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Mrs B

@rogers.com

[Extreme Plus] Intermittent Internet Access w/DPC3825 + Other Ro

My husband and I moved to Newfoundland from the States a few months ago. Both gamers, we upgraded the account to the "ultimate" service for both speed and monthly use. This, of course, meant we were given the dreaded DPC3825.

Initial setup was okay. It functions as well as can be expected for a rental unit, but the wireless strength is crap. To remedy this, we plugged a router into one of the ports, and simply allowed the modem to continue as the DHCP server. With this solution, however, we soon discovered that we were unable to support more than 7 devices on the network -- adding an 8th required disconnection or dropping of one of the devices already connected. My best guess is that the router was acting as a funnel, and eventually became a choke point.

To remedy this, we put the 3825 into bridged mode, and plugged the router in, setting it up properly as a router. This worked, allowing us to connect all of our devices at once. The catch was that I started to see "limited access" issues intermittently for my wireless connection on my desktop -- usually when doing heavy surfing, watching vids, or playing World of Warcraft.

After a week or so of getting disconnected in mid-instance, we exchanged the D-Link router for a Western Digital. The intermittent connection issues have continued, however: I remain connected to the wifi, but have "limited access" -- i.e. no internet connection.

Continuing troubleshooting, I've changed the channel, prioritized the packet scheduling on the router, and replaced the network card in my desktop, upgrading from a G to an N. The issue still remains, and I'm running out of options here. Router logs and observation seems to indicate that the issues arise when the encryption handshake goes out to all devices on the network. From my perspective, given that we've now tried two different routers from two different manufacturers and still have this problem, it seems like it's either the Rogers POS not playing well with the other kids, or something wrong with my computer.

For now, I've now taken the WD router out of the loop, re-enabling wifi the 3825 to see if the problem is solved. Anyone else having issues with the DPC3825 interfacing with another router? Any additional suggestions/solutions?

Thanks,
Mrs. B



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

Re: [Extreme Plus] Intermittent Internet Access w/DPC3825 + Othe

said by Mrs B :

Router logs and observation seems to indicate that the issues arise when the encryption handshake goes out to all devices

please provide more details on which devices are using the encryption handshake and for what type of application;

Also describe how many devices [maximum] would be using your network concurrently and the kind of activities ... Bit torrent, streaming whatever, VoIP on how many phones, how many concurrent gaming sessions, etc.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


Mrs B

@rogers.com

please provide more details on which devices are using the encryption handshake and for what type of application;

Also describe how many devices [maximum] would be using your network concurrently and the kind of activities ... Bit torrent, streaming whatever, VoIP on how many phones, how many concurrent gaming sessions, etc.

All devices on wireless:
2 smartphones (Android)
2 tablets (Android)
1 SmartTV
2 blu-ray players
1 desktop computer
1 laptop computer

1 desktop computer (via ethernet)

The handshake is the periodic WPA/WPA2 check by the network. I can see the request, the response, and the results in the router log (or could with the D-Link and Western Digital routers). Even when all devices, including my computer, pass the security check, I can still be disconnected.

We usually have 2 gaming sessions running concurrently -- one on my PC and one on my husband's, which is connected via ethernet cable. We only occasionally stream Netflix or music over the TV or blu-ray connections, but never at the same time as we are gaming. No VoIP. Occasional use of BitTorrent, but is generally turned off. The WoW Background updater isn't even running.

Most of my disconnections this morning occurred when watching YouTube videos and checking FaceBook. I've since disconnected the 3rd party router to see if it's a problem between Rogers and the 3rd party equipment. There have been no interruptions since that change, though I've not logged into World of Warcraft as yet today.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

1 edit

My suggestion is as follows:

The DPC3825 in BRIDGE mode ... as a DOCSIS 3.0 modem it works very well. In gateway mode with all the other functions it performs very poorly under Load so BRIDGE mode is the only way to go with this CISCO product.

A wireless Router that will easily handle your network and type of traffic you describe is the Netgear R6300 .... if you decide to go with the Netgear suggestion I made please make sure to load Firmware 1.0.2.26_1.0.26

Since the Netgear is Dual Band [2.4 Ghz and 5 Ghz] wireless Router it handles g/a/N/AC protocols concurrently --- You will only be able to exploit g/a/N for now .... the AC clients become available in February of 2013 and they will only support 5 Ghz band. What is remarkable about this particular Product is the superb range it currently provides and with the firmware upgrade I made you'll get much more stability under heavy loads. I have 2 of these units in service and my clients --- who have very similar devices [30 mix] and traffic usages to yours [most are N 3 stream clients, some are 2 stream N clients] -- are delighted with the results.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business



Mrs B

@rogers.com

said by mozerd:

My suggestion is as follows:

The DPC3825 in BRIDGE mode ... as a DOCSIS 3.0 modem it works very well. In gateway mode with all the other functions it performs very poorly under Load so BRIDGE mode is the only way to go with this CISCO product.

