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urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Ian

Re: Organic Food.. not as safe?

said by Ian:

Again,

said by Ian:

Again, care to cite an example of a product on store shelves right now with toxic levels of pesticides or herbicides?

Why do you write "again"? You haven't previously asked me for anything that I didn't respond to and furthermore, I didn't refer to what you're asking for examples of.

Perhaps you're mixed up and replying to the wrong person or read something other than what I wrote.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

said by urbanriot:

said by Ian:

Again,

said by Ian:

Again, care to cite an example of a product on store shelves right now with toxic levels of pesticides or herbicides?

Why do you write "again"? You haven't previously asked me for anything that I didn't respond to and furthermore, I didn't refer to what you're asking for examples of.

Perhaps you're mixed up and replying to the wrong person or read something other than what I wrote.

You seemed to be in agreement with "chemist" and I asked him or her for an example in a previous post. But, can you list examples of common purchases made in the supermarket that have toxic levels?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON

Do you wash your fruit Ian?



urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Ian

said by Ian:

You seemed to be in agreement with "chemist" and I asked him or her for an example in a previous post. But, can you list examples of common purchases made in the supermarket that have toxic levels?

I was in agreement with "chemist"'s factual response, that "there are indeed things worse, and not at all equal" concerning a variance of toxicity in different foods. I added context to that response with examples of foods that retain more than other foods.

You're attempting to push forward on debating a point that I did not make.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to booj

said by booj:

Do you wash your fruit Ian?

Yes. And I would wash "organic" produce as well.

booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON

said by Ian:

said by booj:

Do you wash your fruit Ian?

Yes. And I would wash "organic" produce as well.

Then why do you ask people to cite for you toxicity levels in supermarket fruits when you know yourself they are present?


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

said by booj:

said by Ian:

said by booj:

Do you wash your fruit Ian?

Yes. And I would wash "organic" produce as well.

Then why do you ask people to cite for you toxicity levels in supermarket fruits when you know yourself they are present?

Nice illogical leap there. Did you notice my mentioning that I'd wash organic produce as well?

Wouldn't you? Ever hear of bacteria?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON

I have to leap over the holes in your logic, they are huge.

So, to be clear, you wash your fruit solely because you fear bacteria, not chemicals?



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

said by booj:

I have to leap over the holes in your logic, they are huge.

So, to be clear, you wash your fruit solely because you fear bacteria, not chemicals?

Solely? Do I consider it possible that the manufacturer or farmer didn't properly rinse off the pesticides/fertilizers? Sure. And since I don't maintain a GC/Mass-Spec system in my kitchen, and also since I need to wash them anyway to remove bacteria, if it happens to knock off any extra chemicals, so what?

Quick question though, when was the last time there was a produce recall in Canada due to excessive pesticides? None that I can remember. Listeria? E-Coli? All the damned time.

So why not answer my question? Do you (or would you) wash organic produce?

If someone wants to worry about chemical exposure, they can quit worrying about their lettuce and look to the thousands of cars and trucks driving by if that's their thing.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3

Well, undoubtedly people would die from eating cars and trucks. Not recommended.



Chemist

@videotron.ca
reply to Ian

said by Ian:

said by urbanriot:

said by Chemist :

That depends on the vegetable and/or fruit being sold.

You're absolutely right, as some produce absorbs and retains toxic chemicals more than others, like green beans, apples (there you go yoyo), bell peppers, lettuce, etc., while mangoes, cabbage, and a few others, not so much.

Again, care to cite an example of a product on store shelves right now with toxic levels of pesticides or herbicides?

It may not (or may!) have toxic levels right off the shelves, but... Ian, are all herbicides and pesticides water soluble?

Do none of these herbicides and pesticides metabolize to something more harmful than the pesticide or herbicide itself?

None (either the original species or it's metabolite) are fat soluble and stay in your body to bio-accumulate?

You sure about this? Have you looked into the common North American ones?

How about the food stuffs from Costa Rica?

You made a blanket statement.


yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
reply to LastDon

Re: Organic Food.. same as non organic?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WvoB2gRJbE


watch the movie.


yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
reply to LastDon




yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
reply to LastDon

EPA is taking action to end the use of the pesticide endosulfan because it can pose unacceptable health risks to farmworkers and wildlife and can persist in the environment.

Nice going - EPA. How many years has that pesticide been used, and now, after all those years, you are thinking about 'phasing it out?'

One more reason organic is proven better. Because sometimes, a pesticide is used for decades, and then they phase it out because they learn it's just no good. The farmer and farmworker is the guinea pig.

»www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregistrat···ent.html



yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
reply to LastDon

Most of our apple juice comes from china for some strange hard to believe reason.

I wonder if our orange juice comes from Thailand?
Watch the movie - learn one more reason why organic is better.

»www.cultureunplugged.com/documen···ge-Alert



Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to Chemist

Re: Organic Food.. not as safe?

said by Chemist :

You made a blanket statement.

No, I'm not the one making blanket statements.

There are people here making entirely unscientific leaps because the idea that organic produce is no better than regular is troubling to them. Some are organic farmers themselves. Some may have needlessly wasted money on organic produce. And by the way, simply "believing" that organic foods may have health benefits could have a beneficial placebo effect. So if that works for you, knock yourself out.

Are pesticides a good idea to eat a lot of? No. But we have entire government departments here and in the US working to try and make sure our food is safe, from the levels of pesticides found to types and quantity of bacteria present. As a Chemist, I know that our ability to detect compounds, even trace amounts, has grown by leaps and bounds. So just because you can find a pesticide in a given piece of fruit doesn't mean that it contains toxic levels of it. Even if accumulated over time. Sorry, but the scientific bar needs to be set a little higher for this kind of discussion. Which is what this Stanford study (and others like it) was trying to do.

If there's a nutrition problem in Canada to be concerned with it's with kids eating nothing but junk. For many families it isn't a question of which type of fresh fruits and vegetables they buy. They don't buy them. They throw a plastic fruit roll-up loaded with sugar and a can of coke into their kids lunch bag and call it food.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Chemist

@videotron.ca

Also, just wish to touch base on this with you Ian.

If one goes and actually reads this study, the researchers clearly state the data they aggregated from some of the various research was biased. In other words..... yup... not really honest data giving honest results and/or honest conclusions.

This is what this study is based on...

This is far from conclusive.



Chemist

@videotron.ca
reply to Ian

said by Ian:

Are pesticides a good idea to eat a lot of? No. But we have entire government departments here and in the US working to try and make sure our food is safe, from the levels of pesticides found to types and quantity of bacteria present.

For many families it isn't a question of which type of fresh fruits and vegetables they buy. They don't buy them. They throw a plastic fruit roll-up loaded with sugar and a can of coke into their kids lunch bag and call it food.

Examples are 3 types of corn by Monsanto that had zero testing or evaluation and allowed on the market. All that was required by both health Canada and agriculture Canada was documents from Dow and Monsanto stating they meet guidelines and were safe. End of story. ZERO testing of anything in Canada.

It was France who actually did studies on them and found them containing toxic amounts of something (I forget what now) after 90-days of growth.

So does Canada and the US test everything? No. Not at all. They let the chem companies do it for them and write reports for them.

I believe I posted this in this forum a few years ago, you should be able to find it with a word search of Monsanto or something.

Fact of the matter is, Canada is terrible and not what you are making it out to be in yet another blanket statement. Or maybe you just aren't aware. I wasn't either till a few years ago.

In regards to the second paragraph. heh. Bingo! What's even worse, if I don't toss plastic food in the kids lunch they yell at me that they have no food to eat! Can't f'n win...

But yeah, Canadian food/crop reg's aren't anything to be desired... Maybe we are a leader is doing nothing. That's about it.

booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON
reply to Ian

said by Ian:

said by booj:

I have to leap over the holes in your logic, they are huge.

So, to be clear, you wash your fruit solely because you fear bacteria, not chemicals?

Quick question though, when was the last time there was a produce recall in Canada due to excessive pesticides? None that I can remember. Listeria? E-Coli? All the damned time.

So why not answer my question? Do you (or would you) wash organic produce?

If someone wants to worry about chemical exposure, they can quit worrying about their lettuce and look to the thousands of cars and trucks driving by if that's their thing.

Listeria and and E-Coli do not taint fruit. They're found on tender vegetables close to black Earth like bean sprouts, scallions and mushrooms. Fruits, aside from rotten ones, are pretty much harmful bacteria free. To answer your question, I wash organic produce when it looks dirty. When you trust the source though, it's good to go.

The instances of chemical traces on fruit are well documented. You will encounter high levels of them if you eat unwashed fruit regularly. Rates in the latest CFIA sampling are about 0.4% of shelf produce having higher than safe amounts of pesticides/preservatives.

For someone so familiar with the state of the art in chemical detection, could you reassure us that such analysis is done on every source that provides produce? Are you not concerned that the food inspection funding, which provides you with the tenuous sense of security you have about pesticide prevalence, is being cut heavily?

From OP's NP article:

quote:
But the Stanford study should be a reminder that there is no compelling reason to make “going organic” a wider policy objective.
The main argument for "going organic" is about a healthy planet and sustainability. Organic food being healthier than non-organic was only a side effect, but it never really had a strong claim. To win on health and (more importantly) taste, freshness (locally grown) matters more.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

said by elwoodblues:

Technically you are correct, however they could have bought ad time on the network and fluff disguised as a news piece is created.

Seen this many times

Sales and editorial are two separate lines with different executives. The two do not cross.

That might be in community TV, not in commercial TV, I've spent enough time in it to know exactly how the system works.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


hm

@videotron.ca
reply to booj

said by Ian:

Quick question though, when was the last time there was a produce recall in Canada due to excessive pesticides? None that I can remember.

There was also the Ottawa incident a few years back that was in all the news about strawberries having way too much pesticides. people were ending up in area hospitals with blistering on the lips and tongues and other allergic reactions.

This was about 6 years ago (+/-).

It happens...

Did you not hear of this Ottawa incident? Was on all the news at the time. Alerts were constantly being put out all summer so people would extra wash the berries. Since it wasn't too long ago, is should be findable on google... A quick search didn't show anything. Maybe a google-ninja can find it.

But that is extreme cases. But does that make lower concentrations just peachy and ok?

Lower concentrations of fat soluble DDT (and it's metabolites) won't harm you either in the short term. Should we put it on your eggs?


CanadianRip

join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

You really don't know how the media works.

I do - and I can tell you that you're very naive as to how it works.

Want one example - dig up one major scathing article about MDG Computers exposing their unethical business practices in a major news publication where they advertised major full page spreads frequently.

Right down to influencing even local papers that distribute through Metroland/other conglomerates.

A company with a history of screwing over people for over a decade, and not one person manages to blow the whistle? I wonder why that is...


Thats right

@videotron.ca
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

That might be in community TV, not in commercial TV, I've spent enough time in it to know exactly how the system works.

That's right. Happened enough times in the states. but guess he knows all.

Also happened to Myth Busters and their RFID show 3-4 years ago that never aired. Discovery backed down and cancelled the airing of that show because the advertisers got all fired up about it

Money and advertisers pull the strings.

Quite a few examples of this that occurred.


Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

said by Xstar_Lumini:

Lol at you guys been swindled. The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp the world' biggest genetically modified grain supplier that is striving to PATENT the world's food supply, they are being sued by brazilian farmers right now.

Got proof? CTV and W5 don't accept money.

I heard this about 2 days ago on 640 AM the John Oakley show, he's not going to lie or fabricate this, it's well-known that Mosanto sponsored the investigation and W5 accepted the "help". That's blatant conflict-of-interest if you ask me.


so um

@videotron.ca

I haven't heard anything about this W5 show and Mosanto. Links? Is the show online? News coverage of the scandal links?



Xstar_Lumini

join:2008-12-14
Canada
kudos:2

I couldn't find anything on Google about the payment to W5 by Mosanto but I found this:

»www.ctvnews.ca/scc-ruling-means-···1.267426

(CTV network virtually cheering a Mosanto court victory over impoverished small farmers, what a coincidence that CTV is the only network in Toronto reporting this victory)



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

said by DKS:

said by elwoodblues:

Technically you are correct, however they could have bought ad time on the network and fluff disguised as a news piece is created.

Seen this many times

Sales and editorial are two separate lines with different executives. The two do not cross.

That might be in community TV, not in commercial TV, I've spent enough time in it to know exactly how the system works.

And given that there is something called journalist ethics, the suggestion that there is a crossover (Sun Media excepted) is exaggerated.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Xstar_Lumini

said by Xstar_Lumini:

said by DKS:

said by Xstar_Lumini:

Lol at you guys been swindled. The corporation that PAID the TV series W5 to investigate and put down the organic small farmers was Dosanto corp the world' biggest genetically modified grain supplier that is striving to PATENT the world's food supply, they are being sued by brazilian farmers right now.

Got proof? CTV and W5 don't accept money.

I heard this about 2 days ago on 640 AM the John Oakley show, he's not going to lie or fabricate this, it's well-known that Mosanto sponsored the investigation and W5 accepted the "help". That's blatant conflict-of-interest if you ask me.

Just because you heard John Oakley says it doesn't mean it is so.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Xstar_Lumini

said by Xstar_Lumini:

I couldn't find anything on Google about the payment to W5 by Mosanto but I found this:

»www.ctvnews.ca/scc-ruling-means-···1.267426

(CTV network virtually cheering a Mosanto court victory over impoverished small farmers, what a coincidence that CTV is the only network in Toronto reporting this victory)

If you google "monsanto organic" there is considerable media interest in the subject.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
reply to LastDon

Re: Organic Food.. same as non organic?

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZtiyAPU···e=g-vrec


one more reason organic is better - it's not genetically modified