SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature. Premium Member join:2000-08-05 united state |
Snakeoil
Premium Member
2012-Sep-15 12:49 pm
Why oh why so many updates? Why I "like" UbuntuI turned on my Ubuntu box this morning, and saw a few updates. I had a thought pop into my head that Ubuntu seems to get updated more often then my windows box. But also, despite the numerous updates, the Ubuntu box seems to be running at the same performance level as the first day of install.
Where as my windows box is slowing down after each update. It's at the point now where the drive is busy indicator is flashing every minute or so. I guess I should formate and reinstall windows and deal with at least a day or two of updates and reinstalling programs.
As for the amount of updates, it's not an issue. As I understand they are typically security fixes or software that needs updating. |
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bluedemonReduce blood pressure. Ignore trolls join:2000-07-29 Sunderland, MA |
Re: Why oh why so many updates? Why I "like" UbuntuYeah I have a thinkpad with both Mint and Windows Vista and have had it 3 years or so. Not only does the Windows partition run hot and slow with continual massive and annoying updates it is chewing up 25G for a minimal install. I only keep it for when I have to use the laptop for a presentation because the video drivers are better. The Mint partition updates a lot but rather quickly and unobtrusively. It runs much cooler and much faster and only chews up about 5G.
Windows is slowly dying. |
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Bill_MIBill In Michigan MVM join:2001-01-03 Royal Oak, MI TP-Link Archer C7 Linksys WRT54GS Linksys WRT54G v4
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1 recommendation |
to Snakeoil
There's a few things different about Ubuntu updates. 1) They're not on a monthly cycle like Microsoft does for IT professionals. They come whenever they are ready. This, by itself, can make it appear to be more often. 2) They're for the whole software repository, not just the operating system and/or MS products. Just my 2 cents. EDIT: Forgot about the last one with a recent example. We just had a BIND update that included 1/2 dozen packages - but all for the same "fix". Microsoft would have treated that as 1 update but Ubuntu looked like 6 updates. |
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lugnut
Anon
2012-Sep-15 9:12 pm
Yes and no. There's such a thing as TOO many updates. I have Kubuntu 12.04 installed on my main desktop with the KXStudio Addon Multimedia Environment. In the past two weeks I have had to deal with TWICE DAILY updates of JACK Audio about a dozen times. I'm all for bug fixes but TRY and get it right the first time fellahs... |
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to Snakeoil
Gentoo.. Well - you know. The reason we do this is to insure that our users have the best, latest, stable, and bug-free software possible. I know updates are sometimes a pain, but this just shows that techs are working hard for YOU! |
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to Snakeoil
Re: Why oh why so many updates? Why I "like" UbuntuThe worst I have ever had with opensuse updates, is an occasional error message (aka "dependency hell"). This is usually fixed within a few days.
Yes, I do remember an update to Icetea that broke java until they fixed it.
Updating in linux is a lot smoother than in Windows. Those annoying "restart your system to complete the update" messages are a great annoyance. |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX
1 recommendation |
to Snakeoil
Re: Why oh why so many updates? Why I "like" UbuntuUbuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft. |
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SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature. Premium Member join:2000-08-05 united state
1 recommendation |
Snakeoil
Premium Member
2012-Sep-16 8:22 pm
For those of us, whose linus foo is weak, Ubuntu is a good way to get exposed.
Many years ago, back when I owned a 486 PC, I tried Mandrake linux. It changed it's name a few years later. Anyhow, I was in over my head, and got frustrated with it.
Ubuntu on the other hand, as it matures/ages, seems to get easier to use.
I would like to learn how to do things the way the uber linux gurus do things, through the terminal. But, I find programming rather boring, and at times headache causing.
