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b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

3 edits
reply to ropeguru

Re: RadioReference.com Change

said by ropeguru:

The way he is going about this seems backwards to me. Wouldn't you normally give you providers the "perks" to supply you with content and then charge a little to the consumers? I do not know of too many people that want to PAY to deliver content.

I guess I do not understand the fuss. I asked this morning over at RR and was told feed providers do not have to pay for providing a feed.

Seems to me a hand full of feed providers are doing so just to get the premium membership to RR. Maybe that is the wrong reason to be a feed provider?

I know we like to pretend that providing a scanner feed is some great technological feat requiring vast amounts of time and effort, not to mention computer and radio knowledge... But really it's a no brainier and if you use the free tools they provide like Scannercast it's pretty much plug, point, click and you're a feed provider.

So I believe all these feed providers that think they are going to hurt RR/Broadcastify by leaving will be replaced by someone that will provide a feed just to provide a feed. That's how I got started even before I knew about RR someone locally was hosting their own feed. They moved away and of course shutdown the feed. I decided that I would fill that void myself.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to ropeguru

said by ropeguru:

The way he is going about this seems backwards to me. Wouldn't you normally give you providers the "perks" to supply you with content and then charge a little to the consumers? I do not know of too many people that want to PAY to deliver content.

If this really does work, then someone should trick the media broadcasters (ABC, NBC, etc..) into doing this. That way we could all get our cable for free and they could pay Comcast, Time Warner, etc. to distribute it.

I don't think you understand how this will work.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1
reply to GeekNJ

I haven't been to that site in like 3-4 years.. not sure why..


b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

said by Subaru:

I haven't been to that site in like 3-4 years.. not sure why..

Well really unless you are looking for scanner frequencies or listening to scanner feeds, there is no reason to go to that site.

Personally I never figured out what they had that was worth paying for to begin with. Everything I ever needed from RR in terms of frequencies or information was always free.

I have been told by a friend that is very into scanning, frequency hunting. He and a group of RR old-timers had a falling out with the owner of RR and started Intercept Radio. He claims their database is more up to date, accurate, and complete »www.interceptradio.com/

I was "broadcasting" my feed online for years before I was a feed provider at RR. In fact I only became a RR feed provider because I had listeners asking me to join RR because all the smartphone scanner apps get their feeds from RR.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
kudos:1

well I still have a scanner but I haven't been active with it in some time since most places are all digital which requires a $500+ scanner now.



Bruschi
Premium
join:2001-04-16
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to b10010011

said by b10010011:

He claims their database is more up to date, accurate, and complete »www.interceptradio.com/

Not sure about other areas but my area is a joke there isn't hardly anything.
--
Professional student pilot!


burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to b10010011

said by b10010011:

said by Subaru:

I haven't been to that site in like 3-4 years.. not sure why..

Well really unless you are looking for scanner frequencies or listening to scanner feeds, there is no reason to go to that site.

Personally I never figured out what they had that was worth paying for to begin with. Everything I ever needed from RR in terms of frequencies or information was always free.

I have been told by a friend that is very into scanning, frequency hunting. He and a group of RR old-timers had a falling out with the owner of RR and started Intercept Radio. He claims their database is more up to date, accurate, and complete »www.interceptradio.com/

I was "broadcasting" my feed online for years before I was a feed provider at RR. In fact I only became a RR feed provider because I had listeners asking me to join RR because all the smartphone scanner apps get their feeds from RR.

Interceptradio is a funny group.

Their beef with radioreference is that Lindsay has turned it into a business.

I've had run ins with their site owners before. Last time, they created an account on their forums with my regular screen name and post a bunch of stuff insinuating that I was a homosexual... News to me and my wife

They are a group from the pacific northwest and it is my own opinion that they're polluting their database with FCC Dumps, which is the reason that I don't like using them... Not to mention, I think the tools they have are lackluster at best.

At the end of the day, Radioreference.com is going to be just the same as it was before they acquired Gordon Edwards' site scanamerica.us for the most part... Premium members will not see ads like they did back before Radioreference took over Scanamerica.

