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XCOM
digitalnUll
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reply to Snakeoil

Re: Why oh why so many updates? Why I "like" Ubuntu

I am not trolling... just expressing how I feel about your thread "Linux and Microsoft". If people is charging you to teach you linux than you have bigger problems...
I have help several users here in DSLR over remote sessions. I do not mind helping/teaching. But if you want me to help you... switch to a real Linux OS.

IMOHO Ubuntu does nothing to help you learn Linux and that's my problem with Ubuntu. I know quite a few people who get stuck in this ubuntu limbo and have a hard time merging to other OS because of the complications "outside" the box...

I just helped a friend install his nvidia card on his mint install... My recommendations to him after a few findings... Move away from this OS. When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell....

--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


jimkyle
Btrieve Guy
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said by XCOM:

When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell....

So does this mean that you dislike Debian just as much? While they do handle runlevels during the boot process (as do all flavors of Ubuntu and Mint) they make no distinction between 2, 3, 4, and 5. All four of those do exactly the same thing.

I agree that out of the box, Ubuntu itself is a bit TOO simplified and seems to be getting moreso at each 6-month upgrade. However under the hood it's simply Debian with a minimal amount of tweaking, and anyone who wants to actually learn POSIX-compliant systems be they BSD, Linux, or Unix itself, can do so on any distribution that complies with the standard. When you replace the current default GUI with one that's much less of a nanny (such as XFCE), you have a system that can do serious work easily.

Of course, one could always go to LFS (Linux From Scratch) and build one's very own distribution. The author of LFS helped me greatly when I was stumbling through the help that Mandrake tried to give -- but I'd certainly hate to try to guide a newcomer through the agony of debugging one's own compiled-from-scratch kernel!
--
Jim Kyle


XCOM
digitalnUll
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said by jimkyle:

said by XCOM:

When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell....

So does this mean that you dislike Debian just as much? While they do handle runlevels during the boot process (as do all flavors of Ubuntu and Mint) they make no distinction between 2, 3, 4, and 5. All four of those do exactly the same thing.

I agree that out of the box, Ubuntu itself is a bit TOO simplified and seems to be getting moreso at each 6-month upgrade. However under the hood it's simply Debian with a minimal amount of tweaking, and anyone who wants to actually learn POSIX-compliant systems be they BSD, Linux, or Unix itself, can do so on any distribution that complies with the standard. When you replace the current default GUI with one that's much less of a nanny (such as XFCE), you have a system that can do serious work easily.

Of course, one could always go to LFS (Linux From Scratch) and build one's very own distribution. The author of LFS helped me greatly when I was stumbling through the help that Mandrake tried to give -- but I'd certainly hate to try to guide a newcomer through the agony of debugging one's own compiled-from-scratch kernel!

Funny you say that. I actually dont hate Debian. I like Debian I used Debian up too 4.0.... And I know that the underneath OS is Debian. Back when I used Debian dropping X was not an issue. Dropping to runlevel 3 (no X running) was a simple task. Now this new OS make you go through Hell to try and get a simple shell. O wait hold on X died we need to respawn!. su - worked as it should sudo was an option and was not mandatory. I was not forced to be a user.... To me any OS that dictates what you should do or be is out for me.
That's just the way I feel. I have the control and I tell it what I need. The system works for me... I don't for work for it. I don't need automation of package's. I want to understand what library I need and why. I want to run ./configure, make, make install and see it compiled and work how it should. At the end that's what make Linux beautiful
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


scrummie02
Bentley
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reply to XCOM
said by XCOM:

I am not trolling... just expressing how I feel about your thread "Linux and Microsoft". If people is charging you to teach you linux than you have bigger problems...
I have help several users here in DSLR over remote sessions. I do not mind helping/teaching. But if you want me to help you... switch to a real Linux OS.

IMOHO Ubuntu does nothing to help you learn Linux and that's my problem with Ubuntu. I know quite a few people who get stuck in this ubuntu limbo and have a hard time merging to other OS because of the complications "outside" the box...

