dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
5343
share rss forum feed

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA

Re: Sewer flooding

I understand that you live on the bay. What I am wondering is how is it done. County by county? Within x miles of the bay?



chmod
Premium
join:2000-12-12
Lockport, IL
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by alkizmo:

said by Jack_in_VA:

Here you can add a rider to your homeowners insurance for sewer back up.

I'd rather pay a little bit extra and assure myself it will not happen.
I mean... ewwww you know?

So would I but even back-flow devices can fail with disastrous results. That's just like those here who don't think they need flood insurance and guess what.

Had a back flow device fail in a 3 story business complex in the basement. It was the only time I told my boss at that time I can't do this. Disgusting.
--
Some people are like Slinkies. Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

We had some friends at the bottom of a hill in Richmond that did not have any protection. Something went wrong with the sewer and flooded their home and all the ones around. The city would not pay for the damages. You can't believe the stench and mess.



Indeedy

@videotron.ca
reply to fartness

said by CylonRed:

So you want them to design for - your words:
"Yesterday, we got the most rain in over 130 years. "

Good luck with that - will not happen in ANY municipality. Emphasis mine.

Yes it will. Happened here. People took the city to court after so many times. Gov stepped in and gave the money when people went higher up. It's a design flaw and also not capable of actually supplying a growing city, and they likely knew it when it was installed decades ago. Many cities will go through this, or already have.

In addition, with the changes in weather they have to account for "30-year events, 50 year events, 75 year events and 100-year events. If this is happening on a yearly event or even a 5 year event, then the city has to be sued to fix their problem.

said by ArgMeMatey:

Be advised that backwater valves are not always easy to install because of the strict vertical offset requirements. They are also best located somewhere easy to reach because they should be checked regularly to make sure debris is not jamming the valve open, which would prevent it closing in a "sewer surcharge" event.

The only foolproof method is to put an overhead sewer in your basement, so any overflow would go out of the nearest upstream manhole. This of course means you need an ejector to pump any sewage from fixtures in your basement.

Yeah. I think when I was having my nervous breakdown over this forum a couple of years ago when I bought this house and found all this out, all the history of the area, it was you and "Jack in VA" who explained it all to me, and since then the city engineers. Which basically regurgitated what you guys said.

I believe we touched on failure rates of back flow preventers (or back-water valves). The standard home depot stuff is anywhere from 6 weeks to 3 months tops. The engineers even gave me this info a little while after we discussed it here.

So if he goes with the standard home depot stuff, he should be clearing it out before a vacation, or before a major storm happens. Or at least 4 times a year (min).

Other than that, yeah.. you get into ejector pumps or pressurized backwater valves.

I recall posting pictures a few years ago when they started the work. My street is next summer. A plumber goes in each home, digs the basement and whatever other work they have to do to put one in, and in addition to this they put one on each device in the basement. So that means a backwater valve at the wall exit. One in the basement toilet. One on the basement shower, then the laundry room etc etc. Each device. All paid by the city. They will be digging up half my driveway and lawn as well.

In addition the "pseudo sewer system" being removed is replaced with a true split system. The largest in Canada from what I read.

said by Juggernaut:

Edit to add, if it's rain, it's a storm sewer and not sanitary.

No.

So in regards to "fartness" and his concerns and nervous breakdown to come Don't give an inch to the city. Take them for everything you can. Every little screw you lost and total decontamination costs.

You should be talking with neighbours and get a dozen or so of them together and go split the costs of a lawyer among you all to force your city to pay every little thing possible. None of this crap about you paying the plumber or back-water valve. In addition the lawyer should make a demand about getting it fixed since what you stated shows it's a fault in the city design and system that can't handle a minor event.

Consider this and talk about it with others. Split the costs among a small gang of you to fight back. Or get walked on by the city as you give them your tax money for nothing.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to robbin

said by robbin:

I understand that you live on the bay. What I am wondering is how is it done. County by county? Within x miles of the bay?

It's actually the entire Chesapeake Bay watershed which includes most of Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania and D.C.



Above is the Virginia territory.

Combined Sewer Overflow (CSO) Locations in Virginia




Above is the U.S. areas that have combined sewers.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
reply to Bob4

The sewer backup insurance is not expensive. My premium is only $15 per year.



fartness
computersoc dot com
Premium
join:2003-03-25
Look Outside

What is the deductible, and is it a separate deductible, say if a storm knocks your roof off?



Indeedy

@videotron.ca
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

The sewer backup insurance is not expensive. My premium is only $15 per year.

You have a diff sewer design. Maybe a non-finished basement? WHo knows.

I know over here there are some houses/area's they will not even insure. I have it, but it will only cover up to something like 15K. They won't give more.

Most insurance companies are very wise to what area has what. I expect this guy to get bare minimum, 10-15K coverage. But the US may be different when it comes to insurance. Certainly isn't a 15$ add-on here when in a problem area.

