Topic 'Re: Need some plumbers opinions.' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:34:51 EDT

scross posted :

Because it's much more profitable to charge the same for less. I could get flat rate water service if my need was much higher (the break-even point would be around 15,000gal/mo). Unless we are talking about a big city where water supply barely meets the demand, it's all BS. I have a reservoir about 1000ft away, I have never seen it not to be overflowing.

Actually, I do live in a major metropolitan area (tri-state, in fact, with multiple utility jurisdictions), so not only is there significant demand, there are also ongoing disputes about which jurisdictions have the rights to use how much of the water at whatever rates. And, having run the numbers, I believe that all of these utilities have determined that we might start running out of our very pure, "fossil" water sooner rather than later, meaning that they might have to invest in major upgrades in order to continue providing clean water at the rates they do now, so they are being very forward-looking here. Which is a good thing!

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:21:18 EDT

scross posted :

said by iknow:

that's "low flow" per head. i came across info on something similar, and all the heads could be operated at once!., that was a selling point they made.

IIRC, my low flow heads are 1.5 gpm, and AFAIK are required in this area, even though currently there is plenty of water to go around. I'm used to this flow rate now, but as I said, that one in Chicago was really nice!

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 20:12:04 EDT

kherr posted : Hell, Kohler has at least 2 shower heads that are rated at almost 10gpm. Using my 3 sprays is 7.5gpm. Unless your in an area that needs to conserve water, you can use as much as your willing to pay. Some of the lowflo w/c needs to be flushed multiple times .... where's any savings vs. older ones ... I've seen custom shower installs where they needed 1" mains directly from the w/h and main shutoff ....

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 18:00:57 EDT

rbnice1 posted : Well the builder is taking care of it so its a moot point.

As to the water usage comments...... I sure hope it uses all at the same time if I want. I want total water immersion sometimes. Our water comes from the Mississippi, Missouri, and Meramec. Waste water is treated then returned to the river. Im not sure how my water usage really effects any of that. I would see if we lived in West Texas or Arizona or something.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:52:26 EDT

cowboyro posted :

said by scross:

I live on top of one of the best and largest aquifer systems in the world, plus next to the Mississippi River and several smaller rivers, so water here is abundant and cheap. Yet we are constantly reminded not to waste it, and they bend over backwards to protect the aquifers

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:32:11 EDT

iknow posted :

said by scross:

A closer look at the specs shows 2.5 gpm for EACH large head, and 1.75 gpm for EACH small head. So that's potentially 12 gpm with everything running at full blast. Not exactly "low flow", now is it?

that's "low flow" per head. i came across info on something similar, and all the heads could be operated at once!., that was a selling point they made.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:16:51 EDT

Bob posted :

said by cowboyro:

Even a 30min shower would take far less water than what is needed for 1 day of lawn irrigation.

But what if you stripped off your clothes and took a shower under your lawn sprinklers? :)

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:10:45 EDT

scross posted :

said by alkizmo:

Scross, the shower heads probably can't all work at the same time.
A bit like a typical shower and the bathtub faucet, it's one or the other, not both.

There are four separate controls for six heads, so some are shared, obviously, but I don't know that they are flow-limited or switched. I haven't seen an operations manual for it yet, though, so I may be wrong.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:07:04 EDT

scross posted : A closer look at the specs shows 2.5 gpm for EACH large head, and 1.75 gpm for EACH small head. So that's potentially 12 gpm with everything running at full blast. Not exactly "low flow", now is it?

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 12:01:43 EDT

scross posted :

said by cowboyro:

One word: WANT.
Not all people need to save water. In many places water is too cheap and too abundant to worry. Even a 30min shower would take far less water than what is needed for 1 day of lawn irrigation.

One word: MARKETING. And another word: SUCKER! Despite what the warranty says, I suspect that there may never be a day where this thing DOESN'T leak from somewhere.

I live on top of one of the best and largest aquifer systems in the world, plus next to the Mississippi River and several smaller rivers, so water here is abundant and cheap. Yet we are constantly reminded not to waste it, and they bend over backwards to protect the aquifers - to the point of stopping you if you try to build the wrong type of facility at a geographic point where contamination would be easy. So we all try to be good citizens about this.

On the other hand, I was in Chicago last year (near the lakefront) and my hotel's shower put out so much water that it nearly knocked me off my feet. And I'm not gonna lie about it - it felt good, man, it felt good!

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:25:49 EDT

themagicone posted : I wouldn't mind having that myself... Personally I'd like the entire ceiling to be a shower head but that gets expensive.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:22:47 EDT

cowboyro posted :

said by scross:

Not to rain on your parade or anything, but in a world of low-flow shower heads and minimal water-use toilets and such (water conservation in general), how does one really justify putting in a system like this?

