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tinytommy

@bell.ca
reply to pmd

Re: PVR Drive Cycling

Hates off to everyone for calling Rogers, complaining, elevating the complaints and not giving up. Recent history tells us that this could have taken a lot longer to get fixed.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to pmd

It appears I have the new Sara 1.93.15.1. Unfortunately ive been watching stuff, but i'll be done shortly and will see if the problem is fixed.

You can also get to the diag screen from your remote... Hold the pause button on the remote for 10 seconds until the mail icon appears on your box, then press the page up button to scroll.



metalhawk

join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON
reply to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:

You know, I always wondered this, Why the PVR can't have "folders" for shows... I dont have that many, but always having to scroll down to find what was recently recorded is crappy... At least it should be an option, to start at top or view last recorded... I don't know about you, but I tend to want to watch what was recorded most recently.

You could scroll up and after 3 clicks you would be at your latest recorded show.


tinytommy

@bell.ca

Got the update in Ottawa this morning. Everything seems to be working fine - hd stays on all the time now. At least I don't have to unplug my box every night.



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21

All is well here, no more spin up/spin down.


Warhorse

join:2007-09-25
Orleans, ON
reply to pmd

Evidently Ottawa has received the fix as well. Regardless, this whole situation could have been avoided if the proper approach as indicated in my earlier bleat had been followed. Also, why not keep subscribers informed as to problems and delays? Maybe fewer bad feelings would have been generated if customers knew what was going on.

Now if Rogers would only fix their iPod App so that saves don't keep being listed when in fact they already have been deleted from the PVR I might start to respect their technical capabilities!!!



pmd

join:2012-08-08
Manotick, ON

Our fix arrived in rural Ottawa. The IPG still shows descriptions only for today/tomorrow. After that you have to hit INFO - the descriptions are not saved if you return to that day/time you have to do it again.
--
Computing 46 years and still get stumped by tech problems.



metalhawk

join:2007-02-06
Nepean, ON

said by pmd:

Our fix arrived in rural Ottawa. The IPG still shows descriptions only for today/tomorrow. After that you have to hit INFO - the descriptions are not saved if you return to that day/time you have to do it again.

Actually, it shows the information for today, tomorrow, and 6 days from now (the last available day in the guide). But the other 3 days in between have no information.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21

Seems to show all 6 days ahead for me. Maybe it didnt properly download the IPG? I'd power cycle the box maybe.



avernar

join:2002-05-23
Mississauga, ON
reply to pmd

Can tech support push the firmware to a unit? I still don't have the fixed one.



John Ottawa

@rogers.com
reply to pmd

Just notice today the cycling has stopped. Another thing that was corrected - when watching a recorded program and clicking the list button it goes directly back to the proper program listing instead of going to the beginning of the list.



bwiz2k3

@rogers.com
reply to HiVolt

I know the spin up/down was annoying and I am happy there was some kind of fix, but does no one have an issue with the fact that the hard drive now runs 24/7?

Seems like a pretty band-aid type solution to me.

We can't fix the real problem so we'll just leave it running all the time.

WTF?



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

said by bwiz2k3 :

We can't fix the real problem so we'll just leave it running all the time.

FYI and FEI it's much better to have the hard drive running 24/7 than spin down and restart each time it needs to read/write --- the HD were designed and built for constant usage. When it starts and stops like its been doing the HD will fail much faster.


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to bwiz2k3

IMHO the HDD spinning 24/7 shouldn't be an issue. WD or Seagate=6 to 8 watts power draw and 50,000 hrs mtbf minimum lifespan.

said by mozerd:

.....the HD were designed and built for constant usage. When it starts and stops like its been doing the HD will fail much faster.

Agreed 1000%

puzz1ed

join:2005-02-20
Markham, ON

I agree too but there has been no explanation why, if the PVR is off and not actively recording, does it need to access the hard drive with any frequency? Certainly this could have been better designed. Perhaps the drive would need to wake up for infrequent housekeeping tasks but nothing like what has been happening recently.



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

The drive should not SLEEP or spin down while the PVR is powered up. As to WHY, you would need to ask CISCO .... Rogers will have no clue of whatsoever nature regardless of what Arthur may want to Chim in and state.



bwiz2k3

@rogers.com
reply to mozerd

So do you leave all the lights on in your house for the same reason?

Do you leave your car idling constantly for the same reason?

The HD in the PVR never ran 24/7 before and everything was just fine. I am fine with it running when the PVR is on, but I see zero need for it to be running when the PVR is off, that is just wasteful and not needed. I am sure the average user of a PVR does not turn it on and off frequently during a typical day so I am sure the HD will survive that type of normal on/off use.

