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TheZandrew

join:2011-01-04

Speedtouch.ca not so honorable as it turns out...

I've recently flashed my TG585v7 to the newest firmware posted by speedtouch.ca to solve some stability issues (due to bell moving my line from the remote to the CO). As it turns out, the build has a significant WPS issue that makes wireless connectivity unusable. I've contacted Dave from speedtouch.ca and thats where things got interesting...

----------
Hi Dave,
Just wanted to give you some feedback on that firmware update and maybe get some input from you. The DSL is in fact more stable. But its done at the cost of the Wireless. There is a bug in the WiFi protected setup to the extent that WPA(2) is unworkable and causes the gateway to crash. The only work around I've found is that button in the front. You have to press it, let the wps fail and then press it again before authenticating with your password.
Any thoughts?
Thanks

----------
Its discountinued, so there is nothing I can do
acme telephone co.

----------
Seems fair, but consider pulling that firmware from your site so you don't run into ppl emailing you for posting a buggy build. Like I did.
Cheers

----------
Dude. I don't write it! Read the disclaimer!!!! And its free!!! Soo???? That's why they make new ones every year like everything else on the planet!
acme telephone co.

----------
I know you didn't write it, as you are not a developer. Sure its free, and your disclaimer doesn't really stop people from flashing the bad firmware and coming back to you for posting a dud since you are an official distributor. Someone's gonna eventually come to the conclusion that you are posting bad firmware to get new sales... see where I am going with this?
Anyways, this is just a friendly email kindly asking you to pull the firmware from your site so YOU don't run into these issues.
What you do from now on is up to you. Think about it, your rep vs a firmware image.
Cheers
---------

It just seems funny that I care slightly more about his rep than he does. What did I ever do to him to get this kind of unprofessional response?

My conclusion? Dave from speedtouch.ca is posting bad firmware images that wrecks basic functionality for older models in order to sell new models.

Thoughts?



Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:19

The only problem is with WPS? I've got a lot of sympathy with this Dave guy. I mean seriously.. Ya, there are a couple of rare and exceptional devices that will only work with WPS, but overall what a useless feature.

Also, there is this:

WPS has been shown to easily fall to brute-force attacks.[2] A major security flaw was revealed in December 2011 that affects wireless routers with the WPS feature, which most recent models have enabled by default. The flaw allows a remote attacker to recover the WPS PIN in a few hours and, with it, the network's WPA/WPA2 pre-shared key.[3] Users have been urged to turn off the WPS feature,[4] although this may not be possible on some router models.[5]
from: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi_Protected_Setup
--
electronicsguru.ca/for_sale/Cablemodems

TheZandrew

join:2011-01-04

2 edits

I might not have been the clearest in explaining.

1. There is no way of connecting to wireless, unless you do WPS. As in typing in the correct password to a broadcasted SSID doesn't work. The router won't respond UNLESS you press the WPS button and then it fails. (Meaning you cant connect at all without WPS, and WPS itself doesn't work)

2. There's no way of disabling WPS either. Which means, you can't access WiFi with a password unless you go to the router, press the button, let it fail, try to connect with the password and just to be rejected again, and repeatedly try until it takes. You have to do this each time you try to connect to the router, like a system restart.

This bug defeats the idea of conventional setup completely, aka basic functionality...Which makes the firmware buggy and incredibly infuriating.

Also, I haven't done anything to Dave from Speedtouch.ca

Heres what I've done so far:

1. Reported the firmware is buggy and asked for advice, which was rejected, fair enough, the product is old and I wasn't expecting much anyways.

2. Suggested that he take down the firmware from the site so that nobody runs into the same situation again

3. Arrived at a reasonable conclusion about his intentions based on his actions

Heres what I haven't done:

1. I HAVE NOT demanded for a replacement.

2. I HAVE NOT made any unreasonable requests as his customer, yes I bought the modem from him 2 years ago.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I buy something, I'd expect it to last longer than 3 years, and the supplier/ manufacturer give proper support. I am an academic and medical professional, I dedicate my efforts to support and improve quality of life for my patients, I honestly dont see why its too much to ask for from everybody else. Do you ever see your doctor and he tells you that you're out of luck because you're too old? And that many people are born and many die every year? Think about that.

