dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
1207
share rss forum feed


Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31

Interesting Article (long)

link for source:
»www.gatheryourparty.com/articles···appened/

Copy pasta for those who are blocked:

If you haven’t noticed, World of Warcraft’s subs are going down. They even canceled Blizzcon this year. I’d link you some evidence, but I’m too lazy. While the game is definitely not dying, it appears to be on the decline.

Why? Because they’re disappointing more players than they are recruiting, that’s why. Long-time subscribers are leaving in droves, while newbies are merely trickling in. Blizzard has underestimated their consumers’ willingness to deal with a game that seems to be more interested in pleasing potential consumers rather than current ones.

When you ask an older, disgruntled WoW player why he no longer plays the game, his response is generally, “It’s too casual now.” Well, ‘casual’ doesn’t help Blizzard resolve the problem–it’s too vague. And it’s personally offensive to Ghostcrawler, who wears t-shirts often.

I will now list exactly what elements have been removed from World of Warcraft over its 8-year lifespan, and why their removal led to its current decline:

EXCLUSIVITY

WoW is an MMO, which makes it a social game, which makes it a political game. Everyone starts off wanting to be the best tank, or the best healer, or the best DPS in the world. Sometimes they want to be the most mediocre of them all, in which case they’ll roll a Shaman. –My point is that being the best doesn’t matter when it’s easy to be the best. Modern WoW features an assortment of mods that do virtually everything for you, overly simplified character customization, and it keeps finding new ways to level the playing field with every patch, which narrows the potential skill gap and downplays a player’s ability.

There’s nothing wrong with accessibility. WoW is built on accessibility–it’s why it’s the most popular MMO ever. But there are limits. There’s a huge, massive line between accessible and reducing a boss’ stats by 30% so that everyone can kill it. Blizzard has sprinted across that line like a Kenyan.

Back in the day, when everything was inconvenient, there was no “Looking for Group” system. If you wanted to do a dungeon, you had to gather your party OH, YES, FUCKING YES. THAT WASN’T EVEN INTENTIONAL. You had to talk to people, whisper them–you had to make friendships and play politics. If a dungeon went well, you became someone’s go-to tank. If you got a special key, you’d be that one guy with the key who didn’t have to fucking beg me to run back and open the god damn Arcatraz door for him every time he died.

Once upon a time, you could be special in WoW. Now, WoW only has two special people in it: Affiniti of Blood Legion, the greatest healer who has ever existed, and that intimidating Norwegian chick who manages DREAM Paragon or whatever the hell they call themselves now. She terrifies me. I bet she whips her raiders.

The introduction of Looking for Group–and the much more recent addition of Looking for Raid–has turned WoW, an MMO, into a robotic, non-social experience where anyone can obtain virtually anything without actually socializing. In order to obtain a small amount of new subscribers, Blizzard has willingly sacrificed exclusivity, an entire aspect of their game.

Whether they’re willing to admit it or not, a great deal of gamers play WoW for the renown and access to exclusive content, like a giant robot head that you can fly inside of. God, this game is stupid. –When renown cannot be gained, the game becomes significantly less interesting to them.

The removal of the requirement to socialize also breeds a community full of eerily silent players. There’s no greater turn-off than entering a zone with a dead chat and passing player after solo player who are so shy that they pretend that you’re not even there. I just described Japan. The older WoW forced these players to come out of their shells, and they were better off for it. The newer WoW makes being alone efficient, easy, and as boring as ever.

INTIMIDATION AND MYSTERY

Why do people play horror games? Because it’s the easiest way to be emotionally affected by a video game. Jump scares are so easy to create, and yet even the bravest and most jaded among us will often react to them. Making the audience feel a certain way is one of the most difficult, but important feats for a video game to accomplish. You may not enjoy Amnesia: Dark Descent because it scared the shit out of you and then showed you the mangled penis of a 300-year-old dead guy, but it certainly didn’t bore you.