I just helped a friend install his nvidia card on his mint install... My recommendations to him after a few findings... Move away from this OS. When an OS is telling you that you don't need runlevels you are in a straight path to hell....

What is a "real" Linux OS? CentOS? Redhat? Slackware? LFS? Why not drop that and get a "real OS" like FreeBSD or HP/UX or AIX - hell screw them even, go Plan9.

That's a rather arrogant comment to make
--
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XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
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Spring, TX
Mhhhh I guess it is.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Maxo
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said by XCOM:

Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft.

said by XCOM:

I am not trolling

Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling.


XCOM
digitalnUll
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said by Maxo:

said by XCOM:

Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft.

said by XCOM:

I am not trolling

Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling.

I am sorry but I fail to see how. It all started with this Ubuntu is better than Microsoft.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$

grunze510

join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1
said by XCOM:

said by Maxo:

said by XCOM:

Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft.

said by XCOM:

I am not trolling

Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling.

I am sorry but I fail to see how. It all started with this Ubuntu is better than Microsoft.

The correct answer is, the best OS is the one that's right for you. For lots of people, it's Windows, for many, it's Ubuntu, for others, it may be Slackware. And the OP was giving his opinion on why he finds Ubuntu is right for him.


signmeuptoo
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NanoParticle
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This!

Not everyone is smart in the same things. And while I understand xcom's comments, and appreciate how he/she feels, it does seem afield of the OP's focus.

Look at cars. Some will say a car with an automatic tranny is not a real car. Whatev. The world is full of variety and any OS pluralistic enough to come in various distros to suite various types of people is a OS for me.
--
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Maxo
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reply to XCOM
said by XCOM:

said by Maxo:

said by XCOM:

Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft.

said by XCOM:

I am not trolling

Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling.

I am sorry but I fail to see how. It all started with this Ubuntu is better than Microsoft.

Perhaps in the light of comparing OSes then I may have mispoke. I think the benefits that Snakeoil See Profile was toting really aren't benefits of Ubuntu necessarily, but are common among Linux distributions with a proper package management system.
It would certainly be more constructive to note that the same benefits exist for a wide variety of Linux distributions, then to engage in the hyperbole innate in comparing a popular open-source Linux flavor that is developed in an open environment, to a company that produces proprietary software developed in a traditional closed environment.
--
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howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
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reply to Maxo
said by Maxo:

said by XCOM:

Ubuntu is a bastardized linux version of Microsoft.

said by XCOM:

I am not trolling

Posting an off topic criticism which can only lead to the degradation of the thread away from the help the user sought is trolling.

If anyone replied in kind on the Microsoft forum the post would be deleted immediately.


XCOM
digitalnUll
Premium
join:2002-06-10
Spring, TX
Well this the Unix forum

singmeuptoo & Maxo..

Got it.... Ill just stand down before I get burned.
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


El Quintron
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reply to howardfine
said by howardfine:

If anyone replied in kind on the Microsoft forum the post would be deleted immediately.

Even though comments towards the OP were trollish, I think most people here are friendly enough and smart enough to "sort it out" without a lot of mod intervention.

The Microsoft forum probably has 10 if not 100 times the posters that this forum does, making a hard stance practically required.
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El Quintron
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reply to XCOM
said by XCOM:

Well this the Unix forum

singmeuptoo & Maxo..

Got it.... Ill just stand down before I get burned.

No worries.

I don't think your comments were malicious and I don't think anyone else here included the OP took much offense. I'm not a veteran of this forum so I can't speak for way back, but I've seen much worse flame wars than what just happened here.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


XCOM
digitalnUll
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said by El Quintron:

said by XCOM:

Well this the Unix forum

singmeuptoo & Maxo..

Got it.... Ill just stand down before I get burned.

No worries.

I don't think your comments were malicious and I don't think anyone else here included the OP took much offense. I'm not a veteran of this forum so I can't speak for way back, but I've seen much worse flame wars than what just happened here.

