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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile

1 recommendation

reply to TSI Marc

Re: Teksavvy Installation Nightmare - Letter to CEO

Really the issues of installs and support come down to the fact that we are dealing with a faulty relationship between the incumbents and TPIAs, and the TPIA's being the people we talk with bear the brunt of the heat.

All this because the CRTC didn't choose to implement tougher standards for the response procedures and times for the incumbent - TPIA relationship.

Let's face it, the incumbents really would rather have all the TPIA customers themselves, so why would they want to service TPIAs? So, they prioritize TPIA clients below their own. Now granted the relationship between for example Bell and TekSavvy is generally better than Rogers - Teksavvy, because Bell have long had similar business relationships selling at a wholesale and commercial level. This was a new and very reluctant business for Cable. They were strong armed into it by the CRTC and thought they could get away with doing all interaction through the existing customer email support team with a similar 48 hour response window (who incidentally were pretty bad for their own customers). There was never a proper escalation process for cable TPIA problems ... and so the TPIA customer gets no priority when things go wrong from the incumbent.

This all puts a crazy strain on TPIA support. It's easy to say "TekSavvy support isn't doing anything to push this along", but the reality is that in many cases, particularly cable, there IS nothing they can do to push things along except occasionally rely on the goodwill of some particular employee, since there is no real business process to push things along!

The overall result is that if you choose to have a TPIA, then when things go wrong, they can readily go VERY VERY wrong and the TPIA's hands are tied.

The reality is that if the incumbents treated TPIAs as important commercial customers and gave them the priority they deserved, TPIA support staff wouldn't be spending so long answering irate customers and trying to coax incumbents to get off their duffs and actually resolve problems in a timely and efficient manner. Then TPIA support staff would be far better able to help and less likely to panic and leave. Support is a tough job and a lot of people just can't do it without burning out quickly.

Yes, I'm blaming the incumbents again, but I'm also blaming the CRTC for allowing the incumbents to put TPIA providers in this position.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·SONIC.NET
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Seriously dude, go though the "Teksavvy sucks" threads, and see how many times it goes of to the direct forum and we never hear of it again.

I've been following TSI for years, since I live in MI and was considering moving a bit farther north; at least 7 years now. I've seen it all already.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to elwoodblues
The idea of the direct forums is that if the customer has posted in the main forum and been referred to the direct, that the customer come back to the main forum and post the results of his interaction if appropriate. The reality is that very very very few people actually do that. It's not up to the ISP to bring the story back, and could be considered a privacy issue if they did.

The ISPs don't do a "we'll fix your problem in the direct forum as long as you don't tell others". I think that would raise some eyebrows!

It's people's general "phew it's solved ... let's get on" that has happened here and they just don't come back to report the results ... even if they say they will. It's not just these forums. I mod a medical forum, and we regularly refer people to their doctor and ask them to come back and tell us how they made out (you get concerned when you hear of people having heart problems etc. It's nice to find out they're still alive!) BUT nope, maybe 1 in 100 return.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to BronsCon
said by BronsCon:

said by elwoodblues:

Seriously dude, go though the "Teksavvy sucks" threads, and see how many times it goes of to the direct forum and we never hear of it again.

I've been following TSI for years, since I live in MI and was considering moving a bit farther north; at least 7 years now. I've seen it all already.

Following TSI (reading ups and downs) and using the service (Calling in for support, billing, sales and physically using the services) are two different things. I cannot physically comment on Dell for example. Horror stories i've heard are everywhere. Until i use their service, computers, support i have no right to comment on how successful or unsuccessful they are.

What you read here in the forums is a sample, nothing more.

Basically what i'm saying is you shouldn't have an opinion of either. Saying Teksavvy fights the good fight is like saying Telus does a Cancer run each summer that my family attends and donates to. Both fight good causes.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·SONIC.NET
Did I read that right? Are you really telling me I'm not entitled to my opinion? And was that really in response to a statement of fact (rather than opinion)? Wow. Just... Wow. And people take you seriously?

Edit: To be clear, it was suggested that I read the forums. When I point out that not only have I read them, I've been reading them for the better part of a decade, you chime in and try to invalidate that by saying I'm not entitled to an opinion because I'm not a customer. Were you not the one to bring opinion into this to begin with, I might be inclined to agree with you.


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
said by BronsCon:

Did I read that right? Are you really telling me I'm not entitled to my opinion? And was that really in response to a statement of fact (rather than opinion)? Wow. Just... Wow. And people take you seriously?

