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Ginjer
Premium
join:2009-08-14
Honolulu, HI
reply to Skittles

Re: Interesting Article (long)

I totally understand part of this article. It is similar to how things were in EQ1. I played in Vanilla, but towards the end of the expansion, and never had the opportunity to do Nax. However, six years ago or so I had a lot more time to play this game. So, myself six years ago totally agrees that WoW has made the game easier.

However, the older me, with two kids and a wife, and Army life as a career actually enjoys the changes. It gives me the opportunity to see the content though LFR and LFD. Don't get me wrong, it isn't the hardcore content, but it is some of it. Then, when time permits, I am able to jump in with a real raid group. Most of us in the Mal'Ganis guild had the opportunity to find a guild we sort of aligned with to complete it. There were minor changes, but nothing that was really "difficult".

I think it is difficult for someone like myself to pick a side on this, when there are separate parts of me that wants to side with one or the other.
--
Genjer (85 Goblin Death Knight), Jinnjer (85 Troll Druid), Ginjer (85 Orc Hunter), Taeble (85 Goblin Mage), Westernsteer (85 Tauren Paladin), Jinnjer (85 Goblin Rogue), Potable (85 Goblin Priest), Sunlock (85 Orc Warlock), Dalishaman (83 Orc Shaman) MG/H

Pali

join:2009-09-02

1 recommendation

reply to Skittles
Blizzard seem like a clever bunch of people and I'm sure they do their research. If the main reason that people were leaving was because raid bosses were getting too easy/accessable then I don't see a reason for not adding 2-3 optional hardmode bosses. If that's what it would take to increase subs by 1-2m then it seems like a no brainer. The fact that they haven't leads me to belileve that there are other issues that need to be considered.

I agree with losing out on the social aspect somewhat, with the introduction of LFR/LFG, but it's possible that without these new features the subs might even be lower than they are today.

A majority of WOW players do not read WOW forums and therefore don't post on them. Some people are more than happy just to go round herbing or crafting or leveling up once a month. Just because you think that your WOW experience is different to how it was in Vanilla doesn't equal reasons why subscriptions are declining.

I think there are 2 seperate discussions. Why WOW is not as good as it was back in the day? And why are the subscriptions declining? I don't think that they are as dependant on each other as most people think.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
Why wouldn't the two go hand in hand. If it's not as good as back then, then of course less people will play it.

There are very few people who are "more than happy just to go round herbing or crafting or leveling up once a month."

For the past 3 expansions, WoW has displayed the big bad boss at the end of the expansion. Not everyone got to see the content they bought the box for in BC. Things got easier in Wrath. ICC nerfs, casual "raiders" got to see the Lich King. Cataclysm came, LFR came, everyone who grinding gear in the Hour of Twilight heroics got to see Deathwing once they received an ilvl 372.

No exclusivity. You spend a couple hours a week getting gear, you get to see every piece of content available in the game. The only thing that differentiates real raiders from lFR heros is meta achieve mounts and that little green "Heroic" word in the gear tooltips (which you can't see unless you inspect someone). Pretty soon I'd imagine that you could get a mount from the next tiers LFR...

Wherever you came from Pali, go back to there. The article is spot on and my first sentence is 100% true.
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If you find the information in my post helpful or interesting, please throw me a Kudos. Thanks!


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Pali
Well lets see.

In classic and BC only a few got to see raid bosses at all (think attunemnts ect)

but its sounding like the peak of wow subs was early wrath (ie the BC people went on into Wrath to check it out then started declining (btw its a guess as to when the decline started)

so lets see based on the guess, subs want it to be hard to even get to see a raid boss.

there's even a blue where they call raid bosses a NEW thing (WTF)

IMO what they need to do is add in optional reg (or higher) only bosses and optional hero only bosses

Also one thing to fix DS a little would have been for reg to remove the drakes that fly you to the 2/3/4th bosses, just have it so you have to kill trash to get to the cave with the boss and then enable the drakes once you'd cleared the trash for that section.

If you look even ultra comes from a cave, you just don't fight him there.

then they could put in some mini bosses on the way to the caves.

Also remove the port to EoE (or atleast don't have it right there) and instead have them go to the blue dragonshire (you know where there's that blue light in dragon blight)

adding the trash would make it so even reg would take longer and have a better chance of dropping BoP trash drops.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
I remember the cry of the disaffected was "Hero class is the death of WoW" or "They couldn't balance 9 classes, they blew it on the 10th!". Now it's Pandas. These are just broad banners, used as false pretext for many of the disenchanted and bored.

It's not the same game. Those who adapt and still love it... still love it. At some point, we all stop adapting, and we become set in our ways/paradigms. Only a bad thing when you don't realize its happening to you.

edit: I like optional heroic bosses. How many here actually downed heroic Sinestra before Firelands? Before Dragon Soul? Before MoP?

--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Malanorei (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Just toss in some extra bosses and I'll be happier.

8bosses in a tier is IMO to few.
I get that LFR needs to be somewhat short, but it'd be nice to have it like Kara, with the standard line of bosses and then some that are out of the way but fun and/or worth doing.

t11 had 11 reg bosses (plus BH)
t12 only had 7 (plus BH)
t13 only 8

I liked t11 best.
2nd is t12.


Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
said by DarkLogix:

t11 had 11 reg bosses (plus BH)
t12 only had 7 (plus BH)
t13 only 8

I liked t11 best.
2nd is t12.

What's 3rd best?


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
said by Skittles:

said by DarkLogix:

t11 had 11 reg bosses (plus BH)
t12 only had 7 (plus BH)
t13 only 8

I liked t11 best.
2nd is t12.

What's 3rd best?

well t13 was just bland.
its fun but it doesn't have that spice that the others have.

And it is current for one more lockout.

but I think I'd have to put T8 there, as its so FUN that it invades the cata list. but its not a cata raid so it can't be #1 on a list of Cata tiers.


saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
reply to Immer
said by Immer:

Thanks for sharing it. Stopped at paragraph 3... skimmed the rest... yeah. He doesn't speak for me.

+1

Pali

join:2009-09-02
reply to mettachain
It's true that if the game gets worse then it's likely that less people will play.

But just because you find it less enjoyable, doesn't mean everybody else does.

The article does have some merit, but more about the social aspect.

One of the first lines of the article reads "Everyone starts off wanting to be the best tank, or the best healer, or the best DPS in the world." I think this line sets the tone and isn't something that a large majority of the player base feels when they first started playing. To be honest, I didn't know what dps meant until I was level 70 (wrath baby)


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
Don't you effing read anything? Obviously it's not just MY opinion. In fact, I don't complain that often. I enjoy playing this game and I've been playing it for over 6 years. I adapt to the changes.

I just attack when I hear someone with no obvious forethought stating some irrelevant personal opinions.

You keep stating what this article is about yet you fail to grasp that the "social aspect" AND new content is what made the game better. You think these two things don't go hand in hand.

Still, the article is spot on. Like you stated, you're a 'Wrath baby,' your opinion means as much as fishing up a copper coin in the Dalaran fountain. You don't know how it used to be.
--
If you find the information in my post helpful or interesting, please throw me a Kudos. Thanks!


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
If we limit the value of opinions to only those who raided in vanilla, then we'll get the same group think that lead to the article shared by the OP. His opinion isn't worthless, just biased favorably to the current state of wow. I raided in BC, and do not share the opinion of the author of the article, either. The top of the l33t ladder is still there... so is the bottom... there are now just fewer rungs in the mediocre middle.
--
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Malanorei (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.

Pali

join:2009-09-02
reply to mettachain
All I'm saying is that the people that post on forums do not represent the entire WOW community. People tend to use forums to complain about things, expecially the official WOW forum.

So basing the reasons for subscription decline on forum posts alone could give you incorrect results. Which is why Blizzard uses other statisitics as well as forum feedback.

Everyone that posts on forums usually use opinions. Otherwise it would be boring


wapu
Broadband Ranger
Premium
join:2001-09-05
Boca Raton, FL
reply to mettachain
said by mettachain:

Wherever you came from Pali, go back to there. The article is spot on and my first sentence is 100% true.

said by mettachain:

Still, the article is spot on. Like you stated, you're a 'Wrath baby,' your opinion means as much as fishing up a copper coin in the Dalaran fountain. You don't know how it used to be.

What's with the Pali hate? Do you know him from something?

I agree the article was spot on for many players, even for me as a vanilla player that went years without grouping or going inside a dungeon. I always wanted the elite gear, but didn't have the time to commit to getting it. I do like being able to go back and do the old content and see it now. I can imagine how tough it was then as I one shot all the trash mobs in the Mana Tombs.

One thing the article did leave out was Thottbot. That was the best site for a long time. It also failed to mention how fun it was to run for 30-40 minutes to find a new flight path and how awesome it was to run around until level 40 and then use up bag space to hold the mount summoning device. Then questing for a whip and some boots to move even faster.

I think the game has lost some of it's epicness due to how easy it is to get around now. All the flight points are known and I can fly faster than a taxi bird. All of this has lead to faster game progression and when you can do it faster, you get bored with it easier.
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mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
reply to Pali
said by Pali:

A majority of WOW players do not read WOW forums and therefore don't post on them. Some people are more than happy just to go round herbing or crafting or leveling up once a month. Just because you think that your WOW experience is different to how it was in Vanilla doesn't equal reasons why subscriptions are declining.

said by Pali:

All I'm saying is that the people that post on forums do not represent the entire WOW community.

--
If you find the information in my post helpful or interesting, please throw me a Kudos. Thanks!

Pali

join:2009-09-02
reply to Skittles
For the record I think there is room to add 2-3 additional hardcore only bosses which didn't get nerfed. I would probably have fun pounding my face into them once the current content was complete. People could still see them, just not beat them.

It's more likely that blizz don't want to spend the extra money developing for the top 5% player base.


mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
said by Pali:

I would probably have fun pounding my face into them...

You motor-moating son of a bitch you.
--
If you find the information in my post helpful or interesting, please throw me a Kudos. Thanks!