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 11:17:29 EDT

cowboyro posted : I did more complex plumbing and it didn't take me 6 hrs - and I'm not a plumber.
Someone experienced should do it in less than 2hrs.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Fri, 21 Sep 2012 00:37:21 EDT

alkizmo posted : Scross, the shower heads probably can't all work at the same time.
A bit like a typical shower and the bathtub faucet, it's one or the other, not both.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:54:25 EDT

robbin posted : Specs say 2.5 gpm

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 23:46:52 EDT

scross posted : Not to rain on your parade or anything, but in a world of low-flow shower heads and minimal water-use toilets and such (water conservation in general), how does one really justify putting in a system like this? If you take really quick showers, or if you are handicapped or something, then maybe I can see it; otherwise, not so much. I'm a bit surprised that they are even allowed to sell these, except maybe under special circumstances.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:54:47 EDT

robbin posted : Personally I don't see 6 hours if it is all on one wall as in the link provided. However if the plumber has never installed one then there is learning time like reading the instructions, etc. I can easily see 3 or 4 hours though. I don't think you have any options if you want such a setup.

That is a whole lot of penetrations in the wall. Personally I would be concerned.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 22:36:24 EDT

voiplover posted : So the builder is saying that the plumber needs an additional 6 hours labor to install that shower.
Since you have a concern with this, why not call moem and ask the how much more time that shower should take to install compared to their basic unit. I bet it will be close.
Good luck with your new house.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:48:19 EDT

TA63 posted : Wow, I clicked the link, that is a ton of hardware!
--
The talented hawk speaks French.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:41:56 EDT

tp0d posted : 6 hours isnt too far off, seeing as the shower valve you have there has about 5x the piping of a typical shower valve+shower head. Also 5x the fittings and copper pipe, which you didnt state he asked for more material cost. Then theres another 20-30 mins of messin with trim and handles once the tile guys are done, and calibrating the temperature controls with a digital gauge..

so, thats not so far off. you want extras, you pay for extras.. 6 hours in a new house build of 200-500k is peanuts. Do it once, do it right.

(and yes i am a plumber)

-j
--
if it aint broke, tweak it!!
currently on FiOS (kick aZZ!)

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:39:21 EDT

garys_2k posted : It all depends on what your contract says. If it was in the plans that constitute the construction documents as bid, then it's their dime. How was it "they worded it"? That makes all the difference.

But yeah, six hours is a stretch.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:28:55 EDT

rbnice1 posted : Yes it actually included the install of this specific fixture so I shouldn't owe anything for this. But the way they worded it I may end up screwed anyways. I just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts were for time. I thought 6 hours was insane, but maybe im wrong.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:07:21 EDT

kherr posted : Just installed something similar in mine. I didn't watch the time because I was constantly digging for my plumbing tools( I've been out of work for awhile), It must have been 3 or 4 hours total but 3 sprays instead of 4 and I had the framing so that everything fell into one stud space..

One trick a guy I used to work for, when a customer had any changes to fixtures or placement, he would treat the whole order separately and not subtract what was normally included. So in essence the customer was charged twice for the given installation. One reason when a customer asked a billing question I always referred them to the builder or the boss. Not my idea on how to run a business ... He raked in a lot when customers supplied their own fixtures, he would only guaranty installation and referred them to their supplier/manufacturer if the fixture was faulty. A lot of people thought they were saving money by supplying a fixture from HD, when 1) they had an inferior valve( plastic parts), and 2) they were still charged for what we normally supply(all metal parts and probably was cheaper to buy the good stuff at the supply house than the junk at HD).

Buyer be where ..........

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:04:51 EDT

Pacrat posted : The shower "system" was spec'd and included in the original agreement??? Or was it just spec'd as "a" shower? It's a hard lesson, but it's customary for any change from the original specs to cost additonal monies. That's how many companies, not just building contractors, make a lot of their money!

What you're requesting is certainly no simple showerhead installation.
--
Keep your eye on the ball, your shoulder to the wheel, your nose to the grindstone, and your ear to the ground. Now, try to work in that position!!!

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:43:51 EDT

Hellrazor posted : Open stud wall, new construction install? 6 hours? Maybe for a 1st year apprentice.

The pissed off guy should be the one installing the cement board and tile...

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:25:19 EDT

alkizmo posted : I can imagine 6 hours if the guy goes slowly (because it looks a bit confusing)

Think about it, that's 6 shower heads and 4 controls.
God knows how all those things need to interact.

Re: Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:16:57 EDT

guppy_fish posted : Sounds reasonable ... anything custom will be an add-on from the stock plans

Need some plumbers opinions.

Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:13:43 EDT

rbnice1 posted : So building a new house. The master bath is going to have a custom shower. The builder now wants us to pay for the shower install. It was supposed to be included. They also said the plumber they are using said it will be a 6 hour job.

Has anyone installed a shower system? This is the one we are wanting installed:

Moen ExactTemp� transfer vertical spa
»www.moen.com/moen/chrome-exactte···%3ATS275

I wouldn't have thought it would take a plumber more then 2 hours to install this. Remember this is a new house. There is no drywall up yet.