Here you go on your high horse again. Entitled to an opinion sure, but to provide a statement without first using Teksavvy.

You're very dramatic, take it down a few notches...


Shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to Tx
said by Tx:

If this Mac guy did in deed do as the OP said, doesn't matter who Teksavvy is, that's unacceptable. Unfortunately i sure hope no one expects answers if it rang true due to privacy issues in the work place, Marc's hands are tied if you wanted to know what happened with Mac if true.

Agreed. What does it even matter to anyone, except the OP, if the guy yelled?

And if he did yell for no reason, you have to wonder what would break a person to the point of screaming.

Maybe the guy could use a couple of days off for an extra long weekend. Chit happens. No one is immune from pressures of life and the pressures of work.


QuantumPimp

join:2012-02-19
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to sbrook
said by sbrook:

Really the issues of installs and support come down to the fact that we are dealing with a faulty relationship between the incumbents and TPIAs, and the TPIA's being the people we talk with bear the brunt of the heat.

Yes, that is certainly a big part of the environment. I expect TPIAs and consumer groups to organize and provide leadership to effect change. Not really what this thread is about AFAIK. I am far more concerned about CSR behavior .... something for which TekSavvy has 100% control.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to BronsCon
One of the fanbois I mentioned.


zacron
Premium
join:2008-11-26
canada
reply to QuantumPimp
We need the R0CKY model back. Simple.


Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
said by zacron:

We need the R0CKY model back. Simple.

I don't think it will do any good. As sbrook said, TekSavvy's hands are tied because Rogers TPIA clients are prioritized below their own. So right now, they can't really push things other than reimburse their clients. If they had their own techs and equipment, that would be a different story.


zacron
Premium
join:2008-11-26
canada
That isn't what I was getting at.

What I'm attempting to communicate is that when R0CKY was the CEO, he seemed to present problems and solutions in a more "customer friendly" manner... He was still a bit of a bush dancer however, he did have the Je ne sais quoi jeoune sais quos (Could a french gent/lady spell that properly for me?).

Rocky was a people person, I don't really get the feeling based on past employees and current employees that Marc is such a people person.

Just stating that a more people person would be good for client communications and what not.
--
"Lord giveth but he also taketh away"
»www.speedtest.net/result/2102768148.png


ekster
Hi there
Premium
join:2010-07-16
Lachine, QC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·FreePhoneLine
said by zacron:

he did have the jeoune sais quos (Could a french gent/lady spell that properly for me?).

Je ne sais quoi.


zacron
Premium
join:2008-11-26
canada
said by ekster:

said by zacron:

he did have the jeoune sais quos (Could a french gent/lady spell that properly for me?).

Je ne sais quoi.

Merci!
--
"Lord giveth but he also taketh away"
»www.speedtest.net/result/2102768148.png


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·SONIC.NET
reply to Tx
said by Tx:

said by BronsCon:

Did I read that right? Are you really telling me I'm not entitled to my opinion? And was that really in response to a statement of fact (rather than opinion)? Wow. Just... Wow. And people take you seriously?

Here you go on your high horse again. Entitled to an opinion sure, but to provide a statement without first using Teksavvy.

You're very dramatic, take it down a few notches...

And once again, I am not the one who brought opinion into this. Nothing I stated was opinion, nor am I being dramatic. I was stating fact.


one liners

@videotron.ca
reply to zacron
said by zacron:

What I'm attempting to communicate is that when R0CKY was the CEO, he seemed to present problems and solutions in a more "customer friendly" manner...

One word:
perception.

End Result:
Same


zacron
Premium
join:2008-11-26
canada
reply to BronsCon
said by BronsCon:

said by Tx:

said by BronsCon:

Did I read that right? Are you really telling me I'm not entitled to my opinion? And was that really in response to a statement of fact (rather than opinion)? Wow. Just... Wow. And people take you seriously?

Here you go on your high horse again. Entitled to an opinion sure, but to provide a statement without first using Teksavvy.

You're very dramatic, take it down a few notches...

And once again, I am not the one who brought opinion into this. Nothing I stated was opinion, nor am I being dramatic. I was stating fact.

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder :P
--
"Lord giveth but he also taketh away"
»www.speedtest.net/result/2102768148.png


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
·SONIC.NET
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, indeed, but I'm not sure what your point is. I made a statement of fact and was called out for not having read these forums. Then, I pointed out that I've been doing so for over half a decade, which is a statement of fact. At no point in this thread did I provide any opinion, one way or the other, about TekSavvy. Facts are facts, they can not be argued; what a fact means in a certain situation can be argued, but the fact itself still stands.

