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GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

RadioReference.com Change

I know there are a bunch of RadioReference.com folks here some of which are active on that site and wondered what your opinion was of the pending change/split of the site - see »forums.radioreference.com/commun···com.html

I can't imagine anyone that is either a paid radioreference.com subscriber or a feed provider would think is good for them, but interested in what you all think.
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

I have only used it occassionally and am not a major user. However, from reading through the thread, I have to agree with those that use their resources (internet connection, computer, scanner, etc.)to provide a feed that having to pay to now stream is stupid. Seems they want to split so they can double dip by charging for users to listen and charge for the incoming content they are going to make money off of.

Seems to me to be the current ISP vs. content provider mentality where the ISP wants to double dip.



Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA
reply to GeekNJ

I must say I will be reconsidering if I continue to provide my feeds.

The only "perk" (other than feeling a little important in my community for providing said feeds) is now being taken away.

The amount they are asking to pay isn't high, but that isn't the point if you have been a feed provider since the day they opened their site and service.

Oh well what can you do? I will miss my feeds though, and I know lots of others will to.
Heck the police dept. and news media here even use it regularly.
--
Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.



drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3
reply to GeekNJ

I don't stream, or listen to the streams, so this doesn't affect me directly.
I can understand why they want to split the site, and I'm neutral on charging for it. We all know it costs money to run these sites, but I think if you're a feed provider you should get a free or reduced cost subscription.
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.



GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
reply to GeekNJ

Looks like the site owner felt he answered all the questions he needed to answer and closed the thread.



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to GeekNJ

I am a Global Mod over there in the forums as well as a Database Administrator.

I have always wondered how he could afford the massive hosting costs associated with the live audio platform as the incredible costs were the reason that it was agreed that he would take over Scanamerica.com

As far as those who are screaming about the only perk being taken away, it wasn't that long ago that there was no live audio platform and people were stuck paying the $2.50 PER MONTH to have the ability to program their scanner by directly downloading the data from radioreference.com

The database will still be free as it always has been, and the streaming audio will still be free. Not only that, but the free version of the live audio will include way more than even the paid service provides now.

If anyone has any wuestions I will do my best to answer them (unofficially of course).
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!



Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA

Maybe I have been reading it wrong on their forum. I feel a little dumb here so I must ask since you Mod over there.

I have not had to do this yet, but soon our area will be doing the narrow band thing, and some depts. quite possibly will be going digital, which means I would have to purchase another scanner.

If I have to get another scanner, I understand at present I can get downloads for the scanner from the site free for now since I provide a feed.
But after the change I will no longer get this free as a provider?
Is that correct? Or am i misreading it.

Thanks
--
Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1

said by Robotics:

Maybe I have been reading it wrong on their forum. I feel a little dumb here so I must ask since you Mod over there.

I have not had to do this yet, but soon our area will be doing the narrow band thing, and some depts. quite possibly will be going digital, which means I would have to purchase another scanner.

If I have to get another scanner, I understand at present I can get downloads for the scanner from the site free for now since I provide a feed.
But after the change I will no longer get this free as a provider?
Is that correct? Or am i misreading it.

Thanks

The biggest part of a Paid Premium subscription is that your programming software can reach out to RR, and download all the information that you select.

Without the paid premium subscription (or free premium for current feed providers), you still have access to the database, nothing is hidden from you, but you would have to enter all of the information into your software or your scanner manually.

If you have the data saved already, you may still be able to export it from your current software and import it into your new... You would not need a premium subscription for this.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
reply to burner50

From what I would personally think as well as what those that seemed to voice their displeasure in the thread before it was closed, the perk associated with providing a feed in the new model/site isn't anything the feed providers are looking for. They were enjoying the perk of the premium sub on radioreference.com associated with the database.

As someone else pointed out, it's referenced as $2.50/mo but it's more accurately $30/yr since you aren't paying month/month. So though the site owner is touting the new "perk" as an $83.40 perk, if you don't want anything the perk offers it's useless. So the folks that did want the current perk are now out $30/yr.

Is $30/yr a lot if it's an important hobby to you - no. But I dropped my $30/yr geocaching.com sub and others such as my XM radio in 2 car subscription, multiple magazine subs, etc because in the end, I was spending hundreds/thousands a year on subs. At some point, enough monthly fees is enough and people make a choice. I happily paid my QRZ.com annual subscription as it's a primary hobby and the value I get is tremendous. I'm sure many will feel the same about radioreference.com if that's a primary hobby, but I think there will be some fallout.