When people fed to scanamerica, they didn't have a free premium membership to radioreference, nor did they have the tools and additional platforms that they did after Radioreference took over.

I used to work in Customer Service, and in my current job, I am in a union. One thing that I have learned is that there is two things that people don't like

1.) The way things are
-AND-
2.) When things change
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


va176thunder

join:2001-09-14
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

1 recommendation

reply to GeekNJ

I realize it's his site, and that he's exercising his right to do with it what he sees fit - but I am surprised that a site built of the contributions of many didn't ask for their input about the new site, the features that would be made available to them and any compenstation provided in return.

People are motivated to create feeds for different reasons, and the cost to each varies substantially (some had stuff laying around, so the cost was minimal - others invested specifically for the feed, so the cost was a lot more for them). Regardless, the cost to build the feed was carried by them.

I see the disconnect as this: the feed providers saw this as a "trust relationship" and were provided some "rewards", and the site owner saw it strictly as a "business relationship" with business costs.

I was working my way towards establishing multiple feeds (upgrading/building/configuring equipment to dedicate to the effort), but as a "hobbyist (kind of under that concept of a trust relationship)". Under the new "terms", but more improtantly, how it was handled - I'm no longer motivated to commit my equipment/connection for someone else's business gain.
--
and the hits just keep on coming.........



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1

1 edit

said by va176thunder:

I realize it's his site, and that he's exercising his right to do with it what he sees fit - but I am surprised that a site built of the contributions of many didn't ask for their input about the new site, the features that would be made available to them and any compenstation provided in return.

The site was built by the database and the forums... Live audio is a relatively recent, and very expensive addition.

said by va176thunder:

People are motivated to create feeds for different reasons, and the cost to each varies substantially (some had stuff laying around, so the cost was minimal - others invested specifically for the feed, so the cost was a lot more for them). Regardless, the cost to build the feed was carried by them.

It is true that the feed provider has to provide the scanner, computer, and internet connection... But Lindsay / Radioreference.com is the one who brings the feeds to thousands of listeners and provides the back end capability to allow for archiving and incredible surges of listeners. Before Radioreference.com took over Scanamerica.us, Lindsay was able to run the site entirely from his house. All of the back end servers were in his office. Now the site requires a gigantic hosting package from AmazonAWS that costs upwards of $12,000 per MONTH... Not to mention the hours upon hours he spent working on the integration that exists now and the systems set up to record and break up the archives into easily digestible chunks. It is not as if Lindsay just flipped a switch and the feed providers are doing all of the heavy lifting. After Radioreference.com took over, the first major incident looked like a massive DDOS attack on the site, when in fact there was thousands of connections every SECOND... your residential internet won't survive that, nor is it very likely that your ISP will tolerate it.

said by va176thunder:

I see the disconnect as this: the feed providers saw this as a "trust relationship" and were provided some "rewards", and the site owner saw it strictly as a "business relationship" with business costs.

The fact of the matter is that Radioreference.com has always been run by volunteers. Lindsay managed to turn it into a business, and it is the only "job" he has. It is now his career and his path to financial security... But the fact of the matter is that it is a business, and he needs to do what is required to grow his business. He had stated in the announcement that Broadcastify.com was being split off for potential sale in the future.

said by va176thunder:

I was working my way towards establishing multiple feeds (upgrading/building/configuring equipment to dedicate to the effort), but as a "hobbyist (kind of under that concept of a trust relationship)". Under the new "terms", but more improtantly, how it was handled - I'm no longer motivated to commit my equipment/connection for someone else's business gain.

In the end, that choice has always been up to the feed provider. Either feed to Radioreference, or don't. What I find funny is that a number of people who are throwing the biggest tantrum were faithful subscribers of Radioreference, AND provided feeds to Scanamerica.us... The complained endlessly that Radioreference.com was taking over. Now they're complaining Radioreference is splitting off the live audio...