If someone wants to point out something specific in this thread that I have posted that is not factual, they're welcome to. If you'd all rather keep jumping on me for trying to inject fact into the conversation, I'll take a moment to locate the "hey mods" button and consider using it. You are adding nothing to the conversation by attacking me and by replying to those attacks I only serve to further that, so it stops here.


travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON
reply to Simpletwist
My favourite part of TekSavvy fanboiism was when someone compared Rocky to Laura Secord years ago.

Seems to me that the bottom line is this - if you NEED Internet on a certain date, you're taking a risk by going with TekSavvy, as they can get screwed around mercilessly by Bell and Rogers. If you can live with getting Internet sometime on or after the promised date and your world won't implode if it doesn't happen on time, then go with TekSavvy. Or, if you need Internet, you better damn sure have a backup plan in place to cover you while your install process crashes and everyone sorts through the corpses.

Having dealt directly with Bell wholesale on the number porting front, it's a helpless feeling when they are completely indifferent to the screwup they made and you have to call your customer and tell them they won't have phone service that day. No amount of yelling, screaming or pleading can solve the problem.

TekSavvy generally seems to do a decent job of being accountable to the customer. But at the end of the day, this can only go on for so long before the business model has to change. I don't know what the solution is - perhaps filing a complaint with the CRTC every time Bell/Rogers dicks them around? Bury the bureaucrats with paper until you annoy them into action?

graniterock
Premium
join:2003-03-14
London, ON
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
said by travisc:

Seems to me that the bottom line is this - if you NEED Internet on a certain date, you're taking a risk by going with TekSavvy, as they can get screwed around mercilessly by Bell and Rogers.

I agree. I would go further and say it's a risk with any provider. Part of the reason I'm with TSI is that I never forgave Bell for a month long delay in my install with every other day calling getting no where.

I would however say the risks are different. The big difference is with the incumbent if you can get the attention of the right people things happen almost over night. With TSI they seem unable to leverage such contacts as it seems the contacts they do have are unsympathetic.


Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to travisc
The only solution is for the government to implement a solution similar to Australia's National Broadbank Network »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B···ralia%29 which consists of a FTTH network, 51% owned by the government and the remainder is owned by private firms.

Because Bell and Rogers are two capitalistic companies with the end game of making profits, therefore, they will never offer good services to 3rd party ISPs that are competing in their market.

Unless TekSavvy has a contact with loads of cash letting them build their own network, they will unfortunately continue suffering the BS of Rogers and Bell.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
said by Quake110:

The only solution is for the government to implement a solution similar to Australia's National Broadbank Network »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B···ralia%29 which consists of a FTTH network, 51% owned by the government and the remainder is owned by private firms.

Wake me up when I stop laughing, this is the same government that will probably rubber stamp the Bell takeover of Astral, making them the biggest media company in the country?

The same government that issued "Let the Free markets decide".
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·WIND Mobile
reply to Simpletwist
The Australian answer might provide the need for speed, but you can bet your bottom dollar it will get all bogged down in bureaucracy too.

But it doesn't solve the problem of customer service.

The requirement here is a better SLA between the incumbent and the TPIA and that will have to be either mandated, or the incumbents will need beating around the head with a healthy 2 by 4 that the TPIA business is still good for them and that they should treat the TPIAs better.

With Bell 10 years ago, I'd have said this was possible with them, but not with Rogers. Today, both companies' indifference to prompt customer service is nothing short of pathetic. I remember Rogers techs coming out at 9 pm after being called at 6. I remember Bell working until 11pm on a snowy winter's night to restore phone service reported that afternoon. Those days are gone for their own customers ... generally it's 24-48 hours for their own customers to get service. And 48 plus for TPIA customers.

That's the part that has to change too!

And I'll agree with the comment anti the "no right to an opinion" issue. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. How much that opinion is worth is dependent on many things. I remember living in the US, paying my taxes just like an American, then being told that I had no right to an opinion about anything "American".

It's called "Free Thought" and "Free Speech" ... not "Free Thought for only Americans" or "Free Speech for only TekSavvy customers".


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
TPIA should have never been mandated without a sla. I run (in comparison ) a minuscule network, and have a spare for my 100/100 Internet connection.

