Technical > Home Improvement > Anyone have a suggestion for standby whole home generator?

Anyone have a suggestion for standby whole home generator?

Generacs are fine. If you want to hold off on the generator purchase, have them install "generator ready" load centers. They are made by Siemens / Murray. They are a little nicer than the giant box ATS.

A liquid cooled generator will outlast an air cooled generator, but there is significant additional expense.

High end generators are going to be Kohler or Onan. Just under that Cutler-Hammer. Then comes Siemens, Generac, and Guardian (all made by the same company).

With a 20 kW set, fuel source is going to be a major consideration. Will you have propane available (250-500 gal tank)? Will the gas company be able to supply enough NG? I've had plenty of people ready to buy, but the gas company simply could not meet the demand without re-piping the whole street.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

So do Ford and Chevy, but they get people to work every day.

reply to pandora
You may want to get the propane company involved to make sure the 500 gal propane tank will have enough surface area on the liquid propane to boil off enough gas to supply that kind of load.

It should work but I would ask someone just to be sure.
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

reply to pandora
Maybe you should consider a diesel generator since gas is not available there if you want to power such a large load. One of the drawbacks though is fuel storage

Powering 400 amps off of an LP generator is a large load and will burn through a tank of propane pretty quickly. Maybe you could decide which circuits you absolutely have to power (such as fridge, lights, heat/AC, etc) so you can go with a smaller generator and your propane supply will last longer.

I personally went the portable generator/manual transfer switch route since I don't have a gas line coming in, nor do I have propane (other than enough to power a gas grill). Everything in this house is electric (including heat, which is expensive). The circuits I am powering with the generator is the fridge, downstairs heat, interior lights (including the circuit that powers medical equipment most importantly), an most of the wall sockets (TVs, computers, and window A/C units). Everything else, water heater, stove, microwave, washer/dryer, upstairs heat, and garbage disposal will be non-functional during a power outage.

Fortunately we have city water (no well pump) and we do not have a leaky basement (no sump pump required).

I bought the generator during the October snowstorm and waited a good two hours in line. Lowes had a shipment of 800 generators that day and they had 46 left by the time it was my turn. I bought it sight unseen. Of course the lights came on a couple of hours later after being out three days (did not have to use generator). Had I not bought the generator, I'd would have been out a good two weeks.
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I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).

reply to pandora
Since you are planning on installing a propane fueled generator, if you plan on replacing many of your appliances including the space and water heating system, calculate the annual cost to operate propane and electrically fueled equipment. If the cost is close between the two, then consider replacing your water heater, range, dryer and space heating system with propane fueled appliances. Remember the cost of electricity is regulated and the cost of propane is not so it is difficult to predict the future operating cost of propane fueled appliances.

By using propane fueled appliances you can reduce the load and required capacity of your generator. I was advised by an acquaintance who owns an all electric home and has a 20 KW air cooled Generac Generator that it uses from 30 to 35 Gallons of propane a day if operated continuously. Consider run time and how many days it would take for your propane supplier to refill your tank in the event of some kind of catastrophe that results in a long term power outage. Buy your propane tank rather than renting it so you can purchase propane from the dealer with the best price. Keep copies of the receipt for you tank handy if you change propane suppliers because most suppliers require that you prove that you own the tank and not rent it.

Here is a packaged Briggs and Stratton Generator which includes a transfer switch for a split 400 AMP Service Entrance:

»www.norwall.com/products/Briggs-···ATS.html

Remember a 400 AMP Service Entrance can handle a load up to 96 Kilowatts. The generator included in the package can supply 20 Kilowatts.

The 400A service is probably really a 320A service, and probably overkill. Most POCO's across the nation stop at 320A single phase service. After that, you're paying for 3 phase or forced to work within the confines of the 320A single phase.

We don't know anything about the demand of the OP's house, so it's tough to speculate.

I will say, it's better to limit the number of items you'll be running on generator power and get a smaller generator. But, it's a persons prerogative to say, "by God, I want everything to work seamlessly when the power is out!". I just wouldn't want to pay their propane bill.

OP, if your house is still in the construction phase you should probably do some quick research on propane appliances if you are going to have a tank installed anyway.
Quite often, even propane beats operating costs of electric heating appliances. Electric resistance heat is very inefficient.

As an example, I just installed a 12 kW set for a rural customer on LP gas (500 gal buried tank). Their furnaces are LP backup, with heatpumps. In normal operation, when the heatpumps can't keep up, the LP furnace kicks in.
We set up the ATS contactor to prevent the heat pump from running at all when on generator power. It goes into "Emergency Heat" and only runs the LP furnaces. This is all done LV with the thermostat. A significant load reduction which allowed them to downsize the generator considerably.

I have all gas heating appliances except the range. I can run my entire house comfortably on 6 kW. Sure, there's no A/C, but fans are better than what my neighbors have (big fat 0).
We can only run one burner on the range, but that's a small inconvenience. In the winter, I'm nice and toasty at home. They are in a hotel or Aunt Mabel's basement while the pipes are freezing and bursting back at their house.

Someone posted a link to Norwall above. I like them and have purchased from them in the past. They are often cheaper than local wholesalers, even with shipping.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

reply to pandora
as far as the computers, and any medical stuff invest in a few good quality ups that can handle the varying power quality of whatever generator you choose.

with regards to the rest of the house I would figure out what you could live without if main power is out ..as in do you really need lights in the bedroom at night when the power is out, can you live without the blender.. you get the point

on generator power this should be what's important:
food - so fridge
water - if you have a well
heat or cooling - depends on where you are
cooking

then the few luxury's :
hot water
your living room
basic lighting so you can see

... so if that 20K air cooled Generac will handle all that and more then, there you go

also find out how much fuel it uses per day based upon your load calculations for the stuff above and you will know how big a propane tank you might need

good luck with your renovation.

and as they usually say around here
PICS PLEASE

reply to nunya

Nitpick of nitpick of nitpick....

If the genny is installed in the basement, then all that "inefficiency" goes somewhere, i.e. into heating the surrounding air... unless the flue used is particularly inefficient and it dumps a lot of heat out of that. Anyhoo, I would not think there would be a great deal of difference, if the genny is under teh same roof, and there's air mixing with the upstairs.... if it's in it's own shed, then different story.

Propane... I wouldn't like to rely on propane for anything essential... the problem is, it's a "waste" product from natural gas processing, BUT, only in relatively small quantities... ergo supply is constricted... therefore if it gets "too" popular, price will go nuts. Then also it is coupled to natural gas supply/demand issues through an amplifier as it were... if NG goes expensive or in short supply, propane gets even more so, if NG goes supercheap then barring profiteering propane may go cheaper. The caveat with that, is when NG goes real cheap because they can't sell it, but also it doesn't create demand, i.e. it's a mild spring, gas fired power stations don't come online to run everyone's AC...but everyone is BBQing... then there's not the throughput of NG at the wellheads to make the propane, so it goes spendy... If at all possible, I'd go for LNG...

reply to AndrewG2

reply to Bob
No. Electricity is very inefficient. It's only 100% efficient at the point of use. Generating electricity and getting it where it needs to be is where the losses occur. It usually ends up being about 40-60% efficient. Normally more towards 50% since we get most of our power from coal.
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If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.

Thank you for the clarification.

reply to Bob

reply to pandora

Generator Ef···.xls.zip 2,103 bytes Effenciency Comparison

reply to Bob

My natural gas bill (heat and hot water only) has been as high as $438; that was in February 2009. Even last winter, it hit $344. But my place is double the size of yours.