Truly I was not.. I was just expressing how I felt and my point of view on the matter... I guess some did take it a bit personal and I am standing down

Take care!
--
[nUll@dcypher ~]$


Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
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It's all good, no worries. Opinions appreciated. One day, when I get a spare PC, I'll be willing to try a different Distro, and try learning more about the terminal.
--
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scrummie02
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Arlington, VA
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You don't need a spare PC, run KVM or virtualbox on your machine now and you can deploy an instance of another distro or even a different OS such as FreeBSD or OpenBSD or a Solaris based OS.

Ubuntu/Debian are fine to learn CLI if you want. CentOS might help more since a lot of companies use Redhat and CentOS is pretty darn close.

That being said, if you feel the need to download and compile software from source you can do that with Ubuntu just as much as the other Linux distros if you want.

Also "Linux in a nutshell" and some O'rielly shell scripting books are also good.

Your local community college no doubt has an intro to UNIX type class to help as well.
--
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General Welfare


Maxo
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reply to Snakeoil
said by Snakeoil:

I'll be willing to try a different Distro, and try learning more about the terminal.

While I would strongly encourage trying out various distros, you don't need to leave Ubuntu to learn Linux. Despite what some will tell you, unlike Windows everything under Ubuntu's hood is available for poking, prodding, and modding.
The easiest way, IMHO, is to setup a server and get it doing things like file and print sharing, data backups, etc. Practical things help give learning a reason.
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter

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Snakeoil
Ignore Button. The coward's feature.
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quote:
setup a server and get it doing things like file and print sharing, data backups

That would be interesting. I've never tried setting up/managing a server.
Wouldn't I need a large Hard drive? my current one is small. I do have an old P3 600 in my basement that is doing nothing. It has a bad video card [graphics are blurry] and I'm to cheap to buy a new one. I could use that machine as an experiment. Though I'd need a wifi card, or I could set it up by the router and access it remotely and run it that way.
Hmm.. I'll have to check that computer out.
--
Is a person a failure for doing nothing? Or is he a failure for trying, and not succeeding at what he is attempting to do? What did you fail at today?.


jimkyle
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reply to Maxo
Well, almost everything, anyway...

Right now I'm trying to find out how to change the theme for the "gdm" display manager in Xubuntu 12.04.1, where the default display manager was changed to lightdm, and I've installed XFCE's version 4.10 which is not the default for the distro I am using.

So far, everything I have found when searching, both in the Ubuntu forums and using Google to search the entire web, seems to be obsolete -- none of it appears to apply to the system that I've configured here.

I suspect that there have been too many simultaneous version upgrades involved: GTK from 2.x to 3.x, XFCE from 4.8 to 4.10, gdm replaced by lightdm, and on top of this most how-tos are for Unity, not XFCE. Anybody got any ideas of where to start digging?
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Maxo
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reply to Snakeoil
If you where doing file backups then you'll need a hard drive large enough to support the data you are backing up. A terabyte USB drive can be had for ~$100, and smaller hard drives are even cheaper.


Maxo
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reply to jimkyle
I played around with GDM customization in the past. IIRC there's an XML file that drives it. Perhaps »www.webupd8.org/2011/05/change-g···ntu.html or »wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GDM may have some clues.


scrummie02
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reply to Snakeoil
It might be slow, but you can do it. Download ubuntu server version and install it on the p300. No GUI by default on the server installs so you'll have to do CLI for everything.

You should be able to set up an nginx web server, samba server, ldap or whatever.

HDD would be dependent on how much data you want to store. most ubunut/debian base installs are pretty small.
--
"He's a politician. It's like being a hooker. You can't be one unless you can pretend to like people while you're f*cking them."
General Welfare


jimkyle
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reply to Maxo
Thanks for responding! I've seen posts elsewhere that gnome-tweaker doesn't work with the 12.04 release but I'll see what I can find in the way of xml files in the /usr tree...

The reason I'm trying to use gdm is that lightdm has a bug that leaves a zombie process at each login. It's been reported, and fixed for the 12.10 release, but not yet corrected for 12.04. I put a comment about that on the bug report earlier today (pointing out that it needs to be backported to the LTS version) and got an almost immediate response, so hopefully there will be an update soon to fix lightdm and I won't need to mess with gdm any more...
--
Jim Kyle