Yes the power draw is not that great, but it is still unnecessary to run it 24/7.

Not to mention the fact that the HD spinning 24/7 does make noise. In a quiet bedroom at night it is certainly noticeable.

I am fairly sure this was the low road in trying to fix the spin up/down issue and the fact that possibly running it all the time is not a bad thing from the HDs perspective, that happens to be an unintended by-product.



elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

4 edits

said by bwiz2k3 :

I am fine with it running when the PVR is on, but I see zero need for it to be running when the PVR is off, that is just wasteful and not needed.

Do you mean "off" as in idle mode waiting to record a scheduled show OR "off" as in the unit itself being powered off?

IMHO, if it's the former, that would make sense having the HDD spin (a built in timer would make more sense) BUT if it's the latter, that would be a serious design issue/flaw, not to mention, a fire hazard...HDDs have been known to go up in smoke from overheating issues.........Rare, but apparently it does happen.


bwiz2k3

@rogers.com

I am not aware that there is more than one off state on the 8300 (although I could be wrong). When I say "off" I mean the PVR still has power coming from the wall but the front 'power switch' or remote power switch has been pressed so that it is not 'on' [it's not outputting anything to the TV].

Since the unit still has power and has timers for recording, I don't see the need to have the hard drive spinning as well. The hard drive is doing nothing of value at that point. I can understand that there may be a need at times for the HD to run [for updating, etc], so it should power up then. Obviously no where near as much as it was with the recent problems. But I feel the hard drive should not spin unless there is a reason. My guess would be that the typical PVR sits 'off' much more than it does on. So spin it up when it needs to record, needs updating or when the unit is powered on for watching TV. Have it not spinning all the rest of the time.

Having had the 8300 for years, I have never been aware of the HD spinning constantly with the until 'off' until this most recent update.

Am I wrong?



Tinytommy

@bell.ca

The HD was always left spinning in the firmware before 1.93.14.1 (the firmware that caused all the latest HSUD problems).


LeadFoot

join:2012-09-21

1 edit

Resent firmware versions:
Oct 2010 – 1.92.15.2 – HSUD started
May 2011 – 1.92.16.101 – HDD running 24/7
Sep 2012 – 1.93.14.1 – HSUD returned
Oct 2012 – 1.93.15.1 – HDD running 24/7 again

Although some may think running the HDD 24/7 is a waste of energy, it is only a small percentage of the PVR power consumption (around 5 watts).

Non-scientific test: While looking at the front of your PVR after it’s been turned off for at least a couple of hours, run your hand over its top. The RHS (above the HDD) is not as warm as the centre (above the CPU) or the LHS (above the power supply).

Other PVR manufactures like Motorola have had there HDDs running 24/7 for years with no issue.

These things were designed in an era when energy efficiency was not that important.


puzz1ed

join:2005-02-20
Markham, ON

said by LeadFoot:

These things were designed in an era when energy efficiency was not that important.

There were no regulations or no Energy Star testing and the boxes were most likely designed as cheaply as possible. Cable companies wouldn't care since it's the consumer that's paying the hidden electricity costs. Set top boxes are ubiquitous now so there is more concern about power. Two STBs can use as much power as a fridge.

»www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?fus···_code=ST


elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

This is the problem with Rogers. They're going backwards all the time. We had STBs back in the '70s.

The object of the game is to eliminate peripherals and consolidate the hardware required into a single unit eg: the television/HTPC/Media Center itself. This requires far less power consumption and more end user control over the device.

Figures Rogers will drag us kicking and screaming back to the stone age............



pmd

join:2012-08-08
Manotick, ON
reply to pmd

Now that the immediate problems have been solved, please everyone stop posting your opinions about what Rogers "should" be doing or what you "think" is the problem. It's patently obvious by now Rogers doesn't respond unless they have something to announce (I followed only 3 during the current fiasco and Rogers made announcements in all but their own forum!). Oh and my latest tweet to @reogershelp why the drives need to be on 24/7 got "ask the manufacturer".


Hooter

join:2009-08-17
Scarborough, ON

If you email Cisco, they tell you to contact your ISP. I tried this with the firmware fiasco and got nowhere with Cisco. Pass the buck time! LOL!



pmd

join:2012-08-08
Manotick, ON

I did reply that since Rogers had pushed the updates I assumed they know the reason for the changes and why the drive was again on 24/7.

My (very) old LG recorder is totally off until it needs to record. Never wakes me up even when it turns on to record. I can't live with the 8300HD drive noise when I'm sleeping. I know the newer ones are quieter but are they really "quiet" in a quiet bedroom?