World of Warcraft once intimidated players. Newbies were dropped into a wide, completely open world, with only a simple tutorial to guide them. Back then, there was no built in “QuestHelper” to tell you exactly where to go and what to do. You couldn’t check Wowhead, MMO Champion, or Elitist Jerks (LOL who are we kidding no one goes there anymore) for the solution to your every problem. WoW was a foreign, mysterious place.

Players were once required to conquer great challenges just to enter specific dungeons and raids. They would hear whispers of what those dungeons contained, but they couldn’t enter them until they themselves were ready. Talk about a carrot on a stick: An entire dungeon that could entertain you for months, locked away, with the key just within your reach. The fact that more skilled and dedicated players were already plumbing its depths would spark jealousy in you, but excitement and determination as well. What lay within? Would your guild be good enough to kill the boss? Would the boss kill your guild?

In modern WoW, virtually all bosses are progressively nerfed (weakened by the game developers) over time. Part of the player’s emotional attachment to the game is severed when he knows that every boss will eventually be nerfed so that everyone will be able to kill it. There is no uncertainty or incentive when, simply by waiting for the game to change, everything can be resolved.

One of the most feared bosses in WoW history is M’uru.

As you can see, M’uru is a fucking wind chime Christmas ornament–yet to this day, M’uru still garners more respect than Deathwing because M’uru didn’t get nerfed into the ground. M’uru didn’t have an Easy Mode, or an Easier Mode. You killed it as is or not at all. Everyone hated M’uru. I hated M’uru. But it was the fear that made me shake in my seat every time we almost killed it, and it was the hate that made me spontaneously ejaculate when it died at our feet.

I don’t think anyone is particularly scared of Deathwing when you are guaranteed to fight and kill him by entering a queue. Imagine playing all of your games with cheat codes that make you immortal. Sound fun? –Blizzard appears to think so.

When you know you’ll eventually kill every boss, there is no intimidation. When you can immediately access every part of the game, there is no mystery.

WONDER

I remember the first time I stepped into Onyxia’s Lair. I and 30 others descended into the maw of her cave, unaware of what we would find within. We waited there at the entrance for 20 minutes, because the other 10 bastards were still downloading the patch. Then we waited for 30 more minutes because the GM was just about to finish his Alterac Valley, and then 20 more minutes because one of our tanks hadn’t crafted his fire resist gear yet. Ah, yes. Those were the days.

16 hours later and with only 6 people AFK, we began our assault on the fiery depths. When we reached the very pit, there she was: Onyxia, a massive, terrifying drago–oh–oh my god, where are these whelps coming from?! HELP! –FOR THE LOVE OF–JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!

Long story short, we murdered her. And then we skinned her so that we could wear her skin and scales. And then we sawed off her head and propped it up in our home city. My god, why isn’t this game rated M?

But–something happened. One day, a few years later, Onyxia… came back.

So we killed her again, skinned her, sawed her head off–you know the drill. To ensure she stayed dead, we had one of our priests perform a purification ceremony, and then I impaled the bitch with a Sword of Obedience.

… but it wasn’t enough.

She came back. –And so did her brother, Nefarian. And you’re not going to believe this, but Ragnaros came back as well. And this is going to be shocking, but the entirety of Naxxramas reappeared. And then Zul’Gurub came back. And then Zul’Aman came back. And then new bosses came out–but they had the same models as Ulduar bosses, and the same mechanics as Ahn’Qiraj bosses.

This is a very conservative and incomplete list of assets that have been reused recently in World of Warcraft. There’s nothing wrong with recycling, but when the majority of the new content is actually recolored old content, a great sense of wonder is lost. Reusing content is certainly cost effective–but at what cost? How many people have left the game because they know that, even if they stop playing for a year, they won’t miss anything? They have, after all, seen it all before. What are they going to miss? A recolored Shade of Aran, but this time he’s named ‘Filbert’?

CONCLUSION, AND WHY WORLD OF WARCRAFT IS STILL THE BEST GAME EVER MADE

Imagine being a newbie to WoW. Imagine that you’ve never played it before, and you start playing it today. You’ll enter an impossibly wide world with more content than you can fathom–and the entire game was designed with YOU, the new player, in mind.

