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Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to FifthE1ement

Re: Of course it isn't.

Everyone has an obligation to make sure that their Internet connection is being used in an appropriate manner. You may not be able to stop every attack, but you have to be responsible enough that you can make sure to mitigate any attacks. Simply buying a router, connecting and saying "I don't know how to secure my network" isn't sufficient, IMO. If a person is unable to take the necessary steps to ensure that they can monitor the security of their network, then they have no business buying a router.

It's the same with a credit card. You are protected against fraud, but if you fail to take notify your credit card company as soon as you are aware of the fraud charges, you may be liable.

So at the end of the day, I believe we all carry a level of responsibility to ourselves, to our ISP, and to the Internet to make sure that our connection is secure.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us


Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06

Everyone has an obligation to make sure that their Internet connection is being used in the freest manner. You may not be able to give everyone access, but you have to be responsible enough that you can make sure to increase access. Simply buying a router, connecting and saying "I don't know how to set up an isolated AP" isn't sufficient, IMO. If a person is unable to take the necessary steps to ensure that they can provide an unmonitored open network, then they have no business buying a router.

It's the same with a credit card. You are protected against fraud, but if you fail to take notify your credit card company as soon as you are aware of the fraud charges, you may be liable.

So at the end of the day, I believe we all carry a level of responsibility to ourselves, to our ISP, and to the Internet to make sure that our connection is open.



Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

Are you implying that freest & open should mean that we can do whatever we want on the Internet, damn the laws?



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 recommendation

said by Rob:

Are you implying that freest & open should mean that we can do whatever we want on the Internet, damn the laws?

What 'Law' says you MUST secure your router or put a lock on your door? You've been reading too many sheeple stories. Perhaps it's time for your cool aid...


Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

said by meeeeeeeeee:

said by Rob:

Are you implying that freest & open should mean that we can do whatever we want on the Internet, damn the laws?

What 'Law' says you MUST secure your router or put a lock on your door? You've been reading too many sheeple stories. Perhaps it's time for your cool aid...

No, I was referring to the copyright and infringement laws.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

said by Rob See ProfileNo, I was referring to the copyright and infringement laws. [/BQUOTE :

They require people to secure their routers and put locks on their doors? Where? Can you site the statute and paragraph?

Because you are a sheeple willing to drink the cool aid on command you may believe such nonsense, but don't expect much in the way of support from intelligent people. WE KNOW it's not good to drink the cool aid.



Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

I think you're misunderstanding (and not sure why you have to name call?). I meant that even though you may believe the Internet should be a free and open medium, there are laws that must be followed.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

said by Rob:

I think you're misunderstanding (and not sure why you have to name call?). I meant that even though you may believe the Internet should be a free and open medium, there are laws that must be followed.

Please site them Statute and paragraph and explain how they relate to "securing" routers and putting locks on doors. Because they exist in the minds of sheeple does not make it so... sorry.


Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

Statue and paragraph of the copyright and infringement laws?



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

said by Rob:

Statue and paragraph of the copyright and infringement laws?

Of whatever law you claim requires people to "secure" routers and put locks on doors. That was your claim and WE want to know the laws (Statute and paragraph) that support that.


Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

said by meeeeeeeeee:

said by Rob:

Statue and paragraph of the copyright and infringement laws?

Of whatever law you claim requires people to "secure" routers and put locks on doors. That was your claim and WE want to know the laws (Statute and paragraph) that support that.

I never claimed or implied that there was a law that required people to secure their router or put locks on their door.

If I did, then it was a mistake -- can you please reference me the post I made such a claim?
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

said by Rob:

said by meeeeeeeeee:

said by Rob:

Statue and paragraph of the copyright and infringement laws?

Of whatever law you claim requires people to "secure" routers and put locks on doors. That was your claim and WE want to know the laws (Statute and paragraph) that support that.

I never claimed or implied that there was a law that required people to secure their router or put locks on their door.

If I did, then it was a mistake -- can you please reference me the post I made such a claim?

You've been implying it with every post. THERE IS NO SUCH LAW, plain and simple, no matter WHAT the sheeple bleet.
Expand your moderator at work


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

Re: Of course it isn't.

said by Rob:

Are you implying that freest & open should mean that we can do whatever we want on the Internet, damn the laws?

WHAT LAWS??? If YOU wish to give up your rights and freedoms, go right ahead, but the rest of us will pass on the cool aid... thanks.


Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

said by meeeeeeeeee:

said by Rob:

Are you implying that freest & open should mean that we can do whatever we want on the Internet, damn the laws?

