harald
join:2010-10-22
Columbus, OH
kudos:1 | reply to Jack_in_VA
Re: Sewer flooding Yes, I can. I get a bill every three months.
The Sierra Club sued Columbus, Ohio and won, so the combined sewer overflows are being fixed by one of several ways. The most recent, and expensive, is boring some large tunnels to hold the sewage from high-rain events until it can be treated.
I was going to question your statement that the majority of American cities have combined systems, but it seems that you are absolutely right. One paper says that in the east where they are prevelant they service twice the area that separate systems do. |
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boombie
join:2000-12-01
Milwaukee, WI Reviews:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to fartness
Here is another option
It is a plug you put in your floor drain.
It has a float that if the water rises in the floor drain it will seal the drain and will unseal when the water recedes.
»www.plumbingsupply.com/floodguard.html
I picked mine up at home depot.
I had 3" of sewage in my basement after a heavy rain about 8 years ago. MMSD told me to file a claim with my insurance, they weren't responsible. That claim was over $8000 I installed the float plug and have had rain similar to the one that flooded my basement,went into the basement and saw the float was up and sealing the drain. I have replaced it once as the metal parts do rust, and it's cheap insurance.
Paul |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey | reply to Jack_in_VA
We have separate storm and sanitary sewer systems where I live. In fact, every place I've ever lived has had separate systems. |
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 Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to boombie
said by boombie:Here is another option
It is a plug you put in your floor drain.
It has a float that if the water rises in the floor drain it will seal the drain and will unseal when the water recedes.
»www.plumbingsupply.com/floodguard.html
I picked mine up at home depot.
I had 3" of sewage in my basement after a heavy rain about 8 years ago. MMSD told me to file a claim with my insurance, they weren't responsible. That claim was over $8000 I installed the float plug and have had rain similar to the one that flooded my basement,went into the basement and saw the float was up and sealing the drain. I have replaced it once as the metal parts do rust, and it's cheap insurance.
Paul
Here you can add a rider to your homeowners insurance for sewer back up. |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | said by Jack_in_VA:Here you can add a rider to your homeowners insurance for sewer back up.
I'd rather pay a little bit extra and assure myself it will not happen.
I mean... ewwww you know? |
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 KenPremium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN | reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:The majority of American cities have "combined sewer". Can you imagine the cost to run separate piping for storm water now?
Certainly many older cities have combined systems, but I don't think they are in the majority any more. Anything new today uses a separate storm and sanitary sewer. I think if you factor in all the costs long term 2 separate systems isn't as expensive as it seems.
Unlike a combined sewer that is a complete network of pipes and lift stations all leading back to a single point, with a storm sewer you can dump it out at various convenient locations into streams, rivers and lakes. Also since you are dumping it out in various places you can use gravity a lot more to do the work and you wouldn't need nearly as many or possibly zero lift stations for the storm sewer. So while it obviously cost more than just not having it in the first place, it's not as expensive as just taking the entire existing combined system and duplicating it.
The cost savings comes in when you look at the sewage treatment plant. With a combined system you have to either have an enormous treatment plant capable of holding every gallon of water from a heavy storm, or a smaller treatment plant that dumps raw sewage into the rivers and streams during heavy storms. Those places that dump sewage during storms are now all trying to build larger treatment plants or larger holding capacity. With a separate system all of the rainwater is going through the storm sewer and being dumped out, and only the sanitary sewer is being treated. I think once you factor in the cost savings of treatment vs the cost of the storm sewer over the long term, the difference isn't nearly as expensive as you might think. |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:Here you can add a rider to your homeowners insurance for sewer back up. My insurance company adds that as standard to all policies for homes. You can remove it if you want a few bucks back.
quote:
HO-95X Water Back-up Coverage - The standard policy does not provide coverage for any loss caused by water which backs up through sewers or drains. However, the HO-95X endorsement provides up to $5,000 for this type of loss. The maximum benefit limit is concurrent with your other coverage amounts; it does not increase the total limit of Coverage A (Dwelling) for HO-2, HO-3 and HO-6 or Building Additions and Alterations for HO-4, B (Other Structures), C (Personal Property) or D (Loss of Use) stated in your policy declarations.
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| reply to fartness
Stories like this make me glad I have a septic tank. Yes I know, they have their own set of issues, but having sewage flooding into my house during a rainstorm isn't one of them. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:said by Jack_in_VA:Here you can add a rider to your homeowners insurance for sewer back up.