WoW must be a mind-blowing experience for those who have never played it before. To them, none of the content is recycled. To them, everything is out of their reach, everything is mysterious, everything is intimidating, and everything is wonderful. This new player is Blizzard’s target consumer–but these strange aborigines are rare. When was the last time you met someone with an interest in video games who had never played World of Warcraft?

The rarity of these consumers is why WoW is in decline. As Blizzard caters to an extreme minority, they seem to have abandoned their majority: their long-time subscribers. They have made the assumption that their long-time subscribers would be willing to endure years of unwanted change and experimentation aimed at a specific group of subscribers who do not yet exist–and that assumption is being proven wrong.

Mystery, intimidation, wonder, exclusivity, and accessibility. These elements are responsible for WoW’s success, and the success of most video games in general. With four of the five gone, WoW’s fate remains uncertain, and–if Mists of Pandaria is any indication–adorable.


Pollux7777

join:2010-02-16
Saint Paul, MN
Very well written article.

I agree with many of the points here. I TOTALLY AGREE that wow has lost a lot of its social aspect with the LFD/LFR.

And yet, I'm torn. On one had, I miss the old days (vanilla player here) of looking for groups in chat, finding people you really clicked with, adding them to friends and so on...

But on the other... I'm 8 years older now than I was when I started playing.. and my life has changed a lot. I have a wife and a baby, a job and mortgage (all of which Im very grateful for), and I just dont have the time to sit around assembling a group. Not to mention I would feel terrible bailing on a group mid-dungeon, as I frequently have to do, if there wasnt the LFD system, and the knowledge that they will have a new tank in a matter of minutes.

Im really not sure what the solution is here. How do you revive the social aspect without sacrificing the modern conveniences? Or are they mutually exclusive?
--
Tawnka - 85 Tauren Warrior - Frostwolf
Brawnx - 85 Human Warrior - Hydraxis
Pollux - 85 Human Paladin Hydraxis


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
reply to Skittles
Thanks for sharing it. Stopped at paragraph 3... skimmed the rest... yeah. He doesn't speak for me.

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
reply to Pollux7777
thats the thing Poll, the mojority that this person speakes of is 8 yrs older, and more than a few have the same responsibilities and gifts that you yourself have, so while to this person the new things blizz has intruduced may be its decline, i see it as this, it has given those who still love the game a means to continue to love the game, had not the invention of LFD come about i would have quit mid wrath, for many of the same reason you mention. my daughter is adorable and i am eternally grateful for her.
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
If you say you burned my map, I'll nail your tits to the table!


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Skittles
My biggest grip is that non-current content is so broken for the levels its meant for.

One clear example is they had to double mage regen for 85's because otherwise the new stuff would cause arcane to not be playable, and that's just IMO a clear patch to make something work not a clean setup to smoothly work things together.

But its likely to late to fix things now.

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
you should watch fatbosses mage guide on youtube


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
said by cymraeg:

you should watch fatbosses mage guide on youtube

Sorry just because of the name I won't.

also another gripe is they nerf PvE for PvP but don't really think about what they do.

the CD on spellsteal, remove curse, and others. they put a cd on them but didn't change how often they're needed.

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
hehe whats wrong with his name, i know youve lost weight, good on ya, but that doesnt make the interview and discussion he did less valid.
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
If you say you burned my map, I'll nail your tits to the table!


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
No offense but I'm not a fan of those that try to wear fatness See Profile as a badge of honor.

sorry mod just felt it'd be a funny pun.

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
lol he isnt fat, its a caricature


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
no need to try to talk a man out of his personal views. just move along...

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
im not trying to change his opinion mate, just stating a fact


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to cymraeg
said by cymraeg:

lol he isnt fat, its a caricature

Even worse.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to Skittles
EDIT: I'm just ranting on my own opinions of the current state of WoW and not necessarily directly responding to this article.