How teksavvy operates in such a BS environments beyond me.


Minds Eye

@teksavvy.com
reply to travisc
There is NO solution. It is what it is. This is the business setup that is in place if you are a company that wants to sell internet service in this neck of the woods. As a TPIA provider, you deal with a Rogers or Bell and work with the system that is in place. As a customer of these TPIA providers (and paying less for a better deal), you sometimes forfeit the advantage of i) Smooth Installs, Smooth Transfers, Clearer Customer Service, Etc., Etc.

Not to say that Bell or Rogers own customer service is always that stellar, however the point here is that dealing with TPIA providers sometimes comes with risks.

Again, it is what it is so deal with it!

Nuff Said


Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to sbrook
Sbrook, I don't think there can be a better SLA because of a simple reason: greed. By providing a lower quality service for the TPIA businesses, Rogers is making sure the headache alone will make the customers switch to Rogers.

And don't get my started about the CRTC. If it wasn't for the government's intervention, Bell would've got what they wanted. So the solution is to consider the internet as an essential service to the economy so that we would have a better infrastructure. There was a study that concluded the internet contributes greatly to the economy »www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11635318.

So unless the government gets involved (with the tories at the helm... NOT A CHANCE), the 3rd parties ISPs, in my opinion, will still have a problem with customer support.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28

1 recommendation

reply to Simpletwist
ok. I've gone through it all.

So, here's what I've done.

I've gone back to when the OP originally signed up with us at the end of the year last year to see the entire relationship up to now.

The original signup had major issues also, and I'm writing this only because I think it's affecting the present situation.

Happy customer:
The OP cancelled from incumbent and called to signup with us, all is good. We book him for install date 4 days later.

OPs first install date is missed/not so happy customer:
but at the time the incumbent had recently changed policy and demanded 10 days to activate. Order was summarily cancelled by incumbent and we are told to resubmit new order after time period.

New install date missed - very upset customer/wants to talk to manager - manager doesn't handle it the best:
OP calls, tech no show. incumbent reason - tech had no access to wire room in building, left w/o talking to customer. OP naturally upset speaks to CSR asks for SRA then ask for MOD(manager on duty) - MOD should have been sympathetic but was not - both MOD and OP feeling powerless. lots of emotions = bad situation. all we can do is open new ticket with incumbent. OP not happy with that but there's simply no other way. Agrees to escalate.

Finally installed two days later and online. OP = sour taste

Faithful OP:
Now, fast forward to early/mid august. OP wants to move to location that already has incumbent service. Received cancel date 30 days out from incumbent. Called us with date to coordinate new install. Some confusion since he has to cancel his service that's already with TSI, new location has to cancel also with incumbent and new service started at new location. Either way it's sorted, OP is cordial, nice conversation all good. OP will get email with new date soon. couple days later gets email with install date in a month. Order is placed all good.

OP gave wrong address
OP calls in next day to provide correct address. We cancel original and book new order completely. No problem, lots of time left to deal with everything. a week later we send confirmation for install in a couple weeks.

OP calls very upset on install date
incumbent field tech shows up at wrong address. calls OP. tech and OP and TSI all on phone. Field tech can't complete his order since it's wrong so he can't do the work (though, could he have hooked him up and just close the order as wrong address?, I don't know), OP has no service and calls us.. CSR takes call, gets Mac involved. Mac is there ahead of his shift trying to help out. Mac and CSR look at info submitted with incumbent to try to figure out why field tech has wrong info. They discover that we submitted it correctly to incumbent but that the response back confirming still had old address. i.e. we did it right but some how incumbent crossed the info, we're assuming a cookie issue of some sort and the result is that tech has wrong info. looking at the info myself in the reply from the incumbent we did indeed submit it correctly.. mistake was on incumbent side. OP is pissed. especially after first install the previous year.. really unfortunate event with his friend. moving into new location.. very stressful = ka-pow! I get an email and here we are.

***************

So, I've spoken to Mac, I've spoken to the MOD who was there when Mac dealt with this. Mac actually spoke to the MOD right after the call with OP. Mac did *not* yell at the customer. I looked at who was sitting near him. I tried listening to calls of ppl sitting near him if I could hear anything in the background.. Mac does have a voice that sometimes is loud but having listened to the call before he got on the call.. Mac was not upset or anything like that. I could not listen to the call due to the way it was transferred. So, it's possible that he yelled but Mac is always very friendly and he's been with us for two years. If anything, I'd say he handled the situation very well, he caught what had actually happened and knew how to fix it. So, that's my take on Mac. Frankly, I think it was just a frustrating situation and I don't know that it much matters after everything I've seen.