I actually had it in bridge mode until this afternoon, with a Western Digital N600 router in the mix. I was still getting the connection drops with it, and with its predecessor, a high-end D-Link router (apologies, but I can't remember the model). At this point, I'm unable to return the WD. My concern is that I'll go and throw more money at this problem, and it'll end up being not the router, but Rogers' service -- especially since, using 2 different routers from 2 different manufacturers, the problem is repeatable.


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

My experience with DLink wireless gear is poor. I have no experience with WD Network products. I only recommend stuff that I have experience with.

Good luck with your issues.



elitefx

join:2011-02-14
London, ON
kudos:2

2 edits
reply to Mrs B

said by Mrs B :

I actually had it in bridge mode until .........

I don't have mozerd's technical experience and expertise but is it possible that everytime you add a wireless device you're reducing signal strength from the router to the other wireless devices? I mean Rogers must only allow so much signal strength to each household and unless you can find a way to boost yours, with 8 devices, you must be running your signal supply bone dry, so to speak.

Maybe the DPC3825 has a limit as to how much signal it will allow a wireless 3rd party router to consume......

Just a thought from reading your 1st post........


mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

3 edits

Rogers only have control of the cable modem signals .... They have no control over the wireless aspect of the DPC3825 or any other aspect of the other functions in gateway mode. And yes in gateway mode Rogers can play with the configuration if the client requests that they do so due to client ignorance.

Wireless is a shared medium so yes the more clients that join a wireless network the less bandwidth is available for each user on that wireless network all depending on the activity and the rate of concurrency. When the rate of concurrency is limited and the activity is not intensive the wireless network will not choke with a reasonable number of hosts. However in today's world the mix of wireless hosts [like the OP articulated] is unparalleled so congestion builds very quickly --- so MANY wireless routers choke rapidly due to poor CPU utilization and firmware that's very suspect. b/g/a wireless is half duplex, most N [not all] are full duplex so when b/g/a/N are all in the mix most wireless routers become unreliable insofar as wireless hosts are concerned. Many other factors are involved.

Some wireless routers like the Netgear R6300 or the Asus RT-AC66U are built for this new mix of wireless hosts [and traffic loads] exploding on the scene plus they have the capacity to handle a high rate of concurrency ..... These new breed of wireless routers have a unique attribute that is a game changer in that they no longer share the medium with compliant N/AC clients --- for wireless hosts the wireless network trafic is managed very much like a switch manages wired traffic for wired hosts ..... this new attribute is called Multi-User MIMO ---- Yes the new breed of wireless routers do cost more but well worth it if one wants a good to excellent wireless experience.

»802.11 AC Video explanation

--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


bbeattie

join:2012-11-12
Guelph, ON

Our current Cisco 2 in 1 modem/router from Rogers cuts out frequently with 6 people using it...even Rogers store tells me it doesn't work consistently for multiple users. Do the new 802.11ac routers need a special modem? I was going to bridge the Cisco to use as a modem only...will the new AC routers work OK with this setup?



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

1 edit

The Netgear R6300 ... a superb AC wireless router .... will work with either the Hitron or the CISCO D3 cable modems. Either of the cable modems will need to be put in BRIDGE mode and if you do not feel comfortable Configuring them in bridge mode Rogers will be happy to do it for you.


bbeattie

join:2012-11-12
Guelph, ON

...but will a Netgear R6300 or Asus RT-AC66U show performance improvements without an 802.11ac bridge and 802.11ac computers, etc in the system?



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

1 edit

I currently would stay away from the ASUS RT-AC66U - some configurations work quite well and if you are interested in which configuration look here for the configuration I specify.

And Yes, the Netgear R6300 does show performance improvements without an 802.11ac bridge and 802.11ac computers, etc in the system -- however if you have legacy b wireless devices I would drop those as b wireless devices will have a negative impact on everyones performance.
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business


bbeattie

join:2012-11-12
Guelph, ON

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a legacy b wireless device? Do you mean it's 802.11b?

...and as far as using a Netgear R6300 with a Hitron bridged as a modem only, will the Netgear automatically be in a mode as an N router @ 2.4GHz?

Thanks for your patience with a rookie in these matters!



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

1 edit

said by bbeattie:

but what is a legacy b wireless device? Do you mean it's 802.11b?

...and as far as using a Netgear R6300 with a Hitron bridged as a modem only, will the Netgear automatically be in a mode as an N router @ 2.4GHz?

Yes, 802.11b is a legacy frequency.
The Netgear R6300 will be in DUAL BAND mode automatically.

What is Dual Band Wireless Networking?
--
David Mozer
IT-Expert on Call
Information Technology for Home and Business

bbeattie

join:2012-11-12
Guelph, ON

Tried the Rogers Hitron 2 in 1 as a last ditch effort, knowing it probably wouldn't be any better, and it isn't...still getting dropouts.

Going for an 801.11ac for sure now. Mozerd, you like the Netgear R6300...do you have an opinion yet on the Linksys EA6500 which just came out with great reviews?



mozerd
Light Will Pierce The Darkness
Premium,MVM
join:2004-04-23
Nepean, ON

1 edit

said by bbeattie:

do you have an opinion yet on the Linksys EA6500 which just came out with great reviews?

I've had no experience with the EA6500.

»Suggested Listening...