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LastDon
join:2002-08-13

1 edit

LastDon

Member

Organic Food.. same as non organic?

I thought maybe yoyo would of been here defending or posting about this article..

»fullcomment.nationalpost ··· al-food/

I always thought foot without chemicals was safer than foods with chemicals ?
jaberi
join:2010-08-13

jaberi

Member

Re: Organic Food.. not as safe?

i was under the same impression as you....not sure i will look at that food the same way as before....are these places just capitalizing on the consumer being naive?
Warez_Zealot
join:2006-04-19
Vancouver

Warez_Zealot

Member

organic is a gimmick . sustainable locally grown is the best.

organic can come from huge industrial farms, so it's kinda a joke .

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4 to LastDon

Premium Member

to LastDon
Interesting.

I never have bought organic. Never will now either.

I do know of people that spend $400 more per week just buying this organic stuff because they think it's better. Ironic how the one guys wife got cancer, and the other organic buyers still have their health issues. (now being told to cut this and that out of their diet)

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to LastDon

Anon

to LastDon
Not as safe?

I think your misinterpreted something.

In regards to the link and the headline, it would appear the people at the National Post can't read to well. Maybe it's time they fold up and call it a day instead of putting out fabricated BS.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

1 recommendation

DKS

said by hm :

Not as safe?

I think your misinterpreted something.

In regards to the link and the headline, it would appear the people at the National Post can't read to well. Maybe it's time they fold up and call it a day instead of putting out fabricated BS.

What BS?

"there’s no reason to believe organics are safer or more nutritious than conventional foods"

In other words, it's food. It's no different from anything else. Any exclusivity is based on price alone.

ekster
Hi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC

ekster to LastDon

Premium Member

to LastDon
Organic in a grocery store is the same crap as regular. food

Paying extra to get it from a small local farm is really worth it though. The taste and texture alone are a thousand times better than the stuff found in the grocery stores, regardless if it's organic or not.
IamGimli (banned)
join:2004-02-28
Canada

IamGimli (banned) to LastDon

Member

to LastDon
It is a sure sign of the decline of our civilization when PR alone is able to convince people to pay more for lower quality food, and feel superior for it.

Xstar_Lumini
join:2008-12-14
CANADA

Xstar_Lumini to LastDon

Member

to LastDon
Lol at you guys been swindled. The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp the world' biggest genetically modified grain supplier that is striving to PATENT the world's food supply, they are being sued by brazilian farmers right now.

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot to LastDon

Premium Member

to LastDon
said by LastDon:

I thought maybe yoyo would of been here defending or posting about this article..

Well, a few things I have to say about that.

1) This is an opinion page blog, not a news article.

2) It's concerning the American "Organic" label which isn't the same as the Canadian "Organic" label. Ours is stricter.

3) The study has shown that USA Organic labelled food has less pesticides and antibiotics, significantly lower in some foods.Produce, for example, was 30% lower risk of containing detect-able pesticide levels.

4) "But when bacteria did lurk in chicken or pork, germs in the non-organic meats had a 33-per-cent-higher risk of being resistant to multiple antibiotics" - a public health concern because they are harder to treat if they cause food poisoning.

5) Organic farming has a positive effect on how our food is provided in general, more than just the simple "organic fad"; it does promote people to look for local alternatives which is better in my area for our economy. It could also have positive implications in feeding children.

6) Experts said much of what's sprayed on picked foods wouldn't hurt the people picking the foods. Decades later, we've found they've caused cancers and neurological diseases. Personally, I'd rather my food didn't contain even trace amounts of chemicals that could cause that.

We don't know the real effects of many of the chemicals found in our foods and what was okay last year, the FDA has banned this year.

I don't go out of my way to buy organic foods or pay more, rather I buy local foods; but it seems logical that less toxic chemicals is healthier so if it's only a few cents more for the non-toxic variety, I'll pay the few cents more, even if its a placebo effect.
booj
join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON

booj to Xstar_Lumini

Member

to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

Lol at you guys been swindled. The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp the world' biggest genetically modified grain supplier that is striving to PATENT the world's food supply, they are being sued by brazilian farmers right now.

You mean Monsanto? Pure evil indeed. They are the anathema to sustainable farming.

Processed organic food is the same as non organic, this study is not surprising.

paste plz
@videotron.ca

paste plz to Xstar_Lumini

Anon

to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp

Got a link to that handy?

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to Xstar_Lumini

to Xstar_Lumini
said by Xstar_Lumini:

Lol at you guys been swindled. The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp the world' biggest genetically modified grain supplier that is striving to PATENT the world's food supply, they are being sued by brazilian farmers right now.

Got proof? CTV and W5 don't accept money.

