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dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY

[OOL] Is this how OOL does wireless????

Hi,

Again, I'm a longtime Verizon user who is a bit mystified by the way OOL does things.

Someone else I know has OOL service for about a year. This is a small business. He bought a wireless router because at the time OOL was not offering wireless, hooked it up to the Arris cable modem, and all was well.

A few weeks ago an OOL installer shows up, unannounced, to "install wireless". The owner isn't around at the time.

The installer puts in a splitter, installs another Arris unit, and to that he cables a Cisco 1142 wireless access point, attaches it to the wall, and leaves. No explanation, no instructions, no documentation, nothing.

First off, the Cisco AP was installed less than 3 feet from the existing wireless router. So that immediately gets blasted right off the air and takes down the network. There's a minimum spacing between WiFi antennas. Were they asked where they want the AP, they would have chosen an area where coverage was weak.

Second, because the Cisco AP was cabled to the Arris, it's outside the LAN. Why is this a problem? Because they have some wired devices, like a copier that's being used as a network printer. It's cabled to the 4 port wireless router. But when a PC connects to the Cisco AP, it can't see anything inside the LAN. That's why you get a router in the first place.

So, cable the Cisco AP to the router, you say? OK, but then you're inviting any OOL subscriber within a 300 foot radius into your LAN. Not a good idea. Which is, by the way, what you're doing if you do not have a router at all. Hey, if OOL wants to set up a hotspot, they can put one on the telephone pole. They don't have to use a subscriber's bandwidth for this.

Change the SSID and passphrase on the AP, you say? Well yeah, except that the 1142 is a lightweight AP, controlled entirely by the controller at OOL. It doesn't respond to the console port or have a Web interface.

I've poked around on the 'net and found a way to load the autonomous IOS onto the 1142, which gives them control over access. I'm not a Cisco expert, mind you. I'll have to wing it.

The question is, are they allowed to do this? I'm not physically altering the AP, and if they cancel the service, they'll have to return it, of course.

Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
It sounds like this is an Optimum WiFi indoor hotspot, designed to be used by OOL customers in general. It doesn't affect his bandwidth.

I don't know the agreements that business customers make with Cablevision, but he could ask them to take it out if he doesn't want his own customers to use Optimum WiFi. Seems to me that having an indoor hotspot is a no-lose situation.

rtbond

join:2007-11-28
Hopatcong, NJ
said by Bob4:

It sounds like this is an Optimum WiFi indoor hotspot, designed to be used by OOL customers in general. It doesn't affect his bandwidth.

I don't know the agreements that business customers make with Cablevision, but he could ask them to take it out if he doesn't want his own customers to use Optimum WiFi. Seems to me that having an indoor hotspot is a no-lose situation.

I agree, provided it does not degrade the private WiFi network that the business customer is already running.

frdrizzt

join:2008-05-03
Ronkonkoma, NY
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to dsldan
Someone must have spoken to CV to approve the install. The time may not have been discussed (and may not have been anything more than "in the upcoming weeks" as it would probably be considered a low-priority job), but that is how an indoor Optimum Wifi hot spot operates. It is not customizable by the business owner. You're not allowed to modify it, but can have it removed or moved.

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
said by frdrizzt:

Someone must have spoken to CV to approve the install.

No, it went down the way I described. They just showed up, unannounced.

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

It sounds like this is an Optimum WiFi indoor hotspot, designed to be used by OOL customers in general. It doesn't affect his bandwidth.

Ummmm... if an outside subscriber starts streaming Netflix while the AP is cabled to the LAN, well, yes, it does affect his bandwidth.

said by Bob4:

but he could ask them to take it out if he doesn't want his own customers to use Optimum WiFi. Seems to me that having an indoor hotspot is a no-lose situation.

say what? Did I say anything about "his own customers" using Wifi? That's an assumption on your part that has no basis in fact.

I just described 3 reasons why the hotspot is useless to the subscriber.
1) it was mounted in the wrong place
2) if outside the lan, you can't use the printers
3) if inside the lan, you're letting the neighbors into your lan

Did you bother to read my post?

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
Yes, I did read your post. What you describe sounds like an Optimum WiFi hotspot, and has nothing to do with his LAN. It is designed for general OOL customers to have WiFi while visiting his business. It is NOT for his business to connect to his LAN. (Although he could use it in the same manner as he would use any general Optimum WiFi hotspot.)

To answer your question, "Is this how OOL does wireless????"... The answer is NO; This is how OOL does Optimum WiFi indoor hotspots for use by all OOL customers with wireless devices.

TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA
kudos:3
reply to dsldan
Let's start again.

What people are saying is that the new Modem and Wi-Fi does not seem to be for the LAN but is intended to be a Wi-Fi hot spot outside the LAN for customers and other OOL subscribers not for use by the Business owner for his LAN.

