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Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to travisc

Re: Teksavvy Installation Nightmare - Letter to CEO

The only solution is for the government to implement a solution similar to Australia's National Broadbank Network »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B···ralia%29 which consists of a FTTH network, 51% owned by the government and the remainder is owned by private firms.

Because Bell and Rogers are two capitalistic companies with the end game of making profits, therefore, they will never offer good services to 3rd party ISPs that are competing in their market.

Unless TekSavvy has a contact with loads of cash letting them build their own network, they will unfortunately continue suffering the BS of Rogers and Bell.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

said by Quake110:

The only solution is for the government to implement a solution similar to Australia's National Broadbank Network »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_B···ralia%29 which consists of a FTTH network, 51% owned by the government and the remainder is owned by private firms.

Wake me up when I stop laughing, this is the same government that will probably rubber stamp the Bell takeover of Astral, making them the biggest media company in the country?

The same government that issued "Let the Free markets decide".
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:12
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Simpletwist

The Australian answer might provide the need for speed, but you can bet your bottom dollar it will get all bogged down in bureaucracy too.

But it doesn't solve the problem of customer service.

The requirement here is a better SLA between the incumbent and the TPIA and that will have to be either mandated, or the incumbents will need beating around the head with a healthy 2 by 4 that the TPIA business is still good for them and that they should treat the TPIAs better.

With Bell 10 years ago, I'd have said this was possible with them, but not with Rogers. Today, both companies' indifference to prompt customer service is nothing short of pathetic. I remember Rogers techs coming out at 9 pm after being called at 6. I remember Bell working until 11pm on a snowy winter's night to restore phone service reported that afternoon. Those days are gone for their own customers ... generally it's 24-48 hours for their own customers to get service. And 48 plus for TPIA customers.

That's the part that has to change too!

And I'll agree with the comment anti the "no right to an opinion" issue. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. How much that opinion is worth is dependent on many things. I remember living in the US, paying my taxes just like an American, then being told that I had no right to an opinion about anything "American".

It's called "Free Thought" and "Free Speech" ... not "Free Thought for only Americans" or "Free Speech for only TekSavvy customers".



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

TPIA should have never been mandated without a sla. I run (in comparison ) a minuscule network, and have a spare for my 100/100 Internet connection.

How teksavvy operates in such a BS environments beyond me.



Minds Eye

@teksavvy.com
reply to travisc

There is NO solution. It is what it is. This is the business setup that is in place if you are a company that wants to sell internet service in this neck of the woods. As a TPIA provider, you deal with a Rogers or Bell and work with the system that is in place. As a customer of these TPIA providers (and paying less for a better deal), you sometimes forfeit the advantage of i) Smooth Installs, Smooth Transfers, Clearer Customer Service, Etc., Etc.

Not to say that Bell or Rogers own customer service is always that stellar, however the point here is that dealing with TPIA providers sometimes comes with risks.

Again, it is what it is so deal with it!

Nuff Said



Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
reply to sbrook

Sbrook, I don't think there can be a better SLA because of a simple reason: greed. By providing a lower quality service for the TPIA businesses, Rogers is making sure the headache alone will make the customers switch to Rogers.

And don't get my started about the CRTC. If it wasn't for the government's intervention, Bell would've got what they wanted. So the solution is to consider the internet as an essential service to the economy so that we would have a better infrastructure. There was a study that concluded the internet contributes greatly to the economy »www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11635318.

So unless the government gets involved (with the tories at the helm... NOT A CHANCE), the 3rd parties ISPs, in my opinion, will still have a problem with customer support.



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26

1 recommendation

reply to Simpletwist

ok. I've gone through it all.

So, here's what I've done.

I've gone back to when the OP originally signed up with us at the end of the year last year to see the entire relationship up to now.

The original signup had major issues also, and I'm writing this only because I think it's affecting the present situation.

Happy customer:
The OP cancelled from incumbent and called to signup with us, all is good. We book him for install date 4 days later.

OPs first install date is missed/not so happy customer:
but at the time the incumbent had recently changed policy and demanded 10 days to activate. Order was summarily cancelled by incumbent and we are told to resubmit new order after time period.

New install date missed - very upset customer/wants to talk to manager - manager doesn't handle it the best:
OP calls, tech no show. incumbent reason - tech had no access to wire room in building, left w/o talking to customer. OP naturally upset speaks to CSR asks for SRA then ask for MOD(manager on duty) - MOD should have been sympathetic but was not - both MOD and OP feeling powerless. lots of emotions = bad situation. all we can do is open new ticket with incumbent. OP not happy with that but there's simply no other way. Agrees to escalate.