I posted this in the thread but the site owner never responded:

Current cost of site access to RR features for current feed providers: [$0]
Future cost of site access to RR + BCify for current feed providers: [$30]

Current cost of site access to features for RR paid subscribers: [$30]
Future cost of site access to features to RR + BCify for current RR paid subscribers: [$113.40]

If that's filled out, I imagine the expense will be obvious. I could be wrong, but I filled it out with what I think the answer is.
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to GeekNJ

I do know that before RadioReference took over Scanamerica, The site was run from the owner's home... Now it takes a giant cloud account with AWS that costs over $10,000/mo.

The streaming platform was about to go under when Radioreference took it over, and that is when it was just a few hundred feeds... Now there is a few thousand feeds and anytime there is a major incident, there is tens of thousands of connections every minute... It is very expensive.

I don't know that the reasoning is the cost, I found out about it from this thread myself, but I can see it being a major contributor. I wonder if he is looking to sell the live audio platform off... The leg work would all be done now.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


mr weather
Premium
join:2002-02-27
Mississauga, ON
reply to GeekNJ

It's Lindsay's sandbox. He can do what he wants.
--
"It's all coming down!!" - Mike Holmes



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to burner50

I think some of these complaints are funny.

Did you really spend $500 on a digital scanner and hook it up to a $300 computer to save $30/yr?

I doubt it.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!



guhuna
5149.5
Premium
join:2001-03-31
Clayton, CA

EDIT : found my answer on RR's site.



GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
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reply to mr weather

said by mr weather:

It's Lindsay's sandbox. He can do what he wants.

Of course he can and I posted that at the start of the thread.


GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
reply to burner50

said by burner50:

Did you really spend $500 on a digital scanner and hook it up to a $300 computer to save $30/yr?

Because I spend $1500+ on a transceiver doesn't mean the radio I run as an APRS gateway is $1500 when any 2m unit would do. And it's hooked up to an existing computer, not a top end computer purchased and dedicated to APRS.

I considered adding a spare (inexpensive) scanner that would broadcast my local repeater so I could listen while at work and was at my desk. It would be connected to an existing desktop that is always running. No additional cost to me.

I wouldn't pay the $30/yr because of reasons I outlined above. With a mortgage, a $3800/mo college payment for 1 daughter and another daughter starting college next year, expenses of any kind are considered. The perk of the rr db would have been nice while the new perks are completely meaningless to me and it seems the others that were disappointed in the thread.
--
Tweaked your connection? | Mail Parse | Speed Converter

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

2 edits
reply to GeekNJ

As a feed provider the change really does not bother me, I can't say I ever used any of the "premium perks" or really even know what they are.

You know it really costs nothing besides the electricity to host your own feed and it's not that hard to do. I hosted my own feeds and website for years before providing my feed to RR and still do.

The only reason I started providing a feed to RR is I had listeners request it because the smart phone scanner apps pull their feeds from RR.

I think the new name "Broadcastify" is dorky, they are trying to hop on the "ify" popularity of service like Spotify.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/



Zack

@katzmidas.com
reply to burner50

I'm a feed provider and I'm with everybody else that voiced their displeasure to the change. I'm going to be shutting my feeds down also, which means "Broadcastify" will lose their "inventory". Can't really sell "inventory if it's not there"

I don't listen to other feeds. I enjoy the ability to download right into my other scanners as a premium service. That's why I host a feed - for the ease of use of Radio Reference to quickly update my scanners.

People post frequencies, and other content that drive the site for pure pleasure. It's a smybiotic relationship. The fact that he closed the thread shows exactly the problem - and he knows he made a mistake. If the feed costs are the issue, then shutdown the site and somebody else will take over (which I'm sure somebody else will anyway).

I'm upset, but life will go on and I save my bandwidth, get a couple scanners freed up, get a computer freed up, and save some monthly cash by not paying either of his sites.



Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA

Yeah him closing that thread hit me the wrong way. He also didn't answer to my point/question.

But closing it to end all discussion of the subject he started in the first place made me flash back to the days I used to visit QRZ. But as soon (and it didn't take long) as I realized the attitude of the owner of QRZ and his bozo buddies, I got out.

