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Immer
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[Classes] 5.4 Disc Priest

From Derevka's new Blog page at How2Priest.com

Discipline and Tier 16 Bonuses
Posted by: Derevka On : August 8, 2013

Category: Discipline, Patch 5.4, Tier 16

Tier 16 is coming, and with that comes new gear and new set bonuses... what this also means is an opportunity to see where these bonuses will play.

Vestments of Ternion Glory

2 Piece- While Archangel is active, your critical chance is increased by 10%.

- This, while normally not exceptionally exciting, allows us to continue to scale well with crit. An extra 10% not only will create DA more reliably (and assuming you are triggering Archangel when additional healing is needed). Further, when activated along with Spirit Shell, you also now have more crit in the calculation providing an additional 10% scaling to your SS.

4 Piece - While Spirit Shell is active, you gain 10% haste and 3500 mastery.

- When we first saw this we were still recovering from Spirit Shell being reduced to a 10 second bufftime, and the 4pc seemed more of a bone being tossed our way to mitigate this loss-- and in a way, it is. However, 3500 mastery is nothing to ignore either! That alone is an increase to our base healing, and any incidental PW:S (or DA's from bouncing POMs or other residual heals) we cast are going to benefit from the absorption bonus as well. Perhaps the more important part of this 4pc bonus is the added 10% haste. This added 10% haste is going to be exceptionally important should we want to get our casts of POH/GH off during Spirit Shell's uptime.

Lets take a look at the math:

POH has a base cast time of 2.5 seconds. Since the cast needs to complete while you have Spirit Shell active, you have 10 seconds to fit these in. S o default SS will allow 2.5/10 or 4 casts of POH assuming no haste-- and assuming no movement or delay in those 10 seconds. However, we have the set bonus, haste rating, raid haste, and Borrowed Time to leverage.

Basic Formula: (( Desired # of Casts * Cast Time/ Spirit Shells Duration)/Haste -1)

Assuming No Haste:

((5*2.5/10)/1-1)= 25% Haste Required for 5 POH's in 10 Seconds

Lets take a look, under a series of assumptions, what haste % we would need to gain our 5th POH/GH cast under Spirit Shell. ( with and without 5% raid haste, activating SS with Borrowed Time on the first cast, and 4-piece set bonus.)

5 Casts of PoH/GHeal During Spirit Shell With Raid Haste
Haste Effects | Haste % | Rating
BT & 4pc 4.98% 2,116
4pc 8.23% 3,496
BT 15.48% 6,577
Nothing 19.05% 8,095

5 Casts of PoH/GHeal During Spirit ShellWithout 5% Raid Haste
Haste Effects | Haste % | Rating
BT & 4pc 10.23% 4,347
4pc 13.64% 5,795
BT 21.25% 9,031
Nothing 25.00% 10,625

Now, I urge folks to NOT chase a specific haste figure. Why? Well unlike traditional HoT/DoT breakpoints, those breakpoints do not require each tick to be cast by the user. Calculating without a buffer for movement or delay will now reduce you to only 4 casts under the effects of Spirit Shell. With that in mind, recalculating building in a second for delay, or you can aim for these as MINIMUMS. Much like all "haste breakpoint models", differences in in-game rounding and rounding in these charts can account for a point or two swing.

What do we learn from this information?

The chart shows that if Spirit Shell min/max is critical to your raid and your performance, then getting your 4-piece bonus is going to be key. Outside of that, the other important thing we learn from these calculations is that Discipline priests should be leading in every Spirit Shell with Borrowed Time. Missing out on that initial 15% cast time reduction is going to be critical if we want/need to get off casts of POH during Spirit Shell.

What we made clear in the front was that this does not provide any leeway regarding movement or latency. Lets assume we have full second lost during Spirit Shell's bufftime giving us 9 seconds. To get 5 casts in there, with 5% from your raid, Borrowed Time and our 4pc bonus... you'd need 16.64% haste for 5 casts-- that is a lot of haste, and far more than we'd want to incorporate as a Discipline Priest. This means we'll need to be certain we are casting Spirit Shell when we know we'll have minimal movement. (if any at all)

This begs the question: With 1 second of movement will we even be able to get 4 casts in?