Finally installed two days later and online. OP = sour taste

Faithful OP:
Now, fast forward to early/mid august. OP wants to move to location that already has incumbent service. Received cancel date 30 days out from incumbent. Called us with date to coordinate new install. Some confusion since he has to cancel his service that's already with TSI, new location has to cancel also with incumbent and new service started at new location. Either way it's sorted, OP is cordial, nice conversation all good. OP will get email with new date soon. couple days later gets email with install date in a month. Order is placed all good.

OP gave wrong address
OP calls in next day to provide correct address. We cancel original and book new order completely. No problem, lots of time left to deal with everything. a week later we send confirmation for install in a couple weeks.

OP calls very upset on install date
incumbent field tech shows up at wrong address. calls OP. tech and OP and TSI all on phone. Field tech can't complete his order since it's wrong so he can't do the work (though, could he have hooked him up and just close the order as wrong address?, I don't know), OP has no service and calls us.. CSR takes call, gets Mac involved. Mac is there ahead of his shift trying to help out. Mac and CSR look at info submitted with incumbent to try to figure out why field tech has wrong info. They discover that we submitted it correctly to incumbent but that the response back confirming still had old address. i.e. we did it right but some how incumbent crossed the info, we're assuming a cookie issue of some sort and the result is that tech has wrong info. looking at the info myself in the reply from the incumbent we did indeed submit it correctly.. mistake was on incumbent side. OP is pissed. especially after first install the previous year.. really unfortunate event with his friend. moving into new location.. very stressful = ka-pow! I get an email and here we are.

***************

So, I've spoken to Mac, I've spoken to the MOD who was there when Mac dealt with this. Mac actually spoke to the MOD right after the call with OP. Mac did *not* yell at the customer. I looked at who was sitting near him. I tried listening to calls of ppl sitting near him if I could hear anything in the background.. Mac does have a voice that sometimes is loud but having listened to the call before he got on the call.. Mac was not upset or anything like that. I could not listen to the call due to the way it was transferred. So, it's possible that he yelled but Mac is always very friendly and he's been with us for two years. If anything, I'd say he handled the situation very well, he caught what had actually happened and knew how to fix it. So, that's my take on Mac. Frankly, I think it was just a frustrating situation and I don't know that it much matters after everything I've seen.

With the Mac issue out of the way. What I've seen is that the OP was legitimately right about this all being a bunch of BS. This is just not how customers should be treated. In the first place, his service was messed up, through no fault of his own and he wanted what seemed to him to be a reasonable request.. ok.. you messed up - fix it! I'd even say he was pretty patient and certainly after the first time it happened he came back and moved and brought us with him.

I would say of the OP though, that I think that that call with Mac, he wasn't such an angel himself on that call but with everything else that happened, his friend, moving, no internet... shit happens sometimes and that was one of those calls.

I think that the bigger issue is that our hands really are tied in these situations and we end up having to do and say things to ppl that we would otherwise never do or say if we had the ability to deal with this properly. I do think that we can improve in the area of better checking the responses we receive from the incumbent and we could perhaps have found this error sooner. So I'd say that we're guilty of not finding that error sooner even though we didn't make the error.

My final verdict is that this time around, we actually did do everything right but that still didn't get us to a flawless install in this case. The OP having been burned once already plus the circumstance at the time. Especially that the field tech was right there.. was legitimately pissed off.

The take away is that I really sympathize with the OP, secondly we will double down on looking at the responses we get from the incumbent and third we need to keep trying to find ways to improve the interactions with incumbent which we do have something in the works for that.

As for the OPs request.. I think he's gotten a ton of attention to his problem. On the money front... we already have 6 weeks on the table. I'm prepared to offer him something for his previous headache from last year... I'll leave it to him to respond to my email I sent him.

For what it's worth. None of the interactions the OP had with us touched a single one of our techs/TSR as this was all install related issues.

I haven't re-read this because it's freaking long and I've been at it all day and I've spoken to a couple dozen ppl to make completely sure, I had all the facts and also to see where we could improve.. so if there's a lack of coherency.. I'm sorry about that too.

So, OP. I'm sorry for all your troubles, thank you for highlighting this and I hope we can keep you as a customer and I hope you can see that this hasn't landed on deaf ears.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


Napalm Frog

join:2002-10-02
Waterloo, ON
reply to Simpletwist

I don't mean to derail here, but I'm going through a similar he said she said thing with Teksavvy, Bell, and Primus (my phone provider). Called in to be bumped from 6mbps to 15mbps, and the following fiasco happened (I already posted in the Direct forum, this is abridged):

First set of techs (Bell then yours) came to set up 16mbps, phone line went out but we reached download speeds of 18mbps. Bell guy didn't even bother contacting us, leaving your third party guy clueless.

After taking to Primus (tried Bell first, basically told us screw you, let Primus deal with it), second tech came out, repaired phone line. Getting solid 18mbps and working phone line for 4h, then both knocked out. Told later this was due to loose wires (he even left our NID wide open).

Third tech came out restored both internet and phone, but internet barely reached 3mbps.

