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whizkid3
MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

whizkid3 to Mr Matt

MVM

to Mr Matt

Re: GFI outlet/refrigerator question

said by Mr Matt:

The insurance industry is out of control

I agree with that. However, I am sure you have absolutely no data nor any reason to infer that the 'insurance industry' is making such changes to the electrical code; aside from pure speculation on your part. One can check out the proceedings on code changes all they want - they are public and I believe they are on-line. Please research and post your evidence in a new thread. Debating whether the insurance industry has undue influence in electrical code requirements is far off-topic, IMHO.

Having GFCI receptacles in garages has been in the national electric code since at least 1999. (I just checked my 1999 edition.) Its not anything new. GFCI receptacles in wet and damp places are meant to save lives and they clearly do. If one is concerned about losing the contents of some old fridge in the garage; they can easily connect plug a power failure alarm into the receptacle.

The OP has taken the cheap and easy way out and chosen to violate the law; which according to his post, he has done. While building & fire codes are not felonies; they are indeed laws. God forbid someone gets killed - it will be on his conscience if not his wallet as well. That the refrigerator has clearly shown have a faulty electrical system, and the OP feels there is nothing wrong with it, is dangerous. He's putting himself and family/friends at risk. But at least he saved money.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by whizkid3:

said by Mr Matt:

The insurance industry is out of control

I agree with that. However,I am sure you have absolutely no data nor any reason to infer that the 'insurance industry' is making such changes to the electrical code; aside from pure speculation on your part.

Having GFCI receptacles in garages has been in the national electric code since at least 1999. (I just checked my 1999 edition.) Its not anything new. GFCI receptacles in wet and damp places are meant to save lives and they clearly do. If one is concerned about losing the contents of some old fridge in the garage; they can easily connect plug a power failure alarm into the receptacle.

The OP has taken the cheap and easy way out and chosen to violate the law; which according to his post, he has done. While building & fire codes are not felonies; they are indeed laws. God forbid someone gets killed - it will be on his conscience if not his wallet as well. That the refrigerator has clearly shown have a faulty electrical system, and the OP feels there is nothing wrong with it, is dangerous. He's putting himself and family/friends at risk. But at least he saved money.

You chide Mr Matt poster about data and you make a statement that GFCI's save lives but give no data or numbers so I assume it's conjecture on your part.

whizkid3
MVM
join:2002-02-21
Queens, NY

whizkid3

MVM

said by Jack_in_VA:

You chide Mr Matt poster about data and you make a statement that GFCI's save lives but give no data or numbers so I assume it's conjecture on your part.

I know of someone personally who would still be alive if the circuit that electrocuted them were on a GFCI. I have also seen the statistics; they are available on line; I am not going to look them up. Matt can believe my conjecture or not. I really don't care.

alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC

alkizmo to Jack_in_VA

Member

to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

You chide Mr Matt poster about data and you make a statement that GFCI's save lives but give no data or numbers so I assume it's conjecture on your part.

Considering the price of a GFCI receptacle and the fact that such receptacle can protect several other receptacles downstream, I don't see the downside. In this thread, several people including myself admitted getting shocked through a receptacle in the past. We didn't die, but we could have died. A GFCI receptacle makes sure we COULDN'T have died instead of COULD have died.

GFCI's can be inconvenient but they are not tripping falsely, and it's not like the code forces us to plug our fridges in it. There's even an exception in the CEC about not needing a GFCI (Where a GFCI would normally be required) if it is serving and located behind a large non portable appliance (Fridge, freezer, whatever). It's not the case in the NEC, but there probably was a reason why they changed it, and I doubt it's because of corruption or laziness.

Yahtzee simply put a fridge where a fridge isn't normally located. A garage is a great location for a 2nd fridge or freezer, I admit that. I will myself place a freezer in my garage. However I am partitioning my garage so that the freezer will actually no longer be in what is considered a "garage".

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro

Premium Member

said by alkizmo:

A GFCI receptacle makes sure we COULDN'T have died instead of COULD have died.

There is no "making sure". GFCI outlets are subject to failure - and they *DO* fail.
said by alkizmo:

GFCI's can be inconvenient but they are not tripping falsely,

Yes, they are sometimes. I have one that I can trip on demand - even if no load is connected to it, just by switching on and of a fan few times (fan on the same circuit, but not controlled by the GFCI).
AVonGauss
Premium Member
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

AVonGauss

Premium Member

Is the fan in front of the GFCI or behind the GFCI outlet in the circuit?

cowboyro
Premium Member
join:2000-10-11
CT

cowboyro

Premium Member

said by AVonGauss:

Is the fan in front of the GFCI or behind the GFCI outlet in the circuit?

Before. That GFCI is at the end of the branch.