I like to be a scholar of the game. It helps with raid leading (something I enjoy), and it makes the game more fun to me. By taking out ridiculous grinds and requirements, I get to experience far more about classes and specs at the end game, expanding my knowledge.

Because of LFR, I also get a chance to practice rotations for almost every spec and class, to understand difficulties and to know what to expect of my players. Sure, I'm not going to near as streamlined as a guy who focuses on their class/spec as a main, but I'll least get the gist. Also, it gives me a baseline: "hey my 6th alt in LFR gear does more damage than you. Pick it up".

If I had to grind up the kara key on every toon, that would have sucked. If I had to farm fire resist gear (which says nothing about skill and everything about time), that sucks. If gearing my alt took as long as gearing my main just because, that sucks, because I know the fights, but I'm missing my gear crutch for my skill level. So now its harder.

Gear is a nerf. Why is a 5% nerf any worse than getting 5% better gear for everyone over a time frame?

The only problem I think people have is you can't easily look at a player and say "Hey, he killed the content when it was hard!" You used to be able to by gear inspection. Then it was titles and mounts. Now the only way to tell is by looking at achievement timestamps, which is too involved for casual epeening.

They should really just integrate WoWProgress into the UI more directly, or have leaderboards for raid content like they will with challenge modes. Then the leaderboard becomes the true measure of a player's skill.

Additionally, heroic boss kills should be accompanied by the average ilvl of your raid group at time of kill.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Well they did say they might do challenge mode raids if challenge mode dungeons are popular.

And with the auto scaling for challenge modes if you have gold then it'll be a sign your good.


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
reply to Skittles
My Beef with WOW:
1]Everyone is a copy of everyone else.
Meaning they read the same articles as everyone else, and so they all have the same skills, items on their toons.
This game is more like Star Wars the clone wars then anything else. There is a lack of self.

*Note: I like doing my own thing, but am prohibited by it. Because then I get left out of raids and such, because my toon isn't the clone the raid leaders say he should be. IMO, they should have two types of raids. One for the power players/clones and one for the casual players. Let the gear be different as well.

2]PVP: Lacks rewards. If I PvP, I want to take the head of the toon I killed, and loot him. I want to be able to hack his body up and feed it to the dogs.
PvP in WOW lacks those risks, and has no rewards. Unless you PvP in battlegrounds/arena.

3]Quests: Why oh why must I repeat the same quests on all my toons? Why can't each location have a quest giver for each "class"? I find it silly to do a quest on my Hunter, then on my DK, then on my Warlock, then on my Druid. I can understand repeating the quest if I was going for rep. But as I'm trying to build to 85, why not have quests for each class. Same with quest rewards. It's about 50/50 as to if the reward item can be/should be used by my class.

*note:
I would like to have my hunter have melee abilities, or the ablity to cast magic spells. I guess I still look back to how Ultima Online was/is. How the player could create a toon with any skill, then after a while, change the skill set if they didn't like what they picked. WOW has templates that the player has to pick and "like".
Then the skills are given, with less selection now [in talents] then ever before. But you have to pick the talents that the popular web sites tell you, other wise you'll get booted from Raids by the "elitists".

But, I think the main reason why so many left WOW, that I have seldom seem mentioned, is the economy. Millions lost jobs, that would have an impact on membership. Those that found jobs many got lower wages ten what they had before. Many lost their homes, their cars.
The economy is still hurting, and I think it's a reflection of WOW membership.
Also consider Ultima Online. It has a handful of loyal members. I'm willing to bet there is a handful of WOW loyal members, that will keep paying to play no matter how empty the servers, no matter how bad the game got.
I'm also willing to bet that as long as WOW has a certain number of subscribers, it will stay live. Granted the updates will decline but I'm willing to bet they'd keep it alive to keep the money coming in. EA is doing that with UO. There have been a few updates, but for the most part UO sees very few new players. But the head of the UO team says UO is still making money, so it'll stay around.
I can't see WOW being any different. Granted they'll shut down servers and merge them, but that'll be about it.
Also, a lot of former UO players left because UO tried to go "casual". Meaning they made it so that if you didn't want to PvP you didn't have to. The PKers cried because their easy pickings dried up over night. Instead they now had to fight each other, which actually improved the PvP pool. But that was the first and some say major breaking point of UO, the addition of Trammel [PvE] [They mirrored the land. You had the "carebear" land, no PvP unless in a guild. Then you had the PvPer land accessible by gates.].