------------------------------------------------------------
Update!
After getting on the phone with a friend back home in the US, who gave me a number of a Thomson dealer in Houston. I emailed them up and guess what? They provided support even though I didn't buy it from them, and they didnt seem to care even when I told them that. THAT'S how you do customer service, and THAT'S how you build your reputation. Many of you may disagree with this, but at the end of the day, they have my business in the future and speedtouch.ca doesn't
------------------------------------------------------------



notadavefan

@execulink.com
reply to TheZandrew

I will post with my "real identity" later, but I am not a fan of Dave from speedtouch.ca

I have in the past recommended his company and have bought from him myself a number of times, but now will never do so again, even if it means paying more later.

I'm giving him a few more days to sort himself out before I have to take action.

I will post again sometime next week with more details, I just want my situation to be corrected with as little fuss as possible.


TheZandrew

join:2011-01-04

said by notadavefan :

I will post with my "real identity" later, but I am not a fan of Dave from speedtouch.ca

I have in the past recommended his company and have bought from him myself a number of times, but now will never do so again, even if it means paying more later.

I'm giving him a few more days to sort himself out before I have to take action.

I will post again sometime next week with more details, I just want my situation to be corrected with as little fuss as possible.

Well thats the thing, you'll never actually pay more in the long run if you dont buy from him. Anything DSL, you can buy a TP-Link to replace. Anything cable, you can get elsewhere like CC, NCIX etc.

The only reasons why I bought from him was because he was:
1. A "local business", by local I mean within Ontario.
and
2. A small business where customer service is typically terrific (I was sadly mistaken).

You'd see why Im ticked off. You buy local, support small business, and they come back and bite you in the ass.



Mike2009

join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
kudos:3
reply to TheZandrew

Can't you just reflash to the old firmware?


TheZandrew

join:2011-01-04

said by Mike2009:

Can't you just reflash to the old firmware?

That I did, the shop in Houston kindly emailed me the factory default firmware. However, that's not the point. The point is that Dave from speedtouch.ca appears to be doing less than honorable things to boost sales.

MajorPewPew

join:2010-09-19
reply to TheZandrew

Wow, Im surprised that you actually bought anything from Dave. I emailed speedtouch.ca once with an inquiry, never heard from them. I tried again a few days later, Dave replied with "no" and that was it. That was probably the most unprofessional reply I have ever seen. If the response was that poor before you handed over your money, what kind of support could you expect from him after?

Moral of the story, dont buy from sketchy people. Hell, even the website seems half-assed and super sketchy. Also, dont expect so much from people, honor is rare and hard to come by these days.
--
Weeing off the roof of trinity college since 2003! Yeah baby!



Teddy Boom
k kudos Received
Premium
join:2007-01-29
Toronto, ON
kudos:19
reply to TheZandrew

said by TheZandrew:

1. There is no way of connecting to wireless, unless you do WPS. As in typing in the correct password to a broadcasted SSID doesn't work. The router won't respond UNLESS you press the WPS button and then it fails. (Meaning you cant connect at all without WPS, and WPS itself doesn't work)

Okay, that is a useless firmware
--
electronicsguru.ca/for_sale/Cablemodems


damir52
SFRJ
Premium
join:2003-05-24

I bought 2 modems from Dave, he is 'OK'

Last time i bought a modem and adapter, it was left by the door while it was snowing last year, box was a little wet, and i was like damn, dude ............ hopefully this works lol

I waited like 48 hours before i turn it on
--
www.urimage.net - Free Image Hosting



firmware

@bell.ca
reply to TheZandrew

Yeah that's a terrible response from him, but in his defense I don't think it's just his firmware that has issues. It's not fair to say he's intentionally posting bad firmware.
When Technicolor sent us updated firmware for the 585v7 we had the same issue. Looking at that site it looks like ours was even newer but still had the same bug (we're on 8.2.7.7, speedtouch.ca has 8.2.4.B).

