian? Who cares. Every brand has sold bad gas at one time or another.
And you still have no proof that their gas caused your issue.
quote:
Honda WILL void warranty if they find ANY traces of MMT in the engine. It's written in BOLD in owners manual. I am not an RTFM guy but running thru the pics and WHAT!!!???? I read that book inside and out... Yup, if you got an old beater Honda put Canola but if it is under warranty than you may have to think twice.
Yet another reason to never buy a Honda. Way overrated POS cars that are really not the "engineering miracles" people think they are. |
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 linicxCaveat EmptorPremium
join:2002-12-03
United State
 ·CenturyLink
| reply to m8trix
I swear gasoline quality varies from state to state. I love BP in NM but it isn't worth much where I live in rural America. I am 50 miles from the nearest name brand stations like Shell. There is one Kroger store that sells gas in a 100 mile radius. The only Costco within 300 miles won't open until next year.
I have an F-150. The manual says regular or high octane gas. The problem is I've always lived in Ethanol states. I get better mileage with Casey's or Kroger's. My local BP store has items I buy regularly but not gas.
My cousin delivered gas. He said most additives were mixed in at the fuel farm, and sometimes he also added before a station dump. The thing is unless a company is delivering their own fuel you don't know what you are getting because mistakes happen even with E10.
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Mac: No windows, No Gates, Apple inside |
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peterboroAvatars are for posersPremium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON | reply to itguy05
said by itguy05: I buy the cheapest gas I can find (marketing BS aside, it's all the same) and have not noticed a difference in MPG or performance. Same here except I use high volume stations and with 7.5 to 1 compression ratio I can run Bronze as well if I am not going to get into more than 5 pounds boost. |
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CylonRedPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County | reply to Bob
Except in the pocketbook for many places. |
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| well, I use Shell. it's a bit further than Sunoco but 10c cheaper on an avg. It has never been higher, just to be crystal clear.
update -- Sunoco is NOT part of Top Tier Gas Retailers. |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey | reply to CylonRed
The cheapest gas station around here is Exxon (Top Tier). They're usually cheaper than the neighboring Costco (which doesn't accept Visa or Mastercard). |
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