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The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Denver, CO

The Limit to JALevinworth

Premium Member

to JALevinworth

Re: No Facebook at work? I'll look elsewhere...

In other words, taking breaks or lunch is considered unproductive.

Your logic is flawed. Doing a work related task != productivity.

However, doing a work related task efficiently and effectively == productivity. If all work is completed, then what work related tasks are left? Being busy for the sake of productivity != productivity.

Name Game
Premium Member
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI

Name Game

Premium Member

I think some work environments are changing..I even know of a few companies who have computers in the break rooms for employees to do their personal business..affording them this so they have less need to use their workstations for personal business..

JALevinworth
@embarqhsd.net

JALevinworth to The Limit

Anon

to The Limit
said by JALevinworth :

doing a work-related task == producing work
producing work == productivity at work

doing a non-work-related task == not producing work
Not producing work == non-productivity at work

said by The Limit:

In other words, taking breaks or lunch is considered unproductive.

Your logic is flawed. Doing a work related task != productivity.

However, doing a work related task efficiently and effectively == productivity. If all work is completed, then what work related tasks are left? Being busy for the sake of productivity != productivity.

Taking a break or lunch is of course not on work time. You're not being paid to work then.

My logic is not flawed to me, it's flawed to you. We have differences of opinion about work.

As dave was just saying, and see my reply - Of course there are different levels of jobs that are structured different. It's not one size fits all as careers and jobs go. Some have more latitude than others depending on type.

You can certainly earn the privilege to have that latitude, but it's not a right.

Requiring personal facebook access as a job seeker seems to fall into believing it's a right.

IMHO - you certainly can disagree.

-Jim
2012-09-20 14:20:22

The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Denver, CO

The Limit

Premium Member

I'm certainly not trying to say that Facebook is a requirement, it's just another X for people to exercise their self discipline, or lack thereof.

My argument here is that Facebook isn't the problem, being lazy and lacking self discipline is the problem.

For future reference, I've worked at places where lunch was paid. It was a nice incentive, but not a requirement. Our work values differ in that actually "working" towards completing a task efficiently is work vs looking busy, which is more unproductive than sitting around and browsing the web.
The Limit

The Limit to JALevinworth

Premium Member

to JALevinworth
And if taking breaks and going on lunch aren't on company time, then should completing tasks that your boss asks you to do while on lunch or break considered work? I think it is.

JALevinworth
@embarqhsd.net

JALevinworth

Anon

If a person has done all their work and still getting paid then maybe they need to ask for more work.

I agree people shouldn't do things to "look busy". They should be busy with work.

My comments thus far aren't personal, and not aimed at you. It's just a discussion, you know? We're talking about people requiring facebook at work. Requiring is the operative word. I already acknowledged and agree that different jobs have different environments. I get yours may be different, but it's not about you and your particular job. It's about a single item (facebook) being a blanket requirement applied to a broad spectrum of jobs, and I say that because the stat is 1 in 5.

2012-09-20 15:57:06

The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Denver, CO

The Limit

Premium Member

I see, then we are in agreement it seems.

I just get frustrated when I see people making aimed accusations against college grads, which the accusation in question isn't true.

College is more difficult than holding a job down IMO. I worked full time for a while, and having a job is way easier than the work I'm doing now. I struggle to pass some of the Abstract exams that I take (case in point, I have one tomorrow, and my instructor is requiring us to know information that we just finished covering yesterday and finishing a complex homework on top of the exam, and said homework will be on the exam).

I'm not having a great week, and unfortunately my instructor is the cause of it. Disorganized, scatterbrained, inconsistent, etc. It almost convinces me that formal education is really not worth the effort when I could be teaching myself (which is what I'm doing), but I have two semester left. Might as well just swallow the bitter pill and get it over with. Frustrating, because I love academia.

rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium Member
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA

rcdailey to The Limit

Premium Member

to The Limit
That sort of thing happens all the time. If you "volunteer" to do company work on your own time, then don't complain.

As for all this Facebook stuff, many companies and organizations use Facebook in the course of their activities, so that makes Facebook part of their business. That further complicates the issue, doesn't it?
dave
Premium Member
join:2000-05-04
not in ohio

dave

Premium Member

It's no "volunteering" per se, at least not in my case. In some sense it's an acceptance of the modern employment condition, but the quid-pro-quo is that we don't have employers watching every minute of the day. Gain: loose hours. Loss: loose hours.

FWIW, I was working throughout today. At home. So the chances of my employer preventing me accessing my non-existing Facebook account were zero. I understand that not everyone (a) has a job that even could work like this - the furniture-factory guy is a good example, (b) has employers that see the world like this. But we could do without people claiming we're pampered, lazy, etc.

Thanks for listening.

JALevinworth
@embarqhsd.net

JALevinworth to The Limit

Anon

to The Limit
said by The Limit:

I see, then we are in agreement it seems.

I had a feeling we weren't that far off.
said by The Limit:

I just get frustrated when I see people making aimed accusations against college grads, which the accusation in question isn't true.