WHAT LAWS??? If YOU wish to give up your rights and freedoms, go right ahead, but the rest of us will pass on the cool aid... thanks.

Sir, I think you've passed on more than just cool aid.
--
CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 edit

said by Rob:

Sir, I think you've passed on more than just cool aid.

I won't take a pass on FACTS. If you state (or even imply) there are laws, be prepared to cite them. More and more courts (as this article very clearly points out) are ruling that there is nothing wrong, criminal or negligent with having an open router.
Expand your moderator at work


meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 edit

1 recommendation

Re: Of course it isn't.

"damn the laws"? WHAT LAWS? Perhaps instead of bleeting and spreading misinformation you should actually read what you are commenting on BEFORE you comment. Spreading misinformation actually damages many open router initiatives and deprives people of Internet access.



Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

1 edit

Really? I've already explained this. I think you need to revisit the posts above.


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to Anon

said by Rob:

I meant that even though you may believe the Internet should be a free and open medium, there are laws that must be followed.

The problem here is a common one. You seem to be equating 'free and open Internet' with some sense of lawlessness. If not, then you are simply stating two unrelated facts: ie, Even though the Internet should be free and open, people still have to stop at red lights. Of course, stating two unrelated facts like this would be pointless, confusing, and is not relevant to the discussion.

The idea of a free and open Internet access does not in any way imply the breaking of laws.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to Rob

said by Rob:

Everyone has an obligation to make sure that their Internet connection is being used in an appropriate manner. You may not be able to stop every attack, but you have to be responsible enough that you can make sure to mitigate any attacks. Simply buying a router, connecting and saying "I don't know how to secure my network" isn't sufficient, IMO. If a person is unable to take the necessary steps to ensure that they can monitor the security of their network, then they have no business buying a router.

However, until the states enact legislation requiring users to secure their routers, the only parties with standing to sue for negligence in state courts are the ISPs. Copyright Trolls are on notice: Take it to the U.S. Courts and file for contributory infringement.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
Expand your moderator at work


FLATLINE

join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

1 edit
reply to CXM_Splicer

Re: Of course it isn't.

Its pretty clear meeeeeeeeee simply doesn't understand that their are no such laws but that doesn't mean you can just leave a network unsecure. People get in trouble with the law all the time in situations where there were no specific laws covering the subject but were charged and in many cases rightfully so under a more generalized law. There's also the possibility of civil suits to think about.

Whether you choose to understand this stuff or not there's always the possibility of getting dragged into court whether you agree, disagree. You know why we know this? Because people ARE getting dragged into court over this issue and it is costing them time and money. Just secure your freaking networks.


CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2

I am not sure what you read but I think meeeeee said quite clearly that "THERE IS NO SUCH LAW, plain and simple..."

And strangely there are unsecured WiFi connections all over the place. I am posting from a hotel's free unencrypted WiFi at the moment... the local library near me also has unencrypted WiFi as do many businesses around here. This hotel doesn't even direct you to a TOS agreement (which they should).

Simply walking down the street exposes you to the possibility of getting dragged into court whether you agree or disagree. That is not a valid reason to live as a recluse.



meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY
reply to FLATLINE

said by FLATLINE:

Its pretty clear meeeeeeeeee simply doesn't understand that their are no such laws but that doesn't mean you can just leave a network unsecure. People get in trouble with the law all the time in situations where there were no specific laws covering the subject but were charged and in many cases rightfully so under a more generalized law. There's also the possibility of civil suits to think about.

Whether you choose to understand this stuff or not there's always the possibility of getting dragged into court whether you agree, disagree. You know why we know this? Because people ARE getting dragged into court over this issue and it is costing them time and money. Just secure your freaking networks.

I full well understand that some Law Enforcement Agencies do sloppy work, inconvenience many people and trample their rights. This is what law suits are for. A few big settlements and suddenly Law Enforcement Agencies learn that THEY are NOT above the law.

Several members of Congress are currently investigating USDOJ and TSA for just such sloppy work and hopefully will put a stop to it. Now several Federal and State Courts are also coming to the conclusion that citizen's rights cannot be trampled by sloppy work. No, I WILL NOT give up my rights because some Law Enforcement Agencies do sloppy work. Our country was NOT founded by people who rolled over and died because it's the easy thing to do. They did what was right, as will I, even if it's not easy. Either you fight for your rights or you lose them. Things worth having are seldom easy.