And I find it nothing like, or close to Microsoft. |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX |
XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-16 9:02 pm
said by Snakeoil:And I find it nothing like, or close to Microsoft. Click and go... click and go... |
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SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature. Premium Member join:2000-08-05 united state |
Snakeoil
Premium Member
2012-Sep-16 9:31 pm
So? If you such a linux uber, then why not host a skype chat and teach me how to use the linux terminal. I have found people willing to teach, but they charge monwy. And I don't have money.
I fail to understand why you find it necessary to troll the thread. |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX (Software) pfSense MikroTik CRS125-24G-1S-RM
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XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-16 9:48 pm
I am not trolling... just expressing how I feel about your thread "Linux and Microsoft". If people is charging you to teach you linux than you have bigger problems... I have help several users here in DSLR over remote sessions. I do not mind helping/teaching. But if you want me to help you... switch to a real Linux OS. IMOHO Ubuntu does nothing to help you learn Linux and that's my problem with Ubuntu. I know quite a few people who get stuck in this ubuntu limbo and have a hard time merging to other OS because of the complications "outside" the box... I just helped a friend install his nvidia card on his mint install... My recommendations to him after a few findings... Move away from this OS. When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell.... |
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jimkyleBtrieve Guy Premium Member join:2002-10-20 Oklahoma City, OK
1 recommendation |
jimkyle
Premium Member
2012-Sep-16 10:27 pm
said by XCOM:When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell.... So does this mean that you dislike Debian just as much? While they do handle runlevels during the boot process (as do all flavors of Ubuntu and Mint) they make no distinction between 2, 3, 4, and 5. All four of those do exactly the same thing. I agree that out of the box, Ubuntu itself is a bit TOO simplified and seems to be getting moreso at each 6-month upgrade. However under the hood it's simply Debian with a minimal amount of tweaking, and anyone who wants to actually learn POSIX-compliant systems be they BSD, Linux, or Unix itself, can do so on any distribution that complies with the standard. When you replace the current default GUI with one that's much less of a nanny (such as XFCE), you have a system that can do serious work easily. Of course, one could always go to LFS (Linux From Scratch) and build one's very own distribution. The author of LFS helped me greatly when I was stumbling through the help that Mandrake tried to give -- but I'd certainly hate to try to guide a newcomer through the agony of debugging one's own compiled-from-scratch kernel! |
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lugnut to XCOM
Anon
2012-Sep-16 10:37 pm
to XCOM
said by XCOM:said by Snakeoil:And I find it nothing like, or close to Microsoft. Click and go... click and go... If you prefer to run your desktop from a CLI might I suggest a C64 or an Apple IIE or even DOS 5.1? If you need to muiltitask, you could even run Desqview I'm old enough to remember when Linux was simply Linux and ran from a couple of floppies. And a heartless, kludgy, unforgiving bitch of an OS it was too. I make no apologies for using a *buntu. It's NOT M$ and it gets the job done as easily as possible. That's WHY computers were invented in the first place. To make difficult jobs easier |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX (Software) pfSense MikroTik CRS125-24G-1S-RM
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XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-17 8:15 am
said by lugnut :said by XCOM:said by Snakeoil:And I find it nothing like, or close to Microsoft. Click and go... click and go... If you prefer to run your desktop from a CLI might I suggest a C64 or an Apple IIE or even DOS 5.1? If you need to muiltitask, you could even run Desqview I'm old enough to remember when Linux was simply Linux and ran from a couple of floppies. And a heartless, kludgy, unforgiving bitch of an OS it was too. I make no apologies for using a *buntu. It's NOT M$ and it gets the job done as easily as possible. That's WHY computers were invented in the first place. To make difficult jobs easier Linux is not about running a terminal. You only assumed that. When I say click and go I mean they give you the power to work the terminal. Learn how to grow from a user to your own administrator. |
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XCOM |
to jimkyle