I didn't see the part in the article about this being aimed at college grads, but if I missed it up thread, I'm sorry. FWIW I wasn't thinking of college grads myself.

I understand your sensitivity, though. I have one in college now and another one heading there. In many ways I can't compare my time in college to now. The costs are even more outrageous, the economy and outlook for college grads wasn't as bleak, and therefore that pressure is higher - yet, like so many groups these days, just being in the group you're stereotyped. "kids these days" - As generations before, My generation was once called that too.

I too get annoyed at some of the things said about students and post-grads because I know how very hard mine have worked to get where they are and they are just starting out. Hard work has been clearly instilled in them, and lack of entitlement has too. I can't speak for all kids of course and some may not have these values - same as some adults.
said by The Limit:

College is more difficult than holding a job down IMO.

I believe that's the case for you. But I will offer that there are people who have done both and their job was the harder one. It depends on the job too - And THAT brings our discussion full circle.

Good luck with your studies and thanks for engaging with me.

-Jim
2012-09-20 21:36:54

Frank
Premium Member
join:2000-11-03
somewhere

Frank to JALevinworth

Premium Member

to JALevinworth
said by JALevinworth :

said by JALevinworth :

doing a work-related task == producing work
producing work == productivity at work

doing a non-work-related task == not producing work
Not producing work == non-productivity at work

said by The Limit:

In other words, taking breaks or lunch is considered unproductive.

Your logic is flawed. Doing a work related task != productivity.

However, doing a work related task efficiently and effectively == productivity. If all work is completed, then what work related tasks are left? Being busy for the sake of productivity != productivity.

Taking a break or lunch is of course not on work time. You're not being paid to work then.

My logic is not flawed to me, it's flawed to you. We have differences of opinion about work.

As dave was just saying, and see my reply - Of course there are different levels of jobs that are structured different. It's not one size fits all as careers and jobs go. Some have more latitude than others depending on type.

You can certainly earn the privilege to have that latitude, but it's not a right.

Requiring personal facebook access as a job seeker seems to fall into believing it's a right.

IMHO - you certainly can disagree.

-Jim
2012-09-20 14:20:22

The thing is..........nobody should ever want skilled employees to be producing work 100% of the time, ALL THE TIME, because it accounts for micromanaging, poor planning and is virtually setting up a department to fail.

In other words, If you have skilled employees and they are working every second of the day (with the exception of lunch and two 15 minute breaks) then they wont have time to train on new things and a few people calling out sick or anybody taking a vacation will throw a monkey wrench into the department's workload. Eventually.... the more talented staff will quit and move on to greener pastures due to burnout which will make things worse.

Of course..... you can attempt to replace the people who quit, but while you're in the process of doing that your current resources will be strained significantly causing even more burnout and worse work output. Unlike unskilled employees, It can take weeks to find the right person with the right experience for a high-skill job and months to train them (which is time the current staff wont have time to do very well).

How does this relate to facebook? It's pretty simple... There has to be a balance. In other words, we're all adults, as long as a reasonable expectation is set and everybody does their work then everything is peachy, morale is high, and nobody cares if an employee does some occasional web surfing. If someone is slacking and not doing their job then they get fired and there are resources available to comfortably cover the work while a replacement is being found. If an emergency occurs and a few employees cant make it to work then it doesn't throw a monkey wrench into the operation of the department because it can still operate at 100% capacity if needed.

JALevinworth
@embarqhsd.net

JALevinworth

Anon

I agree with all that specifically related to skilled office professionals that you describe.

Since the topic is, per the article, that 1-5 job seekers wouldn't take a job without access to facebook; I wonder how many employers would reject a candidate that made that inquiry in the interview? I have a feeling higher than 1-5. I could be wrong or it could be double that.

Signing off..

-Jim

The Limit
Premium Member
join:2007-09-25
Denver, CO

The Limit to JALevinworth

Premium Member

to JALevinworth
It wasn't, someone had posted something idiotic about how college students are lazy and usually unemployed.

I would jump at a job in a second if that meant that I could continue in my studies while working. Being a math major, I don't have that option. I literally spend my entire day on campus, and I am swamped. What breaks I take set me behind in SOME class, and it's usually the one that this particular instructor has scheduled to be "let's take an exam on Friday, and then have a mathematical proof paper that usually takes about 4-5 pages of math symbols to write due in a week, and then a quiz that following monday, and then a homework that spans 4-5 pages two days after the quiz, and then the final corrections due two days after that."

This instructor is terrible with keeping a schedule, and contradicts herself when she wants us to be particular, but the solutions that she posts after we have turned in said homework are all shorthand and sloppy, and in some places not copied well.

I am not dropping the class, this is not an option. I want to get out of this class with a passing grade, and if that means a C, then that's what I'll accept I guess. I'm working 4 times as hard to make up for her mistakes.

rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium Member
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA

rcdailey to dave

Premium Member

to dave
I have a Facebook account, but I go there very infrequently. OTOH, I go to this site on a daily basis, mostly for useful information, but I also make comments, which probably is a waste of time. I certainly have seen employees using company equipment during lunch hours, but that is approved by the owner of the business.