And more OT...Ham radio and operators just isn't the same as I remember it many years ago.
--
Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.



ropeguru
Premium
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA
reply to GeekNJ

The way he is going about this seems backwards to me. Wouldn't you normally give you providers the "perks" to supply you with content and then charge a little to the consumers? I do not know of too many people that want to PAY to deliver content.

If this really does work, then someone should trick the media broadcasters (ABC, NBC, etc..) into doing this. That way we could all get our cable for free and they could pay Comcast, Time Warner, etc. to distribute it.



Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to GeekNJ

I just read that thread and I am a bit perturbed. He seems to be pissing off a lot of people with his reply's. Without those members providing feeds and updating the DB he has NOTHING more than a forum. Ultimately I personally think he is spinning off the feeds as a separate entity to sell down the very near road.
--
Professional student pilot!


b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

3 edits
reply to ropeguru

said by ropeguru:

The way he is going about this seems backwards to me. Wouldn't you normally give you providers the "perks" to supply you with content and then charge a little to the consumers? I do not know of too many people that want to PAY to deliver content.

I guess I do not understand the fuss. I asked this morning over at RR and was told feed providers do not have to pay for providing a feed.

Seems to me a hand full of feed providers are doing so just to get the premium membership to RR. Maybe that is the wrong reason to be a feed provider?

I know we like to pretend that providing a scanner feed is some great technological feat requiring vast amounts of time and effort, not to mention computer and radio knowledge... But really it's a no brainier and if you use the free tools they provide like Scannercast it's pretty much plug, point, click and you're a feed provider.

So I believe all these feed providers that think they are going to hurt RR/Broadcastify by leaving will be replaced by someone that will provide a feed just to provide a feed. That's how I got started even before I knew about RR someone locally was hosting their own feed. They moved away and of course shutdown the feed. I decided that I would fill that void myself.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru

said by ropeguru:

The way he is going about this seems backwards to me. Wouldn't you normally give you providers the "perks" to supply you with content and then charge a little to the consumers? I do not know of too many people that want to PAY to deliver content.

If this really does work, then someone should trick the media broadcasters (ABC, NBC, etc..) into doing this. That way we could all get our cable for free and they could pay Comcast, Time Warner, etc. to distribute it.

I don't think you understand how this will work.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to GeekNJ

I haven't been to that site in like 3-4 years.. not sure why..


b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

said by Subaru:

I haven't been to that site in like 3-4 years.. not sure why..

Well really unless you are looking for scanner frequencies or listening to scanner feeds, there is no reason to go to that site.

Personally I never figured out what they had that was worth paying for to begin with. Everything I ever needed from RR in terms of frequencies or information was always free.

I have been told by a friend that is very into scanning, frequency hunting. He and a group of RR old-timers had a falling out with the owner of RR and started Intercept Radio. He claims their database is more up to date, accurate, and complete »www.interceptradio.com/

I was "broadcasting" my feed online for years before I was a feed provider at RR. In fact I only became a RR feed provider because I had listeners asking me to join RR because all the smartphone scanner apps get their feeds from RR.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

well I still have a scanner but I haven't been active with it in some time since most places are all digital which requires a $500+ scanner now.



Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to b10010011

said by b10010011:

He claims their database is more up to date, accurate, and complete »www.interceptradio.com/

Not sure about other areas but my area is a joke there isn't hardly anything.
--
Professional student pilot!


burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to b10010011

said by b10010011:

said by Subaru:

I haven't been to that site in like 3-4 years.. not sure why..

Well really unless you are looking for scanner frequencies or listening to scanner feeds, there is no reason to go to that site.

Personally I never figured out what they had that was worth paying for to begin with. Everything I ever needed from RR in terms of frequencies or information was always free.

I have been told by a friend that is very into scanning, frequency hunting. He and a group of RR old-timers had a falling out with the owner of RR and started Intercept Radio. He claims their database is more up to date, accurate, and complete »www.interceptradio.com/

I was "broadcasting" my feed online for years before I was a feed provider at RR. In fact I only became a RR feed provider because I had listeners asking me to join RR because all the smartphone scanner apps get their feeds from RR.

Interceptradio is a funny group.

Their beef with radioreference is that Lindsay has turned it into a business.

I've had run ins with their site owners before. Last time, they created an account on their forums with my regular screen name and post a bunch of stuff insinuating that I was a homosexual... News to me and my wife

They are a group from the pacific northwest and it is my own opinion that they're polluting their database with FCC Dumps, which is the reason that I don't like using them... Not to mention, I think the tools they have are lackluster at best.