4 Casts of PoH/GHeal in 9 Seconds (Movement) With 5% Raid Haste
Haste Effects Haste % Rating
BT & 4pc - -
4pc - -
BT 1.85% 787
Nothing 5.82% 2,474

4 Casts of PoH/GHeal in 9 Seconds (Movement) Without 5% Raid Haste
Haste Effects Haste % Rating
BT & 4pc - -
4pc 1.01% 429
BT 6.94% 2,951
Nothing 11.11% 4,722

So again, leading with the 4pc and Borrowed Time will be critical in insuring that you get at least your 4 casts in--- and potentially your 5th cast (previous graph). That is the trick: will that 5th cast be possible with any movement? (seems unlikely or at the very least rather difficult)

Related, you CAN continue to use Power Infusion (on every other spirit shell) to meet breakpoints. Below is a breakdown of haste levels required when Power Infusion is in effect with 1 second of Movement/Latency.

5 Casts of PoH/GHeal in 9 Seconds (PI & Movement) With 5% Raid Haste
Haste Effects Haste % Rating
BT & 4pc - -
4pc 0.21% 89
BT 6.92% 2,942
Nothing 10.23% 4,347


5 Casts of PoH/GHeal in 9 Seconds (PI & Movement) Without 5% Raid Haste
Haste Effects Haste % Rating
BT & 4pc 22.47% 9,552
4pc 26.26% 11,162
BT 34.72% 14,757
Nothing 38.89% 16,528

Does this mean we HAVE to take Power Infusion? No... if your raid is doing minimal movement, you might work out better electing to use another Level 75 talent, or use PI at a different point of the encounter.

Our set bonuses, while feeling like a method of off settting the Spirit Shell nerf will allow a Disc Priest to continue to leverage Spirit Shell and Archangel to the best of our abilities. We should be gearing and playing to expect 4 casts per Spirit Shell, however leveraging situations that allow for 5 casts.


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Immer
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reply to Carpie

Re: [Classes] 5.1 Healing Priest (HOLY DPS!)

It's a solid healing style... but it will take some getting used to.
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Carpie

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reply to Immer

I'm apprehensive also. I've never walked a step in a Holy spec's shoes but that day may be coming...



Immer
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I will admit that since the change to Chakra:Chastise, my gear is reforged to favor Holy. I'm trying to improve my disc set (if you "armory" my toon now, he's wearing his second LFR T14 helm... need to gem it when I get home). I'm apprehensive about what 5.2 will do to disc... we'll see.
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Immer
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Click for full size
My dps
Click for full size
the hps tradeoff for Holy DPS
In phase 2, the first goal was to make it to the end of the hallway.... once there, I dropped a LightSpring, HW:Sanctuary, then switched to Chakra:Chastise and unloaded everything I had on him. There were only 7 that made it to the platform... 3 dps (rogue that had been killed and brezzed, a hunter, a boomkin) and 4 healers.

Now, the druid and the monk were putting out solid heals, so I let them cover healing while I focused on my dps (SW:P, HF, Smitex3, HW:Chastise, Mindbender.... too bad I had switched my DivineStar for questing over to Cascade for healing... Cascade does nothing for dmg.) After seeing the first crappy number flash up, I decided to save cascade to heal the survivors, and I'd throw out a CoH and PoM when I saw our health getting low.

Notice that for Holy DPS to mean something, you have to give up healing for a while (unlike Disc). My healing numbers would have been much higher for this phase if I had been disc for the fight, but I don't think I would have pulled quite as much dps.

It was a 4min P2 kill... but it was awesome. When the fight was over, I got a lot of compliments and cheers of "check out that Holy DPS" and "You taught that bug to fear the LIGHT!". It felt pretty good.... but I never want to have to do that again, lol.

If you haven't tried Holy dps... give it a shot the next time you're out doing dailies. =)
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Immer
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Click for full size
So, rather than just quit (and wait for the eventual wipe), I decided to see how well I could catch up on the healing meters and rebuild my mana in the fight. See all of the red lines above? yeah... those are deaths. Tanks weren't handling Overwhelming assault well... so they got gibbed.... both of them (monk and DK). As Ta'yak started one-shotting folks, I picked a plate dps and used Guardian Spirit on him to extend his life... and I think one of the pally's used an LoH on him, too... but there was mad cargnage... but we pushed him to Phase 2.
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Immer
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Fellow priests... I'd like to share a story with you from last night's Blade Lord Ta'yak on LFR:

It was a chill evening... DarkLogix See Profile and I were just looking to cap out our VP and we thought... why not knock out a HOF LFR for 90VP? We got pulled into a wipe on the last trash before the first boss... /gulp.

We killed the first boss sloppily and the group was on to Blade Lord Ta'yak. Now, normally on LFR I like to switch to Disc for this fight if there is another priest healer... but there wasn't, so I stayed Holy. One of the raiders asked the tanks to pull Ta'yak to the end of the hallway (normal strat) to minimize tornado dmg... to which the tank responded "lol this is LFR, just go" and pulls the boss. I fired off a Holy Word: Sanctuary, PoM, and Cascade (to buy time to type) and said, "It doesn't hurt to follow the right strat, even in LFR"

The moment I hit {enter} my DBM warned of an impending Unseen Strike, so I bubbled myself (for protection and runspeed boost) and stood on top of the rogue that was targeted (so, behind the boss, right?). A mage blinked to us.... the rest of the raid ran away... /smh.

three individuals following game mechanics go splat

me: "well... I suppose it can hurt if you are one of only 3 following the right strat"

There were some "/rsay lol" shared... but the fight was still going, I got a brez, and the start of MY fight was blessed with only 25%mana.
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Immer
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Re: [Classes] 5.2 PTR Notes Healing Priest

said by Carpie:

You're not going to think very highly of my healing skills (though they've kept many a folk alive so far!) but I don't use Void Shift either. It scares the shift right out of me
....
Generally if things have broken down that poorly for me, we're all in a life/death situation so it's pulling out all the group heals/bubbles possible and praying to old, new, and false gods alike to get us through it.

first of all... /chuckle

If I use Void Shift in a dungeon, I'm usually just goofing around. I've learned to use Void Shift more and more in Raiding situations where I know we aren't going to get a Lay on Hands or something (raiding HoF has made me very comfortable with the Void Shift scenario).

In the past couple of weeks I've had at least 3 or 4 "last man standing" scenarios where micro-managing my mana sub-15% for the last 2 minutes of a fight (even planning when I might let myself die so that I get the Spirit of Redemption "buff") has won the day (both in LFR and in normal raiding).

These "extra tools" (VoidShift, Binding Heal, IF, PI, PoH, etc.) are what set us apart from the other healing classes. I've been focused on priestly healing since the end of Wrath... and there are still things I don't use as often as I should... still learning.
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Immer
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I out-perform my discipline spec by my holy spec... by a mile.

Disc numbers are funny. For disc to shine... the raid shouldn't be relying on his/her heals at all times. So, in a 3 heal situation where I can assign the other 2 healers to cover tanks and I'm free to atonement heal and plan out my cooldowns... it's godly (Feng and Spirit Kings really stand out for this).

But if you are trying to 2 heal a raid that does not yet out-gear the content... health bars start to pulse... and that makes me nervous. So, I switch to holy and life just goes a bit more smoothly.

My "favorite" is discipline... but I spend most of my time in Holy spec now.
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Carpie

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reply to Immer

You're not going to think very highly of my healing skills (though they've kept many a folk alive so far!) but I don't use Void Shift either. It scares the shift right out of me. I find myself in Oh Shift! situations more often than I let the tank get there. And I don't think the tank would like me switching my lack of life with him for my own self survival. lol

Generally if things have broken down that poorly for me, we're all in a life/death situation so it's pulling out all the group heals/bubbles possible and praying to old, new, and false gods alike to get us through it.

Of course I'm talking dungeon healing which is probably much different than raid healing which is probably where you are coming from. My raid healing experiences (which have been few) have all been in LFR where I could take a break to go make myself a sandwich and come back and still have everyone fine. LFR's are great for hiding bad healers.



Energystream
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Man everyone is Disc, guess I am the holdout sticking with Holy all this time.

I didn't realize they are nerginf both flash and binding in the next patch. That kind of sucks for the oh shit moments for me since I use flash to proc serenity, or whatever it is called to get faster GH's.

After trying out PVPing the past few days I can see why those two spells are getting nerfed. In that situation they are both very strong, and put out a lot of healing. Oh well, guess i'll have to remember to shield my self when I am getting pounded, trying to weave it in between heals.

But I do have to say that those nerfs/buffs are of much greater benefit to Disc than Holy, booo.



Immer
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Correct.

quote:
Inner Focus
Instant 45 sec cooldown
Requires Priest (Discipline)
Requires level 36
Reduces the mana cost of your next Flash Heal, Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing by 25% and increases its critical effect chance by 100%.
However... during the 45 seconds that IF is on CD, BHeal is a great way to keep heals on the tank while also healing yourself. In Holy, it also builds serendipity stacks. Binding Heal is a great spell and really should be a part of your toolkit (Disc or Holy). I'm not saying anyone is "fail" for NOT using it... just that it should be used.

Another great time to use it is after a well-timed Void Shift. If I know I'm safe(ish) and I see a tank having to spend extra time waiting on a tank swap... I'll fire a BHeal to top myself off (while keeping HPS on the tank), then fire Void Shift, then continue with Bheal if the tank is still under pressure, or I'll Fheal myself if the tank swap finally happened and the fight is back under control. As disc, this means that my IF is still ready for AA+SS+IF+POH spam, and If I'm holy then I have full Serendipty stacks for a hasted GH or PoH and a shot at DI proc (I really like DI).
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Carpie

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reply to Immer

I have Flash Heal, Greater Heal, and POH all replaced with macros that begin with /cast Inner Focus so I can get the crit. Since I heal mostly through Atonement, it's generally up whenever I need to hit one of those.

Unfortunately I can't see the desc of Inner Focus atm due to being websensed but I *think* it 100% crits the heal.



Immer
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Flash heal (1.5s cast, single target) = (15768 ~ 18324) + (164.2% (spell power))

Binding heal (1.5s cast, target and self) = (10896 ~ 14008) + (112.4% (spell power))

Prayer of Healing (2.5s cast, target's party) = (8450 ~ 8927) + (83.8% of (spell power))

My healer has 19855SP unbuffed.

Normal (non crit) FHeal for me should range between 48.4K and 50.9K (If I just cast it on myself)

Normal (non crit) B.Heal for me should range between 33.2K and 36.3K (as long as I don't target myself for the cast... it happens, lol)

Normal (non crit) POH for me should range between 25.1K and 25.6K (if I'm in the party of the of the person I cast the spell on AND am within 30yards of him/her).
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Carpie

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reply to Dissembled

said by Dissembled:

There are times, as a healer, where I sometimes think I'm going to have to let someone (DPS) die in order to make sure I self heal and live. The priest's Binding Heal is an excellent spell in that situation. Nerf or not.

Anyone have any idea how well the binding heal compares to an infused PoH? With the crit, I was hitting 60-70k heals through PoH last night on my ilvl 450-something priest which doesn't feel half bad for a party heal. If I get a chance tonight, I'll have to try them against one another. PoH gives the bubble too so...


Carpie

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reply to Immer

Re: [Classes] 5.1 Healing Priest

No way! That's awesome!



Immer
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pre / post sha-touched weapon
woah... now, I might just be late to the party, but last night I noticed the new Mindbender model that comes as a result of having a sha-touched weapon equipped. Immer approves!
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Immer
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Re: [Classes] 5.2 PTR Notes Healing Priest

said by Krisnatharok:

Except for that whole 30% nerf, eh?

well... if you don't use it now... and start using after the nerf... for you it would be a 70% buff.
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Dissembled

join:2008-01-23
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reply to Krisnatharok

said by Krisnatharok:

Except for that whole 30% nerf, eh?

There are times, as a healer, where I sometimes think I'm going to have to let someone (DPS) die in order to make sure I self heal and live. The priest's Binding Heal is an excellent spell in that situation. Nerf or not.


Krisnatharok
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reply to Dissembled

Except for that whole 30% nerf, eh?



Dissembled

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reply to Krisnatharok

said by Krisnatharok:

I don't think I have BH on my bars. If I do, it's like #8 or higher and I never use it.

You should take the time to get to know Binding Heal better. It's extremely useful in a pinch.


Krisnatharok
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said by Carpie:

I swore when I first read those also but then was fine after I kept reading:

Binding Heal healing reduced by 30%.
Flash Heal healing reduced by 30%.
Penance healing increased by 20%.
Power Word: Shield absorb increased by 40% for Disc and Holy.

I never use binding heal in my rotation now and my "oh shit" heal is Bubble and Penance in place of Flash Heal. So for me, these are actually awesome upgrades.

Cool, a pvp nerf and PVE buff. I don't think I have BH on my bars. If I do, it's like #8 or higher and I never use it.

The buffs to Penance and PW:S will be insane.
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Immer
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reply to Eumaeus

Re: [Classes] 5.0.4 Healing Priest

that's awesome news, thank you for sharing!



Eumaeus

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reply to Immer

Immer you'll be happy to hear that our original disc priest was kept on board after all. After discussing some of the healing issues with him he did much better and was a part of our first Grand Empress kill last night.

Thanks again for the feedback dudes!



Immer
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Re: [Classes] 5.2 PTR Notes Healing Priest

Penance should be a regular part of your rotation, whether it is on the tank for healing+grace+Aegis or on the enemy for dmg and Atonement smart healing of 3 targets (during periods of low dmg). It is a poor substitute for Flash Heal as an "oh shit" spell since it should be kept on CD.

The upgrade to Penance is nice, and I hope the increased healing will also impact its heal via atonement. The increase to the bubble is nice, but the mana cost of PW:S is still too high to flagrantly cast more than one per rapture or on DI procs.
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Carpie

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reply to Immer

I swore when I first read those also but then was fine after I kept reading:

Binding Heal healing reduced by 30%.
Flash Heal healing reduced by 30%.
Penance healing increased by 20%.
Power Word: Shield absorb increased by 40% for Disc and Holy.

I never use binding heal in my rotation now and my "oh shit" heal is Bubble and Penance in place of Flash Heal. So for me, these are actually awesome upgrades.



Immer
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said by MMO-Champion :

Priest
Spell Changes

• Binding Heal: Heals a friendly target and the caster for 7628 to 9806 (+ 78.7% of SpellPower). Low threat.
...
• Flash Heal: Heals a friendly target for 11041 to 12831 (+ 114.94% of SpellPower).

I have to say, I don't understand these nerfs, and I don't get what they are trying to fix with them. Is 5.2 just going to be a full-out PVP patch? I'm annoyed by the PvP focus.

/deepbreath

Neither of these nerfs should have a huge impact on Priests... but both Flash heal and Binding Heal serve as "oops" mechanics for Disc priests who failed to anticipate damage and now must catch up. What has me worried is that we expect to get more serious nerfs to SS and possibly PoH.
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Immer
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Re: [Classes] 5.0.4 Healing Priest

Awesome. Although it is a shame that a struggling disc priest will continue struggling. Maybe he'll get help he needs later on.
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Eumaeus

join:2009-12-10
Yorktown, VA
reply to Immer

You'll never guess who was a no-show to the raid despite signing up on the calendar, haha.

On the bright side, the pug disc priest we picked up instead will now be our guild disc priest and played much, much better.



Immer
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reply to Eumaeus

World of Logs will allow us to see which spells he's using to heal himself so much. That will tell us a lot. My bet is still a broken macro somewhere.
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