I'd rather pay a little bit extra and assure myself it will not happen. I mean... ewwww you know? So would I but even back-flow devices can fail with disastrous results. That's just like those here who don't think they need flood insurance and guess what. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1 | said by Jack_in_VA:So would I but even back-flow devices can fail with disastrous results. That's just like those here who don't think they need flood insurance and guess what.
Some people think they don't need volcano insurance and guess what.  |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | said by alkizmo:said by Jack_in_VA:So would I but even back-flow devices can fail with disastrous results. That's just like those here who don't think they need flood insurance and guess what.
Some people think they don't need volcano insurance and guess what. You may think you're being cute and catty. Guess what you aren't. People whose homes get flooded in 100 year or 500 year events suffer catastrophic loses and is not something to deride. Low cost flood insurance is worth the investment. |
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BobAccount deleted
join:2012-07-22
New Jersey Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| reply to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:Some people think they don't need volcano insurance and guess what. My homeowners insurance here in New Jersey includes coverage for volcanic eruption. It's listed in the policy. Really. (But earth movement as a result of volcanic eruption is not covered.) |
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| reply to fartness
We had 3 sewer backups at our old house last year due to all the rain. Never had any in the 12 years we lived there but we also had the 100 year event last year.
It cost us about $1200 for the plumber to install the valve. The valve (RectorSeal) was provided by the sewage authority as a means of helping us out so I don't know what that cost.
What I was told (and passed on to the new homeowners) was lift it out and check it every 6 months and replace it if it looked bad (cracked, etc).
I know it worked as after we had it installed a week later we got 4 inches of rain and it stopped it from flooding the basement. When it trips no sewage can get out of the house so you do have to plan for that. Small price to pay not to have your neighbors crap in your basement! |
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| reply to fartness
Storm water should not be coming in through your sanitary sewer. Many cities had combined sewer/storm water systems, but the EPA mandated that sanitary and storm water sewer systems had to be separated, so that storm water won't back up into homes or overwhelm the sewage treatment plants and cause raw sewage to overflow and discharge into the waterways.
The deadline to separate the systems was several years ago, but not every city completed the job. Atlanta was fined thousands of dollars a day by the EPA for every day they were non-compliant after the deadline. They finally finished in the last couple years. |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | duplicate |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | reply to 8744675
Sorry to inform you but that is incorrect. Cities were required to stop dumping untreated sewage in the waterways during high rainfall events. There is a difference. Some cities like Richmond, VA built holding basins to collect it for later treatment.
To separate it would require every street to be torn up and new lines run and connected to every drain on the street. A cost no city is able to bear. |
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 leiboldPremium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:6
 ·SONIC.NET
| said by Jack_in_VA:To separate it would require every street to be torn up and new lines run and connected to every drain on the street. A cost no city is able to bear. In some parts of the country that may be true (especially in less densely populated areas where a temporary holding tank or pond is feasible). As far as I can tell all the cities around here have opted for the dual pipelines (sewer drain to the water treatment plants and storm drains to the nearest creek or directly into the bay) since land is a precious commodity and hard to come by.
From what I heard over the years that separation project wasn't done all at once and isn't complete either. There doesn't have to be 100% separation as long as enough storm water is kept out of the sewers to prevent overflow conditions at the treatment plant.
There are 3 scenarios where there are still significant amounts of storm water enter the sewer system:
- old parts of the combined storm / sewer system still in place because the condition of the pipes hasn't justified a replacement yet.
- property owners illegally draining gutter downspouts or surface water (parking lots) into the sewer pipes.
- storm water entering through sewer manhole covers when the storm drains are overwhelmed and streets are partially flooded (not much that can be done about this one except improve the storm drains).
As far as I know our city has been okay but every once in a while you see the news that one of the bay area cities gets fined because their waste water facility was forced to let untreated water run into the bay. A lot of those facilities treat way more waste water then they were originally designed for due to the population growth in the area (and storm water separation helps with that problem too).
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire! |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | It is illegal to dump surface water into a steam, James River or the Chesapeake Bay even if you could run pipes that far. All surface water from roof drains, parking lots, streets etc drains into the sewer system here and ultimately goes to the treatment plant or is diverted to the river when extreme rainfall causes overflows.
In the outlying areas without sewers they are installing holding basins (ponds) to pipe the rain water runoff to instead of just letting it runoff into streams. |
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robbinPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1 | Under what jurisdiction is it illegal for storm water to go into streams and other drainage systems there? |
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Jack_in_VAPremium
join:2007-11-26
Mathews, VA
kudos:1 | EPA and the agreements with them to clean up the bay. All streams go to the Chesapeake Bay. Understand now? |
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