Can Blizzard give everyone what they want? No. But they do try to appease everyone.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
I think you'd like DNDonline, you can make hybrid classes.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to Snakeoil
I'm just gonna play some devil's advocate.

said by Snakeoil:

1]Everyone is a copy of everyone else.

The cookie cutter is because the game is still numbers based. You can do your own thing, but the game design is still based on "do this much damage over this period of time and the boss will die". If "doing your own thing" was balanced, people wouldn't care because the numbers would still be there.

And they did make a raid for casual "do my own thing" wunderkind: LFR. That is exactly what its there for. People only get kicked for "doing their own thing" in a way that wipes the raid (and therefore lessons the enjoyment of those who feel killing bosses is the goal).

said by Snakeoil:

2]PVP: Lacks rewards. If I PvP, I want to take the head of the toon I killed, and loot him. I want to be able to hack his body up and feed it to the dogs.

If this is just for aesthetics, cool, fancy idea limited by resources, I'd imagine. If you mean the punishment for losing should be more severe, you'd have to have a much better way to enforce a fair fight. Most world PVP is ganking, and always will be, because losing isn't fun. Corpse camping is bad enough.

said by Snakeoil:

3]Quests: Why oh why must I repeat the same quests on all my toons? Why can't each location have a quest giver for each "class"? I find it silly to do a quest on my Hunter, then on my DK, then on my Warlock, then on my Druid. I can understand repeating the quest if I was going for rep. But as I'm trying to build to 85, why not have quests for each class. Same with quest rewards. It's about 50/50 as to if the reward item can be/should be used by my class.

I like this, and its probably just a practical concern. I would like to note that quest rewards in MoP are going to be tailored to your class, which is just a nice thing to have.

said by Snakeoil:

*note:
I would like to have my hunter have melee abilities, or the ablity to cast magic spells. I guess I still look back to how Ultima Online was/is. How the player could create a toon with any skill, then after a while, change the skill set if they didn't like what they picked. WOW has templates that the player has to pick and "like".
Then the skills are given, with less selection now [in talents] then ever before. But you have to pick the talents that the popular web sites tell you, other wise you'll get booted from Raids by the "elitists".

Different strokes I guess. Switching toons coooould be easier, I suppose. Leveling IS easy, but you're still talking about what is about 48 hours of grinding just to level up, before any gearing decisions.

Also to repeat the gear thing: raids are tuned to numbers. If you pick a non-optimized spec, you are lowering your numbers. Since raid leaders don't know you from Adam, your ability to do numbers matters. Picking the guy who's missing a left foot might not be the best idea for your team, even if he might end up Tom Dempsey.

Once someone DOES know you, they probably won't care as much if you want to try that crazy BM spec, as they have figured out your skill can accomodate the handicaps you've placed on yourself.

said by Snakeoil:

But, I think the main reason why so many left WOW, that I have seldom seem mentioned, is the economy. Millions lost jobs, that would have an impact on membership. Those that found jobs many got lower wages ten what they had before. Many lost their homes, their cars.
The economy is still hurting, and I think it's a reflection of WOW membership.

While this would be interesting to actually discover for real, I don't think the economy matters AS much. $15/month is still pretty cheap for long entertainment. Movies, for instance, tend to do well in recessions because people forego vacations but still need entertainment.

And I know jack all about UO (I played it once in 1999 I think?), so I'll defer to you on the rest


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
kudos:1
quote:
The cookie cutter is because the game is still numbers based. You can do your own thing, but the game design is still based on "do this much damage over this period of time and the boss will die". If "doing your own thing" was balanced, people wouldn't care because the numbers would still be there.