The more things change, the more they stay the same.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


drjim
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3

I've never gotten into providing feeds, but I sure use the site a LOT to keep my Unidens up to date with my Butel software.
I think the amount I pay for my premium account is money well spent.
--
One man's Magic is another man's Engineering.



va176thunder

join:2001-09-14
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to burner50

I wasn't a user of Scanamerica, nor have I ever provided a feed before - so I can't comment on that.

If this is such a drain on him, why he'd pick up Scanamerica and continue to provide it (feeds) at all?
--
and the hits just keep on coming.........



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1

said by va176thunder:

I wasn't a user of Scanamerica, nor have I ever provided a feed before - so I can't comment on that.

If this is such a drain on him, why he'd pick up Scanamerica and continue to provide it (feeds) at all?

When he took over Scanamerica, there was a couple hundred feeds with maybe a thousand listeners at any point in time...

Now there is something like 3,300 feeds and thousands of listeners at any point in time that spikes to tens of thousands of listeners during an event.

Lindsay is the sole owner of Radioreference LLC, and it is up to him to determine what is right for his business. The choice is clear, either continue to support the site, or do not... Pretty simple actually.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to Robotics

Did you ever notice that the very people that do this are the same ones that are usually the first to call someone else out for doing the same?
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

2 edits
reply to GeekNJ

assuming the site owner researched this:
i would look thoroughly into the legality of charging listeners to listen to public safety communications that are freely available to anyone in possession of a radio receiver.
although it may not be illegal, it just doesnt sound right to me.
in context:
i could purchase an FM radio and listen to my favorite station for free or i could visit their website and also listen for free.
it would be unusual for that FM station to charge listeners to listen to their content over the web when it can be accessed from the airwaves for free, provided the content on both distribution methods is the same.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata



GeekNJ
Premium
join:2000-09-23
Waldwick, NJ

I think listening to all live content would still be free. Archives and other aspects of it are what would require a paid subscription.



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to IllIlIlllIll

said by IllIlIlllIll:

assuming the site owner researched this:
i would look thoroughly into the legality of charging listeners to listen to public safety communications that are freely available to anyone in possession of a radio receiver.
although it may not be illegal, it just doesnt sound right to me.
in context:
i could purchase an FM radio and listen to my favorite station for free or i could visit their website and also listen for free.
it would be unusual for that FM station to charge listeners to listen to their content over the web when it can be accessed from the airwaves for free, provided the content on both distribution methods is the same.

Well, first off, nobody is talking about charging to listen to live feeds.

Second, there wouldn't be anything illegal about it...

You can get local television stations for free over the air, but your cable company charges you for access...
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

4 edits

sorry.
I'm not going to start a debate concerning the semantics about it.
ill stick to the context of my post.
since youre an admin of some sort on the site, youre aware of the details concerning the change and read it the same way I have.
perhaps you might understand and perceive it a little differently though than I do, but nevertheless, its my opinion as posted here that reflects and derives comments made by members @ RR & here.
there are other cost effective (even free) ways to relay a feed to a large mass on the web and on smartphones without incurring thousands of dollars in hosting costs.
a little research goes a long way.
if it was me, i would have changed the entire live feed structure, providing live feeds in a more economical sense.
in the end, all the listener cares about is listening.
they dont care how and where the feed comes from, how its branded or how proprietary it is.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1

said by IllIlIlllIll:

sorry.
I'm not going to start a debate concerning the semantics about it.
ill stick to the context of my post.
since youre an admin of some sort on the site, youre aware of the details concerning the change and read it the same way I have.
perhaps you might understand and perceive it a little differently though than I do, but nevertheless, its my opinion as posted here that reflects and derives comments made by members @ RR & here.
there are other cost effective (even free) ways to relay a feed to a large mass on the web and on smartphones without incurring thousands of dollars in hosting costs.
a little research goes a long way.
if it was me, i would have changed the entire live feed structure, providing live feeds in a more economical sense.
in the end, all the listener cares about is listening.
they dont care how and where the feed comes from, how its branded or how proprietary it is.

I wasn't arguing semantics... The live audio feeds have always been free, and there is not any plans that I am aware of to charge for them.

I am a Database Administrator and a Global Mod. I am not a part of the Live Audio team, and to be honest, I didn't know about Broadcastify until I read it in the forums. You are entitled to your opinion, but if you believe that the live feeds will now cost you money, I believe that you are basing your statements on bad information.

While there may be cost effective ways of providing audio to the masses, but that isn't all that RadioReference does, nor is it the main part of the site. There is also the Wiki, the extensive database, and the Forums with over 630,000 members (usually have 1,000-2,000 online at any point in time), and the extensive archives of every feed. And when a large event happens, we have been sacked with 10,000-20,000 connections per second... The only way to survive that is a fat pipe and many servers.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

i completely understand what the site owner is doing, its the way he words what his intentions are, at first glance, lots of people see it differently than what he means.
i do believe he could operate a very efficient cost effective streaming service though, its not hard to do especially being that public safety feeds are low bit rate & mono to begin with.
im positive listeners would have no issue dealing with having to listen to a 30 second advert prior to the start of the live feed, perhaps if flash was being used, the adverts would have more value since it would be both audio and video, there could also be clickable html adverts that are injected in 1/5th the area of the flash player every 15 minutes, that could be an idea as well.
additionally, there are those of us that can display the status of the scanner as video along with the audio in flash using screen capture tools, you can layer other images like the current time along with it.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata



burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1

said by IllIlIlllIll:

i completely understand what the site owner is doing, its the way he words what his intentions are, at first glance, lots of people see it differently than what he means.
i do believe he could operate a very efficient cost effective streaming service though, its not hard to do especially being that public safety feeds are low bit rate & mono to begin with.
im positive listeners would have no issue dealing with having to listen to a 30 second advert prior to the start of the live feed, perhaps if flash was being used, the adverts would have more value since it would be both audio and video, there could also be clickable html adverts that are injected in 1/5th the area of the flash player every 15 minutes, that could be an idea as well.
additionally, there are those of us that can display the status of the scanner as video along with the audio in flash using screen capture tools, you can layer other images like the current time along with it.

Those options for ads are very intrusive, especially considering that feed providers do not receive any incentive. The feed audio should NOT contain any ads in my opinion. I applaud the owner for not taking this course, instead bearing the brunt of the cost.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


Robotics
See You On The Dark Side
Premium
join:2003-10-23
Louisa, VA

said by burner50:

Those options for ads are very intrusive, especially considering that feed providers do not receive any incentive. The feed audio should NOT contain any ads in my opinion. I applaud the owner for not taking this course, instead bearing the brunt of the cost.

I strongly agree on that. It is very clean the way it is, and hope it stays that way. You don't see that to often on the web anymore.
--
Long you live and high you fly, and smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry,
and all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be.


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7
reply to burner50

said by burner50:

Those options for ads are very intrusive, especially considering that feed providers do not receive any incentive. The feed audio should NOT contain any ads in my opinion. I applaud the owner for not taking this course, instead bearing the brunt of the cost.

not really if the right type of placement is utilized, considering that most listeners are primarily listening anyway.
if the feed was using flash, the flash ad would only play one 15-30 second video ad the first time the player is fired and then no more after that.
the HTML injected ads within the player dont affect the sound but if there is video, it takes a very small portion of the bottom of the players screen area and if you play your cards right, you can position the video so the ads dont cover any portion of it, very little of the screen area is actually needed to display the current channel/freq/trunk/id stats.
there are no ads that interrupt the ongoing duration of the live content.
i have taken feedback and the general consensus is people dont mind the ads as long as it doest interfere with the ongoing live content.
but to each their own method i guess.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata


burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to GeekNJ

said by GeekNJ:

I know there are a bunch of RadioReference.com folks here some of which are active on that site and wondered what your opinion was of the pending change/split of the site - see »forums.radioreference.com/commun···com.html

I can't imagine anyone that is either a paid radioreference.com subscriber or a feed provider would think is good for them, but interested in what you all think.

There is HTML ads injected in the player, but that is pretty much the extent of it. Starting a feed with a 30 second ad is too intrusive in my opinion, and i think people's ire would be justified in that case.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..
reply to IllIlIlllIll

said by IllIlIlllIll:

not really if the right type of placement is utilized, considering that most listeners are primarily listening anyway.