Called into Teksavvy, they had Bell fixed some mismatched pairing of sorts and we got the 6mbps we originally started with.

Today a senior tech came out, ran some tests at the NID, and said that our line can only handle 9mbps, if that at all (and be able to support phone at the same time). He said that his "boss" that he talked to on the phone knows all the lines. However, hypocritically he told me to switch to Bell to get fast speed and "easier to deal with" service. And it's weird why the lines wouldn't be able to handle it, because it's a new house in Milton, which should have this infrastructure set up being one of the fastest growing towns and all.

This leaves me angry and confused. I've had Teksavvy cable at another property and experienced bull with Rogers, and had Teksavvy DSL at two others, and have always had issues when setting up or changing service, but this weekend's 5 day experience of tech hell has taken the cake.
--
...hop...hop...ribbit...KABLOOIE!!!



Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to TSI Marc

wow time for a long nights rest after that one... sounds like that's all you did today. A complaint in this case simply cost the OP days of pay and in my no so honest opinion cost Marc (teksavvy) quite a bit of money in productivity lost. Not that it fixes things but really, truly looked in to the issue and that had to have been a PITA to dedicate a full day + previous days to.


dm1336

join:2011-08-07
Scarborough, ON
reply to TSI Marc

Wow what a reply. Great work Marc with getting down to the bottom of everything. I applaud your effort that you and your company do everyday.

it sucks that your hands are tied in situations like these. I hope that this changes



Quake110
Premium
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON

1 edit
reply to TSI Marc

I have to applaud you for the effort you've undertaken to get to the bottom of this problem. And I hope you've learned some useful information about how to communicate better with Bell and Rogers.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to TSI Marc

Thank you.



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to Simpletwist

Interesting, just discovered a nice mention on my twitter and here:

»www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments···ersbell/
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON
reply to Simpletwist

So nice work Marc on clearing everything up as best you could. It still doesn't solve the overall problem that your business model is basically broken. Your relationship with Bell and Rogers needs to be better. I know that's easy for me to say as some guy on an Internet forum, but it's the truth.

Every time this happens, complain to the CRTC. Send 'em 10 complaints a day until they pay attention. Their new mandate lately seems to be to help the consumer, allegedly anyway, and what better way than to put some regulation with teeth into your relationship with the incumbents?



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26

I hear you and can see how you'd say that but I don't think it's broken, I think it's still in its infancy with this incumbent... with others we're not seeing this level of problems.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5
reply to Quake110

said by Quake110:

said by zacron:

We need the R0CKY model back. Simple.

I don't think it will do any good. As sbrook said, TekSavvy's hands are tied because Rogers TPIA clients are prioritized below their own. So right now, they can't really push things other than reimburse their clients. If they had their own techs and equipment, that would be a different story.

I know this will NEVER happen, ever. But it would be really sweet if TekSavvy bought out all the 3rd party Contractors like Link-On that rogers usually contracts out to do cable installs. Though from what I saw Link-On themselves are fairly big or at least give that impression. That would've given TekSavvy nearly instant overnight "techs & equipment", that could be rolled.

--
You see there is only one constant. One universal. It is the only real truth. Causality. Action, reaction. Cause and effect.
Twitter:Merv Chat:irc.teksavvy.ca
Expand your moderator at work

grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1
reply to travisc

Re: Teksavvy Installation Nightmare - Letter to CEO

said by travisc:

Every time this happens, complain to the CRTC. Send 'em 10 complaints a day until they pay attention. Their new mandate lately seems to be to help the consumer, allegedly anyway, and what better way than to put some regulation with teeth into your relationship with the incumbents?

10 a day? Well, we usually see 1 or 2 complaints a day on the TS forums here, and chances are that there are PLENTY of people that don't report this stuff on the TS forum. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 15-30 Shrobellustronco related problems at TekSavvy each day.

balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1

quote:
10 a day? Well, we usually see 1 or 2 complaints a day on the TS forums here, and chances are that there are PLENTY of people that don't report this stuff on the TS forum. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 15-30 Shrobellustronco related problems at TekSavvy each day.
What do you expect... its a tech support forum. If everything was constantly peachy for everyone there would be no TS jobs, just CS jobs.

Things break, constantly, no matter who your provider is. If yours isn't breaking today your in the lucky 99.99999% if yours does your in the unlucky 0.00001%

grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1

said by balur:

quote:
10 a day? Well, we usually see 1 or 2 complaints a day on the TS forums here, and chances are that there are PLENTY of people that don't report this stuff on the TS forum. I wouldn't be surprised if there were 15-30 Shrobellustronco related problems at TekSavvy each day.
What do you expect... its a tech support forum. If everything was constantly peachy for everyone there would be no TS jobs, just CS jobs.