It will not use the cap for the other Modem and streaming netflix should not slow anything on the other Modem or LAN or use any of the bandwidth cap for the other modem. It seems to have been located in the wrong spot in that it is interfering with the present wireless signal. It would not have been installed without the Business owners permission but they might not have understood what they requested or what was suggested to them.
--
Warning, If you post nonsense and use misinformation and are here to argue based on those methods, you will be put on ignore.


SHoTTa35

@optonline.net
reply to dsldan
As others have said it's simply the "optimumwifi" SSID that you see while walking around town. That's all that's there for and doesn't use any of your bandwidth.

Businesses can have them installed so guests can browse the web while in the lobby or something to take the load off corporate WIFI but looks like they just installed it in a bad location (or you should just change your channel).

The Cisco AP is not for your LAN and doesn't connect to it in any way at all. If you want to print wirelessly or be connected to your network you would obviously NOT use "optimumwifi" as your connection.

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
reply to TheWiseGuy
said by TheWiseGuy:

Let's start again.

Agreed. We're giving the moderator a workout.

said by TheWiseGuy:

What people are saying is that the new Modem and Wi-Fi does not seem to be for the LAN but is intended to be a Wi-Fi hot spot outside the LAN for customers and other OOL subscribers not for use by the Business owner for his LAN.

Ok. Question. What right does any telecommunications provider have to come into a subscriber's private premises and install equipment that is not for the sole benefit of that subscriber? I understand an easement where the cable and phone companies can run lines across your property outdoors... But using the customer's premises and electric for something that isn't for the sole benefit of the customer? They should pay rent or compensate the owner.

said by TheWiseGuy:

It will not use the cap for the other Modem and streaming netflix should not slow anything on the other Modem or LAN or use any of the bandwidth cap for the other modem.

I'm confused. How can this be? What, is cable some kind of magical network where you can use unlimited bandwidth?

said by TheWiseGuy:

It seems to have been located in the wrong spot in that it is interfering with the present wireless signal. It would not have been installed without the Business owners permission but they might not have understood what they requested or what was suggested to them.

Well I have it on good authority that they just showed up unannounced without asking.

TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA
kudos:3
said by dsldan:

Ok. Question. What right does any telecommunications provider have to come into a subscriber's private premises and install equipment that is not for the sole benefit of that subscriber? I understand an easement where the cable and phone companies can run lines across your property outdoors... But using the customer's premises and electric for something that isn't for the sole benefit of the customer? They should pay rent or compensate the owner.

None, without the owners's permission.

said by dsldan:

said by TheWiseGuy:

It will not use the cap for the other Modem and streaming netflix should not slow anything on the other Modem or LAN or use any of the bandwidth cap for the other modem.

I'm confused. How can this be? What, is cable some kind of magical network where you can use unlimited bandwidth?

Each Modem has a cap, wireless has a cap of 20mbps but the pipe can have a lot higher cap, say 8 channels at 38mbps or around 300mbps so while if utilization of all the channels was high it could have an effect but the number of channels can be increased with each modem using a separate set of channels, so under normal circumstances streaming netflix on the Hot Spot would be like any other of the many subscribers streaming netflix on their modem.

said by dsldan:

said by TheWiseGuy:

It seems to have been located in the wrong spot in that it is interfering with the present wireless signal. It would not have been installed without the Business owners permission but they might not have understood what they requested or what was suggested to them.

Well I have it on good authority that they just showed up unannounced without asking.

As I say it would not have been done unless CV thought that they had permission but misunderstandings occur all the time.
--
Warning, If you post nonsense and use misinformation and are here to argue based on those methods, you will be put on ignore.


limegrass69
Here's my Posting tag

join:2008-05-28
reply to dsldan
Perhaps there's something in the subscriber agreement the business owner signed that gave Cablevision permission to put in an Optimum hotspot at their discretion.

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
reply to TheWiseGuy
Thank you for your reply.

I still want to load the autonomous version of IOS onto the AP, give it their own SSID and passphrase, cable it to the LAN, and place it where it should have been put to cover a weak signal area.

I'd like to do it with OOL's permission, but I don't think that's going to stop me.

TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA
kudos:3
I would be very careful with this, since it has it own cap, ie using 2 modems allows for use of more bandwidth, and you would be tampering with Cablevision equipment, it could be interpreted as theft of service. Doing it without CV permission, which would not be given, is not something I would recommend. I suggest you simply have it removed.
--
Warning, If you post nonsense and use misinformation and are here to argue based on those methods, you will be put on ignore.

xirian
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY
kudos:1
reply to dsldan
You are missing the point. The access point is not yours, it is optimum's. They installed it the way they did because it isn't for you to use on your own lan. Most likely your boss misunderstood when he talked to a rep. You can call them and have them remove it, but tinkering with it would not be a good idea besides moving it away from your access point.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to dsldan
said by dsldan:

I still want to load the autonomous version of IOS onto the AP, give it their own SSID and passphrase, cable it to the LAN, and place it where it should have been put to cover a weak signal area.