said by jimkyle:said by XCOM:When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell.... So does this mean that you dislike Debian just as much? While they do handle runlevels during the boot process (as do all flavors of Ubuntu and Mint) they make no distinction between 2, 3, 4, and 5. All four of those do exactly the same thing. I agree that out of the box, Ubuntu itself is a bit TOO simplified and seems to be getting moreso at each 6-month upgrade. However under the hood it's simply Debian with a minimal amount of tweaking, and anyone who wants to actually learn POSIX-compliant systems be they BSD, Linux, or Unix itself, can do so on any distribution that complies with the standard. When you replace the current default GUI with one that's much less of a nanny (such as XFCE), you have a system that can do serious work easily. Of course, one could always go to LFS (Linux From Scratch) and build one's very own distribution. The author of LFS helped me greatly when I was stumbling through the help that Mandrake tried to give -- but I'd certainly hate to try to guide a newcomer through the agony of debugging one's own compiled-from-scratch kernel! Funny you say that. I actually dont hate Debian. I like Debian I used Debian up too 4.0.... And I know that the underneath OS is Debian. Back when I used Debian dropping X was not an issue. Dropping to runlevel 3 (no X running) was a simple task. Now this new OS make you go through Hell to try and get a simple shell. O wait hold on X died we need to respawn!. su - worked as it should sudo was an option and was not mandatory. I was not forced to be a user.... To me any OS that dictates what you should do or be is out for me. That's just the way I feel. I have the control and I tell it what I need. The system works for me... I don't for work for it. I don't need automation of package's. I want to understand what library I need and why. I want to run ./configure, make, make install and see it compiled and work how it should. At the end that's what make Linux beautiful |
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scrummie02Bentley Premium Member join:2004-04-16 Arlington, VA
1 recommendation |
to XCOM
said by XCOM:I am not trolling... just expressing how I feel about your thread "Linux and Microsoft". If people is charging you to teach you linux than you have bigger problems... I have help several users here in DSLR over remote sessions. I do not mind helping/teaching. But if you want me to help you... switch to a real Linux OS.
IMOHO Ubuntu does nothing to help you learn Linux and that's my problem with Ubuntu. I know quite a few people who get stuck in this ubuntu limbo and have a hard time merging to other OS because of the complications "outside" the box...
I just helped a friend install his nvidia card on his mint install... My recommendations to him after a few findings... Move away from this OS. When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell....
What is a "real" Linux OS? CentOS? Redhat? Slackware? LFS? Why not drop that and get a "real OS" like FreeBSD or HP/UX or AIX - hell screw them even, go Plan9. That's a rather arrogant comment to make |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX |
XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-17 10:21 am
Mhhhh I guess it is. |
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MaxoYour tax dollars at work. Premium Member join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL |
Maxo
Premium Member
2012-Sep-17 12:00 pm
said by XCOM:Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft. said by XCOM:I am not trolling Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling. |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX (Software) pfSense MikroTik CRS125-24G-1S-RM
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XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-17 1:28 pm
said by Maxo:said by XCOM:Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft. said by XCOM:I am not trolling Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling. I am sorry but I fail to see how. It all started with this Ubuntu is better than Microsoft. |
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said by XCOM:said by Maxo:said by XCOM:Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft. said by XCOM:I am not trolling Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling. I am sorry but I fail to see how. It all started with this Ubuntu is better than Microsoft. The correct answer is, the best OS is the one that's right for you. For lots of people, it's Windows, for many, it's Ubuntu, for others, it may be Slackware. And the OP was giving his opinion on why he finds Ubuntu is right for him. |
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signmeuptoo94Bless you Howie Premium Member join:2001-11-22 NanoParticle |
This!
Not everyone is smart in the same things. And while I understand xcom's comments, and appreciate how he/she feels, it does seem afield of the OP's focus.