With the Mac issue out of the way. What I've seen is that the OP was legitimately right about this all being a bunch of BS. This is just not how customers should be treated. In the first place, his service was messed up, through no fault of his own and he wanted what seemed to him to be a reasonable request.. ok.. you messed up - fix it! I'd even say he was pretty patient and certainly after the first time it happened he came back and moved and brought us with him.

I would say of the OP though, that I think that that call with Mac, he wasn't such an angel himself on that call but with everything else that happened, his friend, moving, no internet... shit happens sometimes and that was one of those calls.

I think that the bigger issue is that our hands really are tied in these situations and we end up having to do and say things to ppl that we would otherwise never do or say if we had the ability to deal with this properly. I do think that we can improve in the area of better checking the responses we receive from the incumbent and we could perhaps have found this error sooner. So I'd say that we're guilty of not finding that error sooner even though we didn't make the error.

My final verdict is that this time around, we actually did do everything right but that still didn't get us to a flawless install in this case. The OP having been burned once already plus the circumstance at the time. Especially that the field tech was right there.. was legitimately pissed off.

The take away is that I really sympathize with the OP, secondly we will double down on looking at the responses we get from the incumbent and third we need to keep trying to find ways to improve the interactions with incumbent which we do have something in the works for that.

As for the OPs request.. I think he's gotten a ton of attention to his problem. On the money front... we already have 6 weeks on the table. I'm prepared to offer him something for his previous headache from last year... I'll leave it to him to respond to my email I sent him.

For what it's worth. None of the interactions the OP had with us touched a single one of our techs/TSR as this was all install related issues.

I haven't re-read this because it's freaking long and I've been at it all day and I've spoken to a couple dozen ppl to make completely sure, I had all the facts and also to see where we could improve.. so if there's a lack of coherency.. I'm sorry about that too.

So, OP. I'm sorry for all your troubles, thank you for highlighting this and I hope we can keep you as a customer and I hope you can see that this hasn't landed on deaf ears.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

Napalm Frog

join:2002-10-02
Waterloo, ON
reply to Simpletwist
I don't mean to derail here, but I'm going through a similar he said she said thing with Teksavvy, Bell, and Primus (my phone provider). Called in to be bumped from 6mbps to 15mbps, and the following fiasco happened (I already posted in the Direct forum, this is abridged):

First set of techs (Bell then yours) came to set up 16mbps, phone line went out but we reached download speeds of 18mbps. Bell guy didn't even bother contacting us, leaving your third party guy clueless.

After taking to Primus (tried Bell first, basically told us screw you, let Primus deal with it), second tech came out, repaired phone line. Getting solid 18mbps and working phone line for 4h, then both knocked out. Told later this was due to loose wires (he even left our NID wide open).

Third tech came out restored both internet and phone, but internet barely reached 3mbps.

Called into Teksavvy, they had Bell fixed some mismatched pairing of sorts and we got the 6mbps we originally started with.

Today a senior tech came out, ran some tests at the NID, and said that our line can only handle 9mbps, if that at all (and be able to support phone at the same time). He said that his "boss" that he talked to on the phone knows all the lines. However, hypocritically he told me to switch to Bell to get fast speed and "easier to deal with" service. And it's weird why the lines wouldn't be able to handle it, because it's a new house in Milton, which should have this infrastructure set up being one of the fastest growing towns and all.

This leaves me angry and confused. I've had Teksavvy cable at another property and experienced bull with Rogers, and had Teksavvy DSL at two others, and have always had issues when setting up or changing service, but this weekend's 5 day experience of tech hell has taken the cake.
--
...hop...hop...ribbit...KABLOOIE!!!


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to TSI Marc
wow time for a long nights rest after that one... sounds like that's all you did today. A complaint in this case simply cost the OP days of pay and in my no so honest opinion cost Marc (teksavvy) quite a bit of money in productivity lost. Not that it fixes things but really, truly looked in to the issue and that had to have been a PITA to dedicate a full day + previous days to.

dm1336

join:2011-08-07
Scarborough, ON
reply to TSI Marc
Wow what a reply. Great work Marc with getting down to the bottom of everything. I applaud your effort that you and your company do everyday.

it sucks that your hands are tied in situations like these. I hope that this changes