I'd like to do it with OOL's permission, but I don't think that's going to stop me.

It's not your equipment. You didn't pay for it. If allowing your customers to have access to Optimum WiFi infuriates you so much (why do you hate your customers?), call Cablevision and tell them to take it out.


SHoTTa35

@optonline.net
reply to dsldan
You cannot change anything on those Cisco devices as they are locked down and managed by Cablevision. We have Cisco 851s here for use with our static services and there's 0 access to them.

Either way, you either forget about them being there or call to get them removed. Those are your only options.

TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA
kudos:3
reply to limegrass69
said by limegrass69:

Perhaps there's something in the subscriber agreement the business owner signed that gave Cablevision permission to put in an Optimum hotspot at their discretion.

I doubt it is a standard part of the agreement but it would not surprise me if a sales person might ask if the Business Subscriber wants a Wireless Hotspot on premise and that a new user might not realize exactly what was being discussed. For many businesses there is good value in being able to offer access to OOL subscriber on their premises since someone looking to use a business/service might check the OOL map to see where they could use the Internet.
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Warning, If you post nonsense and use misinformation and are here to argue based on those methods, you will be put on ignore.

majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY
kudos:1
reply to dsldan
The optimum wifi hotspot is not for business use its so cablevision customers can get internet access.

Is this business a cafe or restaurant or something?

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
No. It's an office. The public has as much right to use the wireless as they would to just walk in off the street and use the copier. And no, the owner is not my boss. Everyone seems to get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to limegrass69
said by limegrass69:

Perhaps there's something in the subscriber agreement the business owner signed that gave Cablevision permission to put in an Optimum hotspot at their discretion.

This.

xirian
Premium
join:2003-01-26
Beacon, NY
kudos:1
reply to dsldan
said by dsldan:

And no, the owner is not my boss. Everyone seems to get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

No, you're just splitting hairs trying to find someone to validate that you should try and use it for your own use. If you never have any outsiders in the office who might benefit from it then have them remove it.

TheWiseGuy
Dog And Butterfly
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-04
East Stroudsburg, PA
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to dsldan
said by dsldan:

Everyone seems to get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

Nope. Cablevision has a vast number of Business installations. Most do not have OOL hotspots installed. What people are trying to figure out is why an install occurred at this location since Cablevision does not simply go into someplace without the owners permission and install Hotspots, yet you claim it happened here, so we are politely trying to figure why it could have occurred and politely not just saying you are full of __.
--
Warning, If you post nonsense and use misinformation and are here to argue based on those methods, you will be put on ignore.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to dsldan
Click for full size
Here's an example of an indoor hotspot. All those blue icons are where Cablevision has installed indoor hotspots for their use of their customers.

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
reply to TheWiseGuy
Well put.

Well I'll grant you they didn't break in at gunpoint.

Like I said, the owner was not there. The staff, seeing the installer was not wearing a goalie mask or carrying a chain saw, let him go about his business. Whether CV actually explained what they were up to is highly doubtful. I would not call that informed consent. The owner was sure as hell surprised when he got back, especially when he learned his WiFi network was down due to the interference.

frdrizzt

join:2008-05-03
Ronkonkoma, NY
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
reply to dsldan
Please just save everyone at that place the trouble and call 866-575-8000 and ask the sales group to have someone remove the indoor wifi hotspot.

I know last year there was a campaign where OOL had people calling business accounts asking about installing indoor optimum wifi hotspots (though they were supposed to just be things like restaurants, doctors offices, or other offices that would see a high volume of people going in - unlike, say, a warehouse). They looked at a combination of location (if there's a hotspot right outside, they don't need it) and benefit to the business (something to offer their customers).

Since it does not seem to offer the business a benefit for their customers, and it is hurting their internal wifi, it should just be removed.

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
Amen. Well said.

dsldan

join:2001-11-06
Forest Hills, NY
reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

said by limegrass69:

Perhaps there's something in the subscriber agreement the business owner signed that gave Cablevision permission to put in an Optimum hotspot at their discretion.

This.

What?

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
I highly doubt that Cablevision came in and installed this equipment without permission. Now maybe someone didn't understand exactly what it was they were agreeing to (bad grammar, I know), but someone agreed to allow Cablevision to install the equipment.


blohner

join:2002-06-26
Cortlandt Manor, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Google Voice
·Optimum Online
reply to dsldan
A friend of mine (business customer) was asked if he would like a WiFi Hotspot while ordering his service... He agreed and about 2 month after he got BOOL he got the hotspot installed... I suspect very much this is what happened here and the Account Holder didn't realize what they where signing up for (probably 50% fault of sales person and 50% fault of account owner)...
The simply solution - if the AO doesn't want it - is to call CV and get it removed.... No harm done...
I would actually question a business for letting someone on premises to install a Hotspot without a work-order signed by purchasing, infrastructure, or the COO/CIO offices - but that's a different conversation...
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I am addicted to speed --- Boost + speed that is ---