Things break, constantly, no matter who your provider is. If yours isn't breaking today your in the lucky 99.99999% if yours does your in the unlucky 0.00001%

That wasn't my point. The other guy suggested that TS file a complaint whenever Rogers/Bell screws up their order at about 10 a day. So I said TS should file them every time there's a screw up.

TS has control over their CS one way or another, they don't have control over Rogers/Bell's contractors.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26

1 edit
reply to travisc

said by travisc:

So nice work Marc on clearing everything up as best you could. It still doesn't solve the overall problem that your business model is basically broken. Your relationship with Bell and Rogers needs to be better. I know that's easy for me to say as some guy on an Internet forum, but it's the truth.

Every time this happens, complain to the CRTC. Send 'em 10 complaints a day until they pay attention. Their new mandate lately seems to be to help the consumer, allegedly anyway, and what better way than to put some regulation with teeth into your relationship with the incumbents?

I've thought about this some more since yesterday and I want to expand a bit on this since it's at the root of all of this.

So, I think it's important to say that I think the incumbent is better today then they were a year ago. As are we for that matter.

I think it's an evolution, it's a process, where we're all learning and over time things change for all sorts of reasons. I'd say that one of the biggest areas of problems is when they actually make those changes to improve things, it creates problems at the beginning then it gets better. So when they're changing often over the course of a year, it ends up looking like it's always messed up but I think it is already improving.

These situations though are also helpful in the sense that they provide clear indications of where some of the problems remain and it helps to reference clear examples. It's painful this way but it does change over time.

So, I don't want to sound like I'm defending or whatever but I'm more trying to be fair to the situation. Additionally, it's the back to school rush and we've processed a ton of orders so they are more busy then normal right now. In the grand scheme of things, the large majority have not experienced this but that doesn't discount that we need to tackle these problems.

...those are my thoughts
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan

join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Simpletwist

A thorough investigation (my congrats) and fair assessment of the way things are out there. Change is never easy and in most cases takes years to iron out. The best you can hope for is improvement over time and continuing to be professional, open and straightforward with your customers just as you have been doing.
--
If my online experience is enhanced, why are my speeds throttled?? BHell... A Public Futility.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to TSI Marc

"The Incumbent" you aren't allowed to say Rogers?



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:12

I used "incumbent" to refer to any of the people that provide the customer connectivity ... Rogers, Bell, Videotron, Shaw, Cogeco, Telus

Marc referred to "the incumbent" in response to my reference.



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

"The Incumbent" you aren't allowed to say Rogers?

seems these days nobody is happy when we point too many fingers. seems best to leave it neutral. I can say their name all I want.. I think I probably did in a few posts earlier...

When you know how the new social medial tools work these days... looking for key words... you know it will for sure hit certain radars.

plus... I'm not trying to make enemies there either.. so I want to be respectful on all fronts so it's a bit of a tightrope balancing act.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26

Due to explosive growth we are seeing some unforeseen provisioning issues. Rogers is working diligently with us to deliver the best possible customer experience. We're sorry for these problems and we will work to correct them as expediently as possible.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

I used "incumbent" to refer to any of the people that provide the customer connectivity ... Rogers, Bell, Videotron, Shaw, Cogeco, Telus

Marc referred to "the incumbent" in response to my reference.

I did that too
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc:

said by elwoodblues:

"The Incumbent" you aren't allowed to say Rogers?

seems these days nobody is happy when we point too many fingers. seems best to leave it neutral. I can say their name all I want.. I think I probably did in a few posts earlier...

When you know how the new social medial tools work these days... looking for key words... you know it will for sure hit certain radars.

plus... I'm not trying to make enemies there either.. so I want to be respectful on all fronts so it's a bit of a tightrope balancing act.

While I realise you need to maintain a relationship with "The Incumbent" , finger pointing can only lead to additional evidence for the CRTC to finally wake up and realize treating TPIA customers like retail customers just doesn't work.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to TSI Marc

Marc, thanks for really diving into this problem and explaining it all to the OP and everyone here...

I think that the incumbents will always try to slash your tires when they know they can get away with it, and let's face it, they can and there's nothing you can do about it...

These install issues have always been around, but since TSI has exponentially grown over the past few years, complaints like these are just seen more often.

Knock wood I've had positive install/upgrade experiences, but I cringe at the possibility of having some line or signal related issues at some point and having to deal with Bell or Rogers (I have both DSL & Cable) come in and yank my chain and charge some bogus fees...
--
GO BLUE JAYS!



TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:26
reply to elwoodblues

True but is this really the best forum for that? If we're going to do something at the CRTC.. we should make our case there and do it respectfully also.

I think we'll always have our differences of opinion with them but we should be able to agree on some things some of the time...

At the end of the day though, someday I/we may need your support to send a really clear message and that's when we need a way to do that. There's no doubt in my mind that the UBB path was completely altered as a result of that petition.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy