Topic 'Re: One reason why i hate installers!' in forum 'Rants, Raves, and Praise' - dslreports.com

Re:  

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 02:26:12 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by Dustyn:

I honestly would have thought it was Windows Me that was screwing things up.

One particular component of NU was creating hundreds of zero byte files. I was told how to manually delete the files, as well as to not use that component. If I had researched the cause of the problem from the beginning, I could have recovered without the re-install.

I played with a relative's Winows 98se box. In only one regard could I see a difference; and in that regard (user resources) I found Windows Me to be superior.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re:  

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 01:21:13 EDT

Dustyn posted :

said by NormanS:

said by Dude111:

Its all pretty interesting Norm!!!!

How would 98,XP respond if they didnt have a reg?? (If every file had its settings LOCALLY in its folder)

I reinstalled windows ME a couple of times due to an issue with the Norton Utilities "System Doctor"; before I found out from the gurus in the old Windows newsgroups that it was Norton screwing things up.

Wow.
I honestly would have thought it was Windows Me that was screwing things up.
And you say you "RE-installed" Windows Me...? Why? j/k lol ;)
--
Remember that cool hidden "Graffiti Wall" here on BBR? After the name change I became the "owner", so to speak as it became: Dustyn's Wall »[Serious] RIP

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 01:03:34 EDT

Dustyn posted :

said by Dude111:

They leave crap all over your registry!! -- Even if you uninstall the program,the install keys,etc are still there on some!!!

I found 28 entries under install (components) to programs i dont have anymore,couldnt believe it..... Things i had gotton rid of long ago!!

Its always good to keep your reg as clean as can be :)

I prefer stand alone EXE's .. No crap in the reg! (Or very little if there is)

I have done ALOT OF REG CLEANING lately..... Last week i checked UNINSTALL and found 2 entries...

You can help prevent anything from being left over BEFORE you install one of those hard to remove programs when you use a service such as Revo Uninstaller Pro. It monitors and records what is being added, modified, and changed on your system during the install (registry, files and folders) so you can undo all those changes after the install. I also allow it to record changes after the install by launching the program I've just installed by Revo Pro and customizing it. It's very powerful and it works every time on those programs that never remove themselves 100%. It's not required on all programs, but for some that have poorly written installers it's fantastic! It's kind of like a "preventative" measure... So now I don't have to use those "Registry Cleaners" nearly as often. :)
EDIT: It will also search out and remove programs that were installed with Windows Installer, or any other third party installer. Even a broken installation can be completly and safely removed. And no... I don't work for Revo... I just love their products because they get the job done right the first time! Or in a lot of other cases... the 2nd time. ;) :D
--
Remember that cool hidden "Graffiti Wall" here on BBR? After the name change I became the "owner", so to speak as it became: Dustyn's Wall »[Serious] RIP

Re:  

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:35:06 EDT

Xioden posted : »www.hdtune.com/

Re:  

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:06:45 EDT

Cthen posted :

said by sivran:

And yet, keeping your settings with your program is making a comeback so to speak--in the form of "portable" software.

Most of my daily-use apps are portable. Portable versions of Opera, Firefox, Q-Dir, Thunderbird... I can reinstall my OS or stuff 'em all on a flash drive and pick right back up where I left off.

Yes but now, it still has to go through the OS for what it can't do. It can't just hijack the whole machine without an exploit of some sort.
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:04:21 EDT

Cthen posted : Ah yes, the final lock down all the way around. In that one software developers did fine for the most part but the hardware vendors got pissed that they couldn't be lazy anymore with the drivers. ;)
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek

Re:  

Wed, 12 Sep 2012 00:03:42 EDT

sivran posted : And yet, keeping your settings with your program is making a comeback so to speak--in the form of "portable" software.

Most of my daily-use apps are portable. Portable versions of Opera, Firefox, Q-Dir, Thunderbird... I can reinstall my OS or stuff 'em all on a flash drive and pick right back up where I left off.
--
Think Outside the Fox.

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 23:41:45 EDT

Oleg posted : How about good old Windows 2000?

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 23:31:51 EDT

Cthen posted :

said by Dude111:

Its all pretty interesting Norm!!!!

How would 98,XP respond if they didnt have a reg?? (If every file had its settings LOCALLY in its folder)

Then you would have what happened with Win 3.1 and Win95. Programs could take full control of the machine and run amok even screwing with other programs. Not only that, even lazy developers could sell ya broken software that you would have to fix yourself. Remember the days of just clicking the mouse or a simple keystroke could crash the system?

Win95 was mostly a GUI upgrade and an introduction to the registry. Win98 was the underlying improvements and finally force developers into doing things right. ;)
--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 22:18:39 EDT

sivran posted : Got a utility for measuring read times?

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 21:22:42 EDT

Xioden posted : Again, just because a file is fragmented does not mean there is going to be a large performance hit due to it.

Having shown quite a few people how to defrag specific files for games so that they are all in the same location on the hard drive has resulted in massive load time reductions for some of them (talking 5+ minute load times down to under a minute).

There is no "confirmation bias" either, you can readily measure the read time of files before and after defragmenting them.

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:18:59 EDT

sivran posted : I think people suffer a lot of confirmation bias when it comes to these things.

That laptop's hard drive was a near-solid mass of yellow (fragged) in MyDefrag.
--
Think Outside the Fox.

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 18:16:47 EDT

Xioden posted :

said by sivran:

I got games. I play them. I also frequently load up some large files--truecrypt file-based volume, movies, etc.

I also defragged a friend's laptop after three years of neglect. No improvement.

Stuff like movies you won't notice unless it's extremely bad, since players use buffers. Disable buffering and if the movie is fragmented enough you will have issues viewing it without pauses.

After 3 years of neglect, fragmented files is probably the least of the issues with your friends laptop, or the fragmentation isn't that bad.

Defragmenting will also only yield better load times if the files that are being loaded are fragmented, as well as how they are fragmented. You take a 1GB file, and slip in a 24KB file at the 500MB mark, thus fragmenting the file into 2 pieces, there won't really be any performance hit beyond 1-2ms. Now split that file up all over the drive to where for a single file it has to basically go over the entire disk platter...

Defragmenting can absolutely improve loading times, and oftentimes not just by miniscule amounts. It's not even remotely comparable to registry cleaning.

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 17:37:11 EDT

sivran posted : I got games. I play them. I also frequently load up some large files--truecrypt file-based volume, movies, etc.

I also defragged a friend's laptop after three years of neglect. No improvement.
--
Think Outside the Fox.

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:13:43 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by Boricua65:

said by NormanS:

May be true for Windows 9x systems; but I've had no performance issues with Windows XP or Windows 7 which could be attributed to "gunk" in the registry. I only reinstalled Windows 7 to go from x64 to x86, and then only because hardware limitations made x64 pretty useless.

In my case, I went from x86 to x64 and gave the 7 x86 to my roommate.

It is my understanding that my license was to use, "either x64, or use x86"; but not both simultaneously. It was a three-pack, meaning I could install on up to three computers. Not on six.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 14:10:47 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by Dude111:

Its all pretty interesting Norm!!!!

How would 98,XP respond if they didnt have a reg?? (If every file had its settings LOCALLY in its folder)

I am only saying I have never had a performance hit caused by a "dirty" registry.

I reinstalled windows ME a couple of times due to an issue with the Norton Utilities "System Doctor"; before I found out from the gurus in the old Windows newsgroups that it was Norton screwing things up. I did use the NU registry cleaner on that system, but eventually gave it up when I realized two things:

• I was mostly blowing away MRU lists.
• I was not getting any better performance for doing that.

I reinstalled Windows XP exactly once; after I realized I had screwed up the Windows 7 upgrade install. I basically did that to "reset" the computer to its pre-upgrade state so I could start the upgrade process over. I did not install NU under XP, and never used a registry cleaner. Never had a performance issue due to a "dirty" registry.

I reinstalled Windows 7 exactly once. When I noticed that Windows 7 x64 was still seeing only 3.5GB of 4.0GB of installed RAM. Some research pointed to HP "cheaping out", and using a chipset which only had 4.0GB of address lines, max. So I figured there wasn't much I was gaining, and I had a couple of older applications, and one hardware device driver, which didn't work under x64, but did under x86; so I reverted. Never had a performance issue due to a "dirty" registry.

So a little more research and figured it out: Performance issues can be caused by many things, but not by a "dirty" registry.

BTW, 40tude Dialog, all GRC utilities I have used don't place any registry settings, as far as I am aware, and run just fine.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 13:24:55 EDT

Boricua65 posted :

said by NormanS:

In my case, I went from x86 to x64 and gave the 7 x86 to my roommate.
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:34:30 EDT

Santa Fe posted : I tried using jv16 PowerTools once to clean the Registry. Even though I had it set to Beginner mode which they claimed was there so one couldn't mess up the registry, it did anyway. :p Oh Well, Xubuntu 12.04's nice. ;)
--
Explore Xubuntu. Like It? Install It. [Love It]!

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:28:52 EDT

Santa Fe posted : ...but I think I've found Dude111 's long lost clock! ;)

And now back to our regularly scheduled post..... ;)
--
Explore Xubuntu. Like It? Install It. [Love It]!

Not meaning to De-Rail this post...

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 03:17:41 EDT

Dude111 posted : Its all pretty interesting Norm!!!!

How would 98,XP respond if they didnt have a reg?? (If every file had its settings LOCALLY in its folder)

Re:  

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 03:04:42 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by Dude111:

Responsible reg cleaning helps performance :) (I guess thats why some ppl just reinstall thier OS now and then right?? (They think its easier than manually cleaning the reg))

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 02:23:11 EDT

Dude111 posted : I opened regseeker tonight and searched for CLSID in the reg and i went to that branch,went thru all the IDs and i had a few "Value not set" so i googled them and discovered I dont have the programs that are assigned to them anymore.. (Regvac and something else) so i deleted them..... Then i ran regseeker and it found a couple now INVALID ACTIVE-X ENTRIES (Since the keys are now gone that reffered to them)

Responsible reg cleaning helps performance :) (I guess thats why some ppl just reinstall thier OS now and then right?? (They think its easier than manually cleaning the reg))

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:45:04 EDT

Tweakbl posted : I use all 4 of Piriform's free apps quite regular especially CCleaner.
Defraggler is nice.
Speccy is good.
CCleaner is awesome.
Recuva is brilliant.

In fact I like them so much I install them on some customers PC's and tell them they should use them.

While Registry Cleaning may be a bit of Snake Oil pitches and sales. I do like to clean it out if I have done a lot of free ware experimenting.
CCleaner is not mainly a Registery cleaner by the way. It is a Temp Folders and History Cleaner.

Re:  

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 22:29:30 EDT

fatness posted :

said by NormanS:

I recently had a case of "slow browsing"; similar to a saturated upload. Ran a number of diagnostics, but found no evidence of mystery applications uploading stuff. It finally hit me, after a 'tracert' failed for trying to trace to an IPv6 address: I had attempted, unsuccessfully, to establish a '6in4' tunnel to HE. Apparently, the TCP/IP stack decided I was on a pure IPv6 network, and was trying to resolve AAAA records (IPv6) before falling back to A records (IPv4).

I doubt if a registry cleaner could have fixed that.

It wouldn't have. It wouldn't have have added air to a tire with a slow leak, or fixed a squeaky door either. ;)
--
my pants are parched and thirsty

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:56:40 EDT

BigBlarg posted : If that's the case, the computer would only benefit from cleaning the registers for the first few minutes it runs.

Edit : And defrag is done in the background since XP I think.

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:45:16 EDT

dave posted :

said by BigBlarg:

I never cleaned my registers

It's important. The CPU has several registers, and when you shut down the computer, they are left containing whatever crap was last there.

You should always run a program to zero out all registers after system shutdown, otherwise it's harder for the CPU to write new values into them.

It's the same principle as erasing a blackboard now and then. Or at least, I think it is.

The same is true of RAM. It takes more effort to write on top of words that aren't zero; the computer has to press harder on the RAM chips.

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:23:09 EDT

Dude111 posted : Indeed my friend....... DEFRAGGING is quite good! (And faster doesnt mean better when defragging)

I use the defrag program that came with Windows... I tried using WinME's defrag and i notice it goes TOO FAST and misses some stuff... (Its not as good as 98's defrag)

Speed is not something you should want when DEFRAGGING,you want a good job done!!

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:42:42 EDT

workablob posted :

said by Mospaw:

http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

Scrubs it clean. I do it once a month and after uninstalls.

CCleaner is definitely a reputable program but cleaning the registry to improve performance is a debunked myth unless you are troubleshooting a problem and suspect orphaned registry entries.

»lifehacker.com/5033518/debunking···ng-myths

It's usually harmless to do though and if it makes you feel better carry on.

Dave

EDITL Added Lifehacker link.
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

Re:  

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:24:01 EDT

Xioden posted :

said by sivran:

I have a similar experience with defragging. Minuscule--if any--benefit.

If you're just checking email or browsing the web sure. When you go to play a game that's trying to load a couple gigs of data that is split up in 500 places around the hard drive it can begin to make a pretty noticeable difference.

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:49:26 EDT

Oleg posted : Yep. It bugs me to hell. I have to think twice before installing a new app :p

Re:  

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 12:06:53 EDT

sivran posted : I have a similar experience with defragging. Minuscule--if any--benefit.

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 07:56:10 EDT

mastsethi posted : To counter your problem, may I present to you, our very own, Ccleaner and another rising star..TuneUp utilities.

Mon, 10 Sep 2012 01:57:41 EDT

Dude111 posted : Does that scan the reg for keys to programs that you dont have anymore?? (In the INSTALL section)

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 20:26:57 EDT

Boricua65 posted : Revo Uninstaller works for me besides CCleaner. I use both in my arsenal of utilities.
--
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. Robert Orben

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 20:24:42 EDT

BigBlarg posted : I never cleaned my registers :/

and yet, my computer still feels as fast as when I had installed Windows on it...

Re:  

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 16:48:31 EDT

PrntRhd posted : NormanS,

Read what psafux posted.

You have to look under Tools in CCleaner to even find the registry cleaner, it is not CCleaner's primary purpose.
CCleaner is a great free utility program that cleans installers and temp files left on the system after badly behaved installers have finished loading programs, something that is all too common.

Registry cleaners have risks, remove just one incorrectly targeted DLL and you just hosed the Windows installation.
The registry cleaner in CCleaner always prompts the user to back up the registry in case something goes badly.

Re:  

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:14:05 EDT

psafux posted :

said by NormanS:

I don't know what else CCleaner does; only ever see it mentioned in the context of registry cleaning.

Supposedly a registry "gunked up" with orphan entries slows things down.

In theory yes. In practicality its a very miniscule amount - an amount that any system built in the last 5 or 6 years is easily able to overcome with near total transparency to the user. It's the same basis with which programmers write (or should write) their code, to be as efficient on resources as possible. It stemmed from the good old days when the processors were slow & inefficient. A modern processor running through an extra 100 lines of code is quite different than it's elderly counterpart running the same code 15+ years ago.

On a sidenote, CCleaner has quite a few handy features aside from registry cleaning. It supports temp file cleaning and provides an environment from which to uninstall applications or remove the entries to those applications from add/remove (in the semi-common case of the program listed but already removed). The same can be done through the Windows registry but CCleaner has a clean interface which avoids issues related to removing wrong registry values. It also has 'secure delete' functionality among other things.

I have used CCleaner for years, I have never had it bork a system and I have never had a customer / friend / family member had a borked system from using it. The same cannot be said about Registry Mechanic, et al.

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:08:32 EDT

Bruschi posted : Registry entries used to be better in the 80s.
--
Professional student pilot!

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:02:12 EDT

AndandoPaleo posted : Your teeth will be whiter, too!
--
ancient walking one

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 14:44:12 EDT

John2Jonnie posted :

said by NormanS:

said by Dude111:

Its always good to keep your reg as clean as can be :)

Why?

Why?? Why you ask????

Why to keep that 80's minty fresh smell is why I tells ya!

:p
--
Where it all began: »groups.yahoo.com/group/TsDoItYou···ormones/

Not Another Moment Loss To seizures . . . . .

Re:  

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 13:29:51 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by PrntRhd:

CCleaner program is not snake oil, but "registry cleaners" can be categorized as such.

I don't know what else CCleaner does; only ever see it mentioned in the context of registry cleaning.

Supposedly a registry "gunked up" with orphan entries slows things down. I have no empirical evidence in support of that claim. I recently had a case of "slow browsing"; similar to a saturated upload. Ran a number of diagnostics, but found no evidence of mystery applications uploading stuff. It finally hit me, after a 'tracert' failed for trying to trace to an IPv6 address: I had attempted, unsuccessfully, to establish a '6in4' tunnel to HE. Apparently, the TCP/IP stack decided I was on a pure IPv6 network, and was trying to resolve AAAA records (IPv6) before falling back to A records (IPv4).

I doubt if a registry cleaner could have fixed that. Not even certain about CCleaner. But MS includes a nifty utility, at least since Windows XP. I just ran System Restore to a point prior to my failed attempt to create a 6in4 tunnel. All is now back to normal.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Re:  

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 13:01:11 EDT

PrntRhd posted : CCleaner program is not snake oil, but "registry cleaners" can be categorized as such.

Re:  

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 01:01:46 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by Dude111:

Well to keep things as easy for your computer as they can be for one :)

My computers have always been easy. No snakeoil needed! :D
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 00:47:38 EDT

Dude111 posted : Well to keep things as easy for your computer as they can be for one :)

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Sun, 09 Sep 2012 00:27:09 EDT

NormanS posted :

said by Dude111:

Its always good to keep your reg as clean as can be :)

Why?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Sat, 08 Sep 2012 23:25:04 EDT

Dude111 posted : I hear ya buddy!

Re: One reason why i hate installers!

Sat, 08 Sep 2012 23:24:27 EDT

Mospaw posted : »www.piriform.com/ccleaner

Scrubs it clean. I do it once a month and after uninstalls.

One reason why i hate installers!

Sat, 08 Sep 2012 23:14:39 EDT

Dude111 posted : They leave crap all over your registry!! -- Even if you uninstall the program,the install keys,etc are still there on some!!!

I found 28 entries under install (components) to programs i dont have anymore,couldnt believe it..... Things i had gotton rid of long ago!!

Its always good to keep your reg as clean as can be :)

I prefer stand alone EXE's .. No crap in the reg! (Or very little if there is)

I have done ALOT OF REG CLEANING lately..... Last week i checked UNINSTALL and found 2 entries...

Topic 'Re: One reason why i hate installers!' in forum 'Rants, Raves, and Praise' - dslreports.com

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