Question
@videotron.ca

Question to urbanriot

Anon

to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

2) It's concerning the American "Organic" label which isn't the same as the Canadian "Organic" label. Ours is stricter.

Some good points. More can be made...

Does anyone know the differences between the US, Canada and maybe Mexico when it comes to organic foods in North America? Anyone have a link maybe outlining the differences?

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to DKS

Anon

to DKS
said by DKS:

Got proof? CTV and W5 don't accept money.

They do from sponsors... And networks have pulled shows before because of sponsors or commercial air time and disagreements with certain shows like this.

So yes the network accepts money. Of course they do. And this influences what is shown or not shown, and also influences other things in connection to it.

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot to Question

Premium Member

to Question
said by Question :

Does anyone know the differences between the US, Canada and maybe Mexico when it comes to organic foods in North America? Anyone have a link maybe outlining the differences?

There's the word 'organic' and there's the Organic certifications and it's important to distinguish the two.

In USA, for example, "USDA Organic" is the same as "Canada Organic", which requires at least 95% of organic ingredients.

However the word "organic" is used on some American foods which have a smaller percentage of true organic components and there's other certifying boards (many of which are on probation) with more stringent standards.

There's more official Canadian information here, on what's required by whatever Government of Canada rules apply - »canadagazette.gc.ca/arch ··· eng.html (from 2006, not sure if its been updated since).

Some main points (from CBC.ca article):
quote:
If a producer wants to use the Canada Organic logo on their product or if a producer wants to sell a product labelled organic somewhere other than the province in which it was produced, that producer is subject to the following rules under the Organic Products Regulations:

- Only products with at least 95% organic content may be labelled as "organic" or bear the "organic" logo. These products must be certified and the name of the certification body must appear on the label.

- Multi-ingredient products with 70-95 per cent organic content may have the declaration: "contains xx% organic ingredients." These products may not use the organic logo and/or the claim to be "organic." These products must be certified and the name of the certification body must appear on the label.

- Multi-ingredient products with less than 70 per cent "organic" content may only contain organic claims in the product's ingredient list. These products do not require certification and may not use the "organic" logo. However, the organic ingredients contained within these products must be certified.

Use of the Canada Organic label is voluntary, so not all products that have been certified organic have the label, but all products traded interprovincially must have the name of the certifying body on their packaging. If products are not packaged, such as at a farmers market or farm store, the certificate from the certifying body should be displayed at the point of sale.
Article I copied this from is here, from December 2011 - »www.cbc.ca/news/canada/s ··· faq.html

So it seems there are some governmental rules at play here, for both countries, in certifying foods and using certain logos. It seems the two more legitimate stamps are from "Canada Organic" or "USDA Organic".
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

LastDon

Member

Re: Organic Food.. same as non organic?

Yes it is an opinion piece but there was recent studies done which is why this opinion piece was done.

Anyway i still go to local farmers pick up beans etc etc and even grow them in my backyard.

still taste great.. but truly organic? i guess everyone has their own definition of it. with background fallouts etc it is hard to make 100% organic unless it is contained in a bubble or something
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to LastDon

Premium Member

to LastDon
said by LastDon:

I always thought foot without chemicals was safer than foods with chemicals ?

I've given up on pure sugar-filled maple syrup.
I'm now covering my pancakes with a healthy amount of delicious Vitamin C (and dioxin)-packed Agent Orange.

My teeth are healthier and I'm losing weight fast.
Never mind the Kaposi's sarcoma's.
MaynardKrebs

MaynardKrebs to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS

Re: Organic Food.. not as safe?

said by DKS:

said by Xstar_Lumini:

Lol at you guys been swindled. The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp the world' biggest genetically modified grain supplier that is striving to PATENT the world's food supply, they are being sued by brazilian farmers right now.

Got proof? CTV and W5 don't accept money.

CTV / W5 are owned by Bell.
Care to rephrase your question?

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS
Technically you are correct, however they could have bought ad time on the network and fluff disguised as a news piece is created.

Seen this many times

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to MaynardKrebs

to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

said by DKS:

said by Xstar_Lumini:

Lol at you guys been swindled. The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp the world' biggest genetically modified grain supplier that is striving to PATENT the world's food supply, they are being sued by brazilian farmers right now.

Got proof? CTV and W5 don't accept money.

CTV / W5 are owned by Bell.
Care to rephrase your question?

So? That means what? Again, prove your assertion.
DKS

DKS to elwoodblues

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Technically you are correct, however they could have bought ad time on the network and fluff disguised as a news piece is created.

Seen this many times

Sales and editorial are two separate lines with different executives. The two do not cross.
DKS

DKS to hm

to hm
said by hm :

said by DKS:

Got proof? CTV and W5 don't accept money.

They do from sponsors... And networks have pulled shows before because of sponsors or commercial air time and disagreements with certain shows like this.