Looking at my feed stats the majority of listeners are using smartphone apps. I really doubt they see any of the HTML ads or ads injected into the flash player.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

said by b10010011:

said by IllIlIlllIll:

not really if the right type of placement is utilized, considering that most listeners are primarily listening anyway.

Looking at my feed stats the majority of listeners are using smartphone apps. I really doubt they see any of the HTML ads or ads injected into the flash player.

not for a smartphone.
but for the web on a pc, yes.
what im using for my feed, you dont need an app, just a web browser, im also using a third party to host the feed for free additionally.
it streams to the user as RTSP up to 100Kbit or less, video & audio.
one stream to the host at up to 100Kbit, then the host takes over (repeats it) to the masses at the same bit rate.
the feed is supplied by a small netbook and a $179 scanner.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata

b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

said by IllIlIlllIll:

what im using for my feed, you dont need an app, just a web browser, im also using a third party to host the feed for free additionally.
the feed is supplied by a small netbook and a $179 scanner.

I am basically doing the same thing. I use Darkice to send my feeds to RR and I also run Icecast locally and host my feeds directly and host my website with Apache. Fact is the only reason I even stream to RR is after I had been running my site for a year or so a lot of listeners requested I get my feed listed on the scanner app they have on their smartphones.

I was using a Netbook (EeePC 900) for over a year but one long hot summer day it just gave up and died. I am currently using a dual core Atom Mini-ITX box I built for about $200. »secure.newegg.com/WishList/Publi···16673272 and my "Poorman's SSD" »forums.radioreference.com/live-a···t1629367

But I have also used 1Ghz thin clients, and started out running it on a decTOP (366Mhz Geode).

Right now I am attempting to get it all running on a Raspberry Pi.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


IllIlIlllIll
EliteData
Premium
join:2003-07-06
Hampton Bays, NY
kudos:7

here is my site that i put together myself thats been in operation since 2003.
scpdny.com
it automatically redirects you to the proper type page formatted for the specific smartphone you have.
the only operational cost with this live feed not including the cost of internet and electric, is the domain and host, together at about $58 yearly.
the google advert more than makes up the yearly operating cost as well as a sponsor, which the left over proceeds from those after paying for the yearly operational costs, get donated to the individual who volunteered to host my scanner, antenna and netbook as its not at my location.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata


b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

said by IllIlIlllIll:

here is my site that i put together myself thats been in operation since 2003. scpdny.com
it automatically redirects you to the proper type page formatted for the specific smartphone you have.

That's cool, you must have smarter listeners then I do because the main complaint I had was smartphone users complaining about having to open their browser to access my feeds when they have a free scanner app that has hundreds of feeds in it.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/


burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to IllIlIlllIll

said by IllIlIlllIll:

here is my site that i put together myself thats been in operation since 2003.
scpdny.com
it automatically redirects you to the proper type page formatted for the specific smartphone you have.
the only operational cost with this live feed not including the cost of internet and electric, is the domain and host, together at about $58 yearly.
the google advert more than makes up the yearly operating cost as well as a sponsor, which the left over proceeds from those after paying for the yearly operational costs, get donated to the individual who volunteered to host my scanner, antenna and netbook as its not at my location.

What happens when there is a shooting somewhere you feed covers? Can you support 10,000-20,000 hits per second on you $58 hosting package? What you're really doing is letting radioreference take the brunt of that if it ever happens (not to mention you'll get a $500 scanner master gift card)
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!


burner50
Proud Union THUG
Premium
join:2002-06-05
Fort Worth, TX
kudos:1
reply to IllIlIlllIll

Also,

In my car on the way home this morning, I decided to tune in and see what was happening in Suffolk county. You do have a very well done web page that displayed very nicely on my Galaxy S2... but when I attempted to go back to my GPS app, the stock media player stopped playing. Sort of a deal breaker for me personally.
--
I'm tired of killing stupid people just trying to do my job and go home!