Even with the millions being spent to refurb everything to surpass code. I call the INS and said I should be getting a reduction since the risk is low and the risk is limited to a 100 year event. Girl on the phone laughed at me and said, "insurance never goes down". Told me to bring the issue up with some Canadian board to force a review.

I expect I will have to get some signatures and the engineers reports before they stop laughing at me.

I expect no less in the states... But then again, we here horror stories here about how they don't pay out when things happen...

I'm curious what they will tell him. Let us know...

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

My insurance company has lowered rates in the past. They even give me 5% of my premium back when I renew.



Indeedy

@videotron.ca

said by Bob4:

My insurance company has lowered rates in the past. They even give me 5% of my premium back when I renew.

Ah. Yeah, piddly combined insurance discounts, or loyalty discounts. etc etc But when rates go up, they don't actually lower the *stated* rate.

I get 10% for having a few things insured with them. But that didn't stop the rate from increasing. The rate should decrease due to the lower risk and lower probability of a damage causing event. Insurance is all based on probability and risk. Rates are based on that.

Anyhow... It will be interesting what they state to him. I'm a little curious about the differences between here and there.

They may demand a backflow preventer (backwater valve) before he even gets insured. Which is very possible.


ArgMeMatey

join:2001-08-09
Milwaukee, WI
kudos:2
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·AT&T Midwest
·Time Warner Cable

said by Indeedy :

They may demand a backflow preventer (backwater valve) before he even gets insured. Which is very possible.

Semantic notes:

The trade term backflow preventer seems to be used for potable water applications, i.e. a double check backflow preventer.

These are significantly different in design from backwater valves used for sewer applications. I don't know if there's a trade dictionary or model code distinction, but it helps reduce the scope of the discussion to know the difference.

I realize that this being a free country and English and all that, people will call things whatever they want regardless. Have a great weekend everybody. (Or would that be weekstart? )
--
USNG:
16TDN2870
Find your USNG coordinates:
USNGWeb

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Indeedy

said by Indeedy :

Yes it will. Happened here. People took the city to court after so many times. Gov stepped in and gave the money when people went higher up. It's a design flaw and also not capable of actually supplying a growing city, and they likely knew it when it was installed decades ago. Many cities will go through this, or already have.

Must be different in Canada. When we had our backups, us and a few neighbors talked to lawyers. Most said you'd have to prove gross negligence on the city's part. Like knowing about bad sewer pipes and not doing a thing, or it being a common thing after every rain. Basically if it's after a 50 or 100 year event you're SOL.

And then they said the cost would be very high with no guarantee of recouping anything.

Many wanted nothing to do with it as it was a loosing proposition for something that doesn't happen regularly. We were there 12 years and had the 100 year event last year.


leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to ArgMeMatey

There definitely are backflow preventer for other applications (such as check valves used by some municipalities at the water meter or anti-syphon valves for yard irrigation) but that doesn't mean that the term is exclusively reserved for those.

It may be a regional thing (as naming conventions often are) but at least on this coast businesses that sell and install these devices call them sewer backflow preventer.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!



hdman
Flt Rider
Premium
join:2003-11-25
Appleton, WI
Reviews:
·exede by ViaSat
reply to fartness

Look into a "stand pipe".....illegal, yet effective. It can create excess pressure on your foundation walls, but will also not allow a floor sewer drain to back up into your basement. Had one many years ago in a big city, and all my neighbors would flood, but not me. I just kept my mouth shut.....

HDMan
--
The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!!



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

I don't understand what a stand pipe has to do with stopping basement floor drain from backing up.



leibold
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

You need to look up the many different meanings of the term stand pipe. I didn't know that particular one either but there is indeed a backflow prevention device called standpipe (basement outlets are extended upwards by attaching vertical pieces of pipe).

This is not automatic: the standpipe is attached when flooding is anticipated and removed to return the basement to normal use. It is effective and low cost.
--
Got some spare cpu cycles ? Join Team Helix or Team Starfire!



hdman
Flt Rider
Premium
join:2003-11-25
Appleton, WI
Reviews:
·exede by ViaSat
reply to Ken

You attach a vertical section of PVC to your floor drain that extends up from the floor. Simple physics says the water around your house would then need to get as high as the top of the pipe in order for water to come out of the pipe. This raises the water level around your home (and your neighbors) and can create added pressure on your foundation or basement walls.

These were common in the city I grew up in, but were as illegal as all hell because frankly, you could flood your neighbors house in short order depending on how close your homes were. Never had a storm drain backup....ever.....but the rest of the neighborhood did.
--
The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!!



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

Ok I see, the term stand pipe means something else to me. I don't see why that would be illegal, it's doing the same thing as a backflow preventer. It's just manual instead of automatic.



Indeedy

@videotron.ca
reply to ArgMeMatey

I am guilty of using both words (backflow preventer & backwater valve) interchangeably.

Guilty as changed.