Look at cars. Some will say a car with an automatic tranny is not a real car. Whatev. The world is full of variety and any OS pluralistic enough to come in various distros to suite various types of people is a OS for me. |
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MaxoYour tax dollars at work. Premium Member join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL |
Maxo to XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-17 2:25 pm
to XCOM
said by XCOM:said by Maxo:said by XCOM:Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft. said by XCOM:I am not trolling Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling. I am sorry but I fail to see how. It all started with this Ubuntu is better than Microsoft. Perhaps in the light of comparing OSes then I may have mispoke. I think the benefits that Snakeoil was toting really aren't benefits of Ubuntu necessarily, but are common among Linux distributions with a proper package management system. It would certainly be more constructive to note that the same benefits exist for a wide variety of Linux distributions, then to engage in the hyperbole innate in comparing a popular open-source Linux flavor that is developed in an open environment, to a company that produces proprietary software developed in a traditional closed environment. |
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to Maxo
said by Maxo:said by XCOM:Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft. said by XCOM:I am not trolling Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling. If anyone replied in kind on the Microsoft forum the post would be deleted immediately. |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX |
XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-17 5:29 pm
Well this the Unix forum singmeuptoo & Maxo.. Got it.... Ill just stand down before I get burned. |
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El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador Premium Member join:2008-04-28 Tronna |
to howardfine
said by howardfine:If anyone replied in kind on the Microsoft forum the post would be deleted immediately. Even though comments towards the OP were trollish, I think most people here are friendly enough and smart enough to "sort it out" without a lot of mod intervention. The Microsoft forum probably has 10 if not 100 times the posters that this forum does, making a hard stance practically required. |
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El Quintron |
to XCOM
said by XCOM:Well this the Unix forum
singmeuptoo & Maxo..
Got it.... Ill just stand down before I get burned. No worries. I don't think your comments were malicious and I don't think anyone else here included the OP took much offense. I'm not a veteran of this forum so I can't speak for way back, but I've seen much worse flame wars than what just happened here. |
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XCOMdigitalnUll Premium Member join:2002-06-10 Spring, TX (Software) pfSense MikroTik CRS125-24G-1S-RM
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XCOM
Premium Member
2012-Sep-17 5:36 pm
said by El Quintron:said by XCOM:Well this the Unix forum
singmeuptoo & Maxo..
Got it.... Ill just stand down before I get burned. No worries. I don't think your comments were malicious and I don't think anyone else here included the OP took much offense. I'm not a veteran of this forum so I can't speak for way back, but I've seen much worse flame wars than what just happened here. Truly I was not.. I was just expressing how I felt and my point of view on the matter... I guess some did take it a bit personal and I am standing down Take care! |
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SnakeoilIgnore Button. The coward's feature. Premium Member join:2000-08-05 united state |
Snakeoil
Premium Member
2012-Sep-18 6:37 am
It's all good, no worries. Opinions appreciated. One day, when I get a spare PC, I'll be willing to try a different Distro, and try learning more about the terminal. |
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scrummie02Bentley Premium Member join:2004-04-16 Arlington, VA |
You don't need a spare PC, run KVM or virtualbox on your machine now and you can deploy an instance of another distro or even a different OS such as FreeBSD or OpenBSD or a Solaris based OS.
Ubuntu/Debian are fine to learn CLI if you want. CentOS might help more since a lot of companies use Redhat and CentOS is pretty darn close.
That being said, if you feel the need to download and compile software from source you can do that with Ubuntu just as much as the other Linux distros if you want.
Also "Linux in a nutshell" and some O'rielly shell scripting books are also good.
Your local community college no doubt has an intro to UNIX type class to help as well. |
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MaxoYour tax dollars at work. Premium Member join:2002-11-04 Tallahassee, FL |
to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:I'll be willing to try a different Distro, and try learning more about the terminal. While I would strongly encourage trying out various distros, you don't need to leave Ubuntu to learn Linux. Despite what some will tell you, unlike Windows everything under Ubuntu's hood is available for poking, prodding, and modding. The easiest way, IMHO, is to setup a server and get it doing things like file and print sharing, data backups, etc. Practical things help give learning a reason. |
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