It's the "numbers thing" that gets me lost. All MMORPGs/Games are nothing more then about numbers when you get down to it.

I'll use UO again, because I paid more attention to combat.

You had 4 stats to think about:
Dexterity: How fast you can cast a spell, shoot a bow, swing an axe/sword.
Strength: Hit points, also how much weight you can carry, and damage caused by melee weapons.
Intelligence: This was for mana, casting spells.

Then of course you has the skills that also impacted the amount of damage you can do. That list is big [for example lumber jacking boosts the damage of toons that use the swordsmanship skill and use an Axe [axes are classed as swords].

Then on top of that, weapons had boosts/abilities. That also added to the damage score.
Also items that the toon can wear also had boosts/abilities.

So it all boiled down to nothing more then numbers.

For example: No way would a fresh stamped toon, defeat a toon that was all maxed out. Just like WOW.
I guess where I get lost is the idea of "end game content". UO never had/nor does have end game content. It does have dungeons, and the bosses there require teamwork and planing to take out.
Hmm, maybe UO did have end game content, but it wasn't considered as such, at least not until WOW.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by Snakeoil:

For example: No way would a fresh stamped toon, defeat a toon that was all maxed out. Just like WOW.

I don't see how this is an oddity... or even remotely a problem. I loathe pvp and I still don't see the argument for that horrible side of the game. At equal gear, you get to test equal ability.


Ginjer
Premium
join:2009-08-14
Honolulu, HI
reply to Skittles
I totally understand part of this article. It is similar to how things were in EQ1. I played in Vanilla, but towards the end of the expansion, and never had the opportunity to do Nax. However, six years ago or so I had a lot more time to play this game. So, myself six years ago totally agrees that WoW has made the game easier.

However, the older me, with two kids and a wife, and Army life as a career actually enjoys the changes. It gives me the opportunity to see the content though LFR and LFD. Don't get me wrong, it isn't the hardcore content, but it is some of it. Then, when time permits, I am able to jump in with a real raid group. Most of us in the Mal'Ganis guild had the opportunity to find a guild we sort of aligned with to complete it. There were minor changes, but nothing that was really "difficult".

I think it is difficult for someone like myself to pick a side on this, when there are separate parts of me that wants to side with one or the other.
--
Genjer (85 Goblin Death Knight), Jinnjer (85 Troll Druid), Ginjer (85 Orc Hunter), Taeble (85 Goblin Mage), Westernsteer (85 Tauren Paladin), Jinnjer (85 Goblin Rogue), Potable (85 Goblin Priest), Sunlock (85 Orc Warlock), Dalishaman (83 Orc Shaman) MG/H

Pali

join:2009-09-02

1 recommendation

reply to Skittles
Blizzard seem like a clever bunch of people and I'm sure they do their research. If the main reason that people were leaving was because raid bosses were getting too easy/accessable then I don't see a reason for not adding 2-3 optional hardmode bosses. If that's what it would take to increase subs by 1-2m then it seems like a no brainer. The fact that they haven't leads me to belileve that there are other issues that need to be considered.

I agree with losing out on the social aspect somewhat, with the introduction of LFR/LFG, but it's possible that without these new features the subs might even be lower than they are today.

A majority of WOW players do not read WOW forums and therefore don't post on them. Some people are more than happy just to go round herbing or crafting or leveling up once a month. Just because you think that your WOW experience is different to how it was in Vanilla doesn't equal reasons why subscriptions are declining.

I think there are 2 seperate discussions. Why WOW is not as good as it was back in the day? And why are the subscriptions declining? I don't think that they are as dependant on each other as most people think.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
Why wouldn't the two go hand in hand. If it's not as good as back then, then of course less people will play it.

There are very few people who are "more than happy just to go round herbing or crafting or leveling up once a month."