So yes the network accepts money. Of course they do. And this influences what is shown or not shown, and also influences other things in connection to it.

You really don't know how the media works.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

So? That means what? Again, prove your assertion.

I've asserted nothing other than the FACT that CTV / w5 (a CTV product) is owned by Bell.

What I will now assert is that Bell appears to be busy dumbing down the content carried on their stations, promoting meaningless drivel cross multiple outlets, and generally not seeming to care much about facts in their newscasts -- and caring more about sensationalism.

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by DKS:

So? That means what? Again, prove your assertion.

I've asserted nothing other than the FACT that CTV / w5 (a CTV product) is owned by Bell.

What I will now assert is that Bell appears to be busy dumbing down the content carried on their stations, promoting meaningless drivel cross multiple outlets, and generally not seeming to care much about facts in their newscasts -- and caring more about sensationalism.

And that has what connection to this story?
Expand your moderator at work

yoyomhz
join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA

yoyomhz to DKS

Member

to DKS

Re: Organic Food.. not as safe?

#1 - Stanford's study is a pile of garbage.
#2 - Organic food is better in many ways. But it wouldn't be possible to prove it.



When I was growing up, in the 1970s, some orchardists never used respirators, like shown above. They never had that protective raincoat that is mandatory now. They never even used gloves. The information given to farmers back in those days by the 'experts' was from the dark ages. For example, and I'm not making this up - BC apple growers were encouraged to spray a hormone on red delicious apples, to make that variety more 'elongated' because the 'typey' red delicious sold for the most money back then. BC apple growers also used the hormone - ALAR - because in those days it was like the wild west - anything goes. And pesticides were a good way to make more profit.



In 1979 my friend's younger brother died from a brain tumour. There were studies that showed farmers in Kansas had higher rates of cancer of the lymphatic system caused by herbicides, and there were cancer clusters in small towns in California's San Joaquin Valley (caused by pesticides), and many other studies showed higher incidences of cancer and leukemia among farmers and farm workers.

In 1979 Robert Vanden bosch wrote 'The Pesticide Conspiracy' which exposed the greedy chemical industry, and all the other greedy people in agriculture, that were promoting the use of pesticides, and he showed how food could be grown in a more sane manner,

In the last twenty years farmers everywhere have cut down on the amount of pesticides they use. But we're still eating pesticide residues. Farmers aren't stupid - they don't like losing money, and they will spray when they have to. We eat those pesticides.

Some foods like onions have less or almost no pesticides. Other foods like peaches and apples and grapes have a lot more pesticides. Some places like eastern Canada and eastern USA hve more rain, so they use more fungicides than BC, which has the perfect climate for growing fruit and is probably the best place in the world for reducing pesticide use. 100% of Florida strawberries are drenched in fungicides to allow them to be shipped across the country.

Some pesticides are highly toxic in the short term, but quickly break down and are less toxic in the long term. Other pesticides are only mildly toxic in the short term, but cause cancer in the long term. No one ever thought about doing a study on how all those pesticides we're consuming react 'together' and what problems they cause in the long term. One thing we do know - almost everyone in the country, when they get old, suffers from health problems.

So if you think it's cool that women working at Costa Rica's banana plantations are dieing from cancer more than the average person, and you like saving 50 cents per lb. - then go buy the sprayed bananas. If you think it's cool that low paid farm workers are exposed to more pesticides every day they work in the fields, so you can save a few dollars, then buy the sprayed stuff. My friend's younger brother died from a brain tumour in 1979 - his father kept pesticide containers in the basement of their house. In those days, no one knew any better.

If it means that much to you, save money and buy sprayed food. But if all the costs of conventionally grown food, including subsidies and health costs to farmers and farm workers, and costs to the environment - if all the indirect costs of conventionally grown produce were added up - ORGANIC WOULD BE CHEAPER.

Yup. That's the weird part. if we did things right, organic would be cheaper.

We're subsidizing the pesticide companies, and eating the carcinogens.



»www.whatsonmyfood.org/fo ··· ?food=AP
LastDon
join:2002-08-13

LastDon

Member

But can't the same be given as an example with the amount of people that eat food with this crap on it and are perfectly fine and live a long long life?

There is always two sides to the story I believe ..

I prefer clean food with less chemicals but in the current state that we live in, everything has something with chemicals.

hm
@videotron.ca

hm to yoyomhz

Anon

to yoyomhz
Is there a list of the common pesticides, herbicides and other, used in both the US and Canada available some place?

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS to yoyomhz

to yoyomhz
said by yoyomhz:

#1 - Stanford's study is a pile of garbage.
#2 - Organic food is better in many ways. But it wouldn't be possible to prove it.

Ah. A conclusive statement. No proof and no evidence.