At the end of the day, Radioreference.com is going to be just the same as it was before they acquired Gordon Edwards' site scanamerica.us for the most part... Premium members will not see ads like they did back before Radioreference took over Scanamerica.

When people fed to scanamerica, they didn't have a free premium membership to radioreference, nor did they have the tools and additional platforms that they did after Radioreference took over.

I used to work in Customer Service, and in my current job, I am in a union. One thing that I have learned is that there is two things that people don't like

1.) The way things are
-AND-
2.) When things change
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


va176thunder

join:2001-09-14
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

1 recommendation

reply to GeekNJ

I realize it's his site, and that he's exercising his right to do with it what he sees fit - but I am surprised that a site built of the contributions of many didn't ask for their input about the new site, the features that would be made available to them and any compenstation provided in return.

People are motivated to create feeds for different reasons, and the cost to each varies substantially (some had stuff laying around, so the cost was minimal - others invested specifically for the feed, so the cost was a lot more for them). Regardless, the cost to build the feed was carried by them.

I see the disconnect as this: the feed providers saw this as a "trust relationship" and were provided some "rewards", and the site owner saw it strictly as a "business relationship" with business costs.

I was working my way towards establishing multiple feeds (upgrading/building/configuring equipment to dedicate to the effort), but as a "hobbyist (kind of under that concept of a trust relationship)". Under the new "terms", but more improtantly, how it was handled - I'm no longer motivated to commit my equipment/connection for someone else's business gain.
--
and the hits just keep on coming.........



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1

1 edit

said by va176thunder:

I realize it's his site, and that he's exercising his right to do with it what he sees fit - but I am surprised that a site built of the contributions of many didn't ask for their input about the new site, the features that would be made available to them and any compenstation provided in return.

The site was built by the database and the forums... Live audio is a relatively recent, and very expensive addition.

said by va176thunder:

People are motivated to create feeds for different reasons, and the cost to each varies substantially (some had stuff laying around, so the cost was minimal - others invested specifically for the feed, so the cost was a lot more for them). Regardless, the cost to build the feed was carried by them.

It is true that the feed provider has to provide the scanner, computer, and internet connection... But Lindsay / Radioreference.com is the one who brings the feeds to thousands of listeners and provides the back end capability to allow for archiving and incredible surges of listeners. Before Radioreference.com took over Scanamerica.us, Lindsay was able to run the site entirely from his house. All of the back end servers were in his office. Now the site requires a gigantic hosting package from AmazonAWS that costs upwards of $12,000 per MONTH... Not to mention the hours upon hours he spent working on the integration that exists now and the systems set up to record and break up the archives into easily digestible chunks. It is not as if Lindsay just flipped a switch and the feed providers are doing all of the heavy lifting. After Radioreference.com took over, the first major incident looked like a massive DDOS attack on the site, when in fact there was thousands of connections every SECOND... your residential internet won't survive that, nor is it very likely that your ISP will tolerate it.

said by va176thunder:

I see the disconnect as this: the feed providers saw this as a "trust relationship" and were provided some "rewards", and the site owner saw it strictly as a "business relationship" with business costs.

The fact of the matter is that Radioreference.com has always been run by volunteers. Lindsay managed to turn it into a business, and it is the only "job" he has. It is now his career and his path to financial security... But the fact of the matter is that it is a business, and he needs to do what is required to grow his business. He had stated in the announcement that Broadcastify.com was being split off for potential sale in the future.

said by va176thunder:

I was working my way towards establishing multiple feeds (upgrading/building/configuring equipment to dedicate to the effort), but as a "hobbyist (kind of under that concept of a trust relationship)". Under the new "terms", but more improtantly, how it was handled - I'm no longer motivated to commit my equipment/connection for someone else's business gain.

In the end, that choice has always been up to the feed provider. Either feed to Radioreference, or don't. What I find funny is that a number of people who are throwing the biggest tantrum were faithful subscribers of Radioreference, AND provided feeds to Scanamerica.us... The complained endlessly that Radioreference.com was taking over. Now they're complaining Radioreference is splitting off the live audio...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3

I've never gotten into providing feeds, but I sure use the site a LOT to keep my Unidens up to date with my Butel software.
I think the amount I pay for my premium account is money well spent.
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.