Our solution was to have Technicolor just disable WPS, you can do the same thing by running ":wireless wps config state=disabled" and ":saveall" through the CLI. You can make that persist through a reset if you copy your user.ini to isp.def.



upsidedown

@utoronto.ca

said by damir52:

it was left by the door while it was snowing last year, box was a little wet, and i was like damn, dude ............

Never had electronics arrive in the winter that's not double wrapped with plastic. That's a pretty shoddy job if you asked me.

said by firmware :

Yeah that's a terrible response from him, but in his defense I don't think it's just his firmware that has issues. It's not fair to say he's intentionally posting bad firmware.

Maybe not intentionally posting bad firmware, but not taking it down once knowing its bad, doesn't that prove his intentions?

To the OP, thanks for the heads up. I will be buying a TP-Link from a reputable place.

markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom
reply to TheZandrew

Ok, so now that "Dave" has spoken, here my dishonourable story about this individual/company.

I purchased a modem for another property of mine on August 1. Arrived the next day, so far so good. I didn't get around to setting up until August 9th. When I did, I ran into difficulty as it would not accept the default username/password to configure it. I called Teksavvy(the ISP for that property), I searched online (ended up incurring data charges on my cell plan as I had no internet at that location) and after about 2.5 hours of fighting with it, I packed it up, brought it back home and sent a late night email off to Dave asking for guidance.

After a short exchange of emails, when he realized it wouldn't reset he said "Ok. What is your order number? I will send out a replacement today. I will charge your card again until I receive the defective one back, then I will refund 100%. Thanks"

Based on our discussion and shipping timelines, I was likely to be out of town when it came, so we exchanged a few more troubleshooting ideas (reflash, reset, that sort of thing) I had already tried, but many required the password to get into config.

Anyways, we arranged a time to get the new one to me and so far everything was good. I had asked him to send a shipping label with the new one, but he did not. The new modem worked perfectly, so I just sucked up the return shipping cost and sent it back to him. He received it August 29.

A week later, on September 5th, I emailed to check on the refund status to which he replied "Did it last nite" - that was the full extent of the email. I replied thanking him and told him I would look for the credit.

Time passes, so last Thursday, I asked him to check on the refund again in case he credited another account. I told him that I didn't want to have to escalate this in that email. On that same day he replied "I will double check. I am sure I credited you. Stand by. Thx"

So far, ok.

Then this morning he emails me a fuzzy picture of the bottom of the modem, tells me there is "clearly water damage" and he won't refund me anymore.

There is a thermal sticker on the bottom of the modem (not the regular label) which has faded due to the heat the thing produces. I mentioned to him that this was caused by the heat to which he replied that heat rises, so it had to be water. Not getting too deep into a pissing match, I told him that it was caused by the conduction of the heat through the bottom of the modem as the modem was operating at high temperatures. The thing still boots, all the lights are on properly, you just can't get into the configuration because the password won't work. I've tried dozens of combinations on it too.

So, 3 weeks after receiving the modem, after telling me twice that he had refunded me, he has come up with a bogus claim and will "keep the modem for the credit card company to see when I challenge this". There was no water anywhere near the modem on my end, yet he has the gall to accuse me of sending him back a damaged product.

There is no honour in Dave from speedtouch.ca

He is the least professional person I have dealt with - the emails I exchange with family and friends don't even come close to the level of unprofessionalism shown by his one line responses, including things like "Kk".

I have spent more than enough time on this person and am just waiting for the credit card company to come through.

There are many better options online and in store of legitimate, reputable companies to deal with. If you deal with him, hopefully you get lucky. If he sends you a brick, don't bother sending it back, because not only are you out the cost of that brick, shipping it back and a new modem, you'll have all sorts of aggravation.

So far the one functioning Speedtouch 516 I have from Dave has cost me over $130 when you include the cost of the brick, shipping and the functioning modem.


markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom

I also just went back to their website.

Apparently they do store credit card info. I never had to give it to him a second time, yet he was able to charge me.