For the past 3 expansions, WoW has displayed the big bad boss at the end of the expansion. Not everyone got to see the content they bought the box for in BC. Things got easier in Wrath. ICC nerfs, casual "raiders" got to see the Lich King. Cataclysm came, LFR came, everyone who grinding gear in the Hour of Twilight heroics got to see Deathwing once they received an ilvl 372.

No exclusivity. You spend a couple hours a week getting gear, you get to see every piece of content available in the game. The only thing that differentiates real raiders from lFR heros is meta achieve mounts and that little green "Heroic" word in the gear tooltips (which you can't see unless you inspect someone). Pretty soon I'd imagine that you could get a mount from the next tiers LFR...

Wherever you came from Pali, go back to there. The article is spot on and my first sentence is 100% true.
--
If you find the information in my post helpful or interesting, please throw me a Kudos. Thanks!


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Pali
Well lets see.

In classic and BC only a few got to see raid bosses at all (think attunemnts ect)

but its sounding like the peak of wow subs was early wrath (ie the BC people went on into Wrath to check it out then started declining (btw its a guess as to when the decline started)

so lets see based on the guess, subs want it to be hard to even get to see a raid boss.

there's even a blue where they call raid bosses a NEW thing (WTF)

IMO what they need to do is add in optional reg (or higher) only bosses and optional hero only bosses

Also one thing to fix DS a little would have been for reg to remove the drakes that fly you to the 2/3/4th bosses, just have it so you have to kill trash to get to the cave with the boss and then enable the drakes once you'd cleared the trash for that section.

If you look even ultra comes from a cave, you just don't fight him there.

then they could put in some mini bosses on the way to the caves.

Also remove the port to EoE (or atleast don't have it right there) and instead have them go to the blue dragonshire (you know where there's that blue light in dragon blight)

adding the trash would make it so even reg would take longer and have a better chance of dropping BoP trash drops.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
I remember the cry of the disaffected was "Hero class is the death of WoW" or "They couldn't balance 9 classes, they blew it on the 10th!". Now it's Pandas. These are just broad banners, used as false pretext for many of the disenchanted and bored.

It's not the same game. Those who adapt and still love it... still love it. At some point, we all stop adapting, and we become set in our ways/paradigms. Only a bad thing when you don't realize its happening to you.

edit: I like optional heroic bosses. How many here actually downed heroic Sinestra before Firelands? Before Dragon Soul? Before MoP?

--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Malanorei (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Just toss in some extra bosses and I'll be happier.

8bosses in a tier is IMO to few.
I get that LFR needs to be somewhat short, but it'd be nice to have it like Kara, with the standard line of bosses and then some that are out of the way but fun and/or worth doing.

t11 had 11 reg bosses (plus BH)
t12 only had 7 (plus BH)
t13 only 8

I liked t11 best.
2nd is t12.


Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
said by DarkLogix:

t11 had 11 reg bosses (plus BH)
t12 only had 7 (plus BH)
t13 only 8

I liked t11 best.
2nd is t12.

What's 3rd best?


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
said by Skittles:

said by DarkLogix:

t11 had 11 reg bosses (plus BH)
t12 only had 7 (plus BH)
t13 only 8

I liked t11 best.
2nd is t12.

What's 3rd best?

well t13 was just bland.
its fun but it doesn't have that spice that the others have.

And it is current for one more lockout.

but I think I'd have to put T8 there, as its so FUN that it invades the cata list. but its not a cata raid so it can't be #1 on a list of Cata tiers.


saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
reply to Immer
said by Immer:

Thanks for sharing it. Stopped at paragraph 3... skimmed the rest... yeah. He doesn't speak for me.

+1

Pali

join:2009-09-02
reply to mettachain
It's true that if the game gets worse then it's likely that less people will play.

But just because you find it less enjoyable, doesn't mean everybody else does.

The article does have some merit, but more about the social aspect.

One of the first lines of the article reads "Everyone starts off wanting to be the best tank, or the best healer, or the best DPS in the world." I think this line sets the tone and isn't something that a large majority of the player base feels when they first started playing. To be honest, I didn't know what dps meant until I was level 70 (wrath baby)