Also, "We offer a full 1 year advanced replacement warranty un-like any other retail site!" It is unlike any other retail site - they will take your money twice and accuse you of having damaged the product in ways that are false.



damir52
SFRJ
Premium
join:2003-05-24

In simple words, DO NOT BUY FROM DAVE !
--
www.urimage.net - Free Image Hosting


markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1

damir, I found your story interesting, especially considering about 2 hours later he was accusing me of water damaging products, even though he has no problem with his delivery people dropping them off in water.


daeron

join:2012-05-11
reply to markf

Actually from what I understand about the technology, the gateway actually issues a token, so the merchant never has your CC creds but can charge against this in the future. It's to protect in case there is a data breach etc.



challengthis

@stsn.com
reply to markf

Just call your CC company, you wont lose this. He claims water damage, but he also cant because of a few reasons.

1. He is a dealer, he can sub in any number of damaged modems at his disposal for this unscrupulous claim.
2. The ST516 has no water damage indicators, and the sticker on the bottom is plastic/foil. Only the manufacturer/ repair center can claim water damage.
3. Unless you specifically emailed "yes, you can charge my card for a second one in advance" or he recorded a conversation with you saying that, its an unauthorized charge. You could technically sue him for it.

I have ran into these merchants before, very typical of the scum class.

Use an AMEX in the future, their charge back system is brutal for the unscrupulous merchants.

Hope you win!


markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom

He did have my authorization for the second charge, but in the same sentence he promised a "100% refund" when he received the other one back.

I have called the CC company, just waiting for a call back today or tomorrow. The lady on the phone said it sounded pretty straight forward.

I will look into small claims if necessary, but I think the CC will take care of it without an issue.



upsidedown

@utoronto.ca

said by markf:

He did have my authorization for the second charge, but in the same sentence he promised a "100% refund" when he received the other one back.

I have called the CC company, just waiting for a call back today or tomorrow. The lady on the phone said it sounded pretty straight forward.

I will look into small claims if necessary, but I think the CC will take care of it without an issue.

So, how did it go?

markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1

CC company wants faxes of the emails where he said he'd give me my money back.

A bit of a pain to haul a phone line to my fax/printer, but I will have to do it in the next couple of days.



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Save the email to a PDF and then use www.faxzero.com to send it. They'll let you send up to three pages for free, but you can break up the emails into multiple separate faxes if you need to.


markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom

Click for full size
Thanks, I've tried that service, now I'll see what happens next.

Just for fun, let's play which is the water damaged modem.

Look at the pictures and tell me which one is "water damaged"

MajorPewPew

join:2010-09-19

said by markf:

Thanks, I've tried that service, now I'll see what happens next.

Just for fun, let's play which is the water damaged modem.

Look at the pictures and tell me which one is "water damaged"

So, whats the verdict? Did you put "Dave" in his rightful place?
--
Feel the SPEED, the SPEED!!!

markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom

The CC company will be issuing the chargeback within 3 business days.

I think knowing that over 1400 people have read about Dave thanks to the OP and my story is putting him in his place quite well.

Hopefully no one else has to experience Dave's customer "service" and they buy from reputable retailers instead.

You don't save buying Dave.


markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom
reply to TheZandrew

Click for full size
I thought I was done with Dave until he sent me another email. Very professional.

Not sure if he saw the postings here or just got his chargeback, but I stand by what I have said. He does not run a professional business and no reputable business owner would ever do something like this.

Oh wait, he could use the Jeff O'Neill "I was hacked" excuse or this is just another reason why I will avoid dealings with him in the future and hope that others take this as a warning of what happens if things go wrong with speedtouch.ca


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

Hah, that's pathetic. What a loser.



Upsidedown

@utoronto.ca
reply to markf

The 3rd Party ISPs should price match him, as "Dave" is obviously making money off of these sales. ISPs can most likely order more for a larger discount, sell it for the same price, and more people will buy them because of the support (any support vs zero from Dave). It'll teach "Dave" a very hard lesson.