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TheHox

join:2012-05-31

UBNT AirMax - What does what?

So I am just learning this stuff, I have been around it for a while, I have used a lot of the UniFi stuff for warehouses etc, but we are branching out into some of the AirMax type work.

Looking that the product lineup, I'm getting confused looking at it all, what does what?

Rocket M, Bullet M, Nanostations, ProwerBridge, AirGrid, etc.

Looking to setup 1 POP to feed about 500 hundred customers. +/- 100

Half of which have clear LOS, the others are behind trees, so I see using 900mhz, but I hear the UBNT 900 doesn't work well with the GPS issues.

What would one recommend to use for APs and customer SMs. Keeping in mind that we would like to have some higher bandwidth packages, 3mb, 5mb, 8mb, 10mb?

Thanks for the help.



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

1 pop, 500 customers, 10 meg plans.

Won't be easy !!
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


TheHox

join:2012-05-31

2 edits
reply to TheHox

Well 500 customers is a rough estimate of total customers within the first year or two? The area we are going into has around 1300 homes within a 5 mile radius.

Only 1 physical tower is needed to reach each home, but maybe breaking out other towers is needed to load balance the APs?
We do have another tower we can use, but it is almost too close. Like 1 mile away from our main 200ft tower.

What is better? Have them all on 1 tower? Or use 2+ towers and play with GPS timing and freq tuning/shielding.

What have others done out there? Or does nobody offer speeds that fast?

Fill a tower with 3 2.4 APs, 3 3ghz, and 3 5ghz APs, and maybe 1 900?

And we will offer 10MB plans, not to say many customers would opt for them, as it will be pricey, but I would like to have the option, if at all possible.


wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to TheHox

If you have the funding I would look towards a Canopy system. At least their GPS works and with Canopy Advantage even the old gear will do 10/4


rconaway8

join:2005-11-10
Phoenix, AZ

This is a tough issues. Your NLOS right now is the biggest issue. In that case, I would consider Canopy WiMax for that assuming you are in this for the long term. Depending on what you charge, you are committing to an ROI of at least 3 years or more.

Personally, I would look at using the towers for 1/2 the deployment and a secondary strategy for the NLOS clients. This will cut your ROI by 12-24 months.

Both options are feasible depending on your funding level and future competitive environment.



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to TheHox

500 on one tower isnt impossible.

UBNT has the DFS band certifications now, opens up a lot of possibility for customers within 1-2kmeters, Few of those radios for real close up, 5.8ghz band for anything LOS, there is 100mhz of space there to use, then 2.4ghz for nLOS, then move to 900mhz for NLOS, but you did mention that half cant see the tower, 2.4ghz might get some of that, maybe drop your money on the wimax for that as rconaway8 suggests? Yeap depending on your business model the ROI is considerable.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5

Or you could say ROI is a considerable long way off.


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to TheHox

Even if only 25% of your homes had LOS to the tower, I would imagine that 900mhz and 2.4 ghz are both going to be pretty well trashed. In my area, most towns are only a hundred homes, with maybe 10% of those having LOS to the tower, and 900 mhz interference is a constant battle. 2.4 ghz is even starting to get hard to use with everyone and their grandma having wi-fi in their homes.



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to WHT

said by WHT:

Or you could say ROI is a considerable long way off.

Yea thats what I meant lol
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

OregonWISP

join:2011-01-09
Enterprise, OR
reply to TheHox

You will have trouble getting very many 900 mhz customers at 10 mbps speeds. 5.8 is what you want to use for your line of site customers. Ubiquiti sectors with RFArmour shield kits. Using the second tower is a good idea, there are a couple of 5.8 ghz bands that are low power only and at close range they can be a great way to gain access to a little extra spectrum. Also, 2.4 ghz can deal with some minor occlusion, especially at close range. If you are registered with the FCC you could use 3.65 for your point to point connections. I would only use it for distribution as a last resort, its expensive.


SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4

3 edits
reply to TheHox

If your primary tower is tall enough you could probably stack 5 gig sectorized radios with 25 feet vertical separation. With shield kits you could do 3 sectors at each elevation and maybe have 3 sets of them for a total of 9 radios. That would be in addition to however much 2.4 and 900 meg gear you could stuff up there.

I have two nanobridges on one tower with only 7 feet of vertical separation, both facing the same direction. With them at each extreme end of the high power frequency spectrum they see each other with about -40 (no sheild kits) which does not cause any problem. This is a dual link ptp and the RX from the distant end is -64. I can max out the 100 Mbps LAN connection with either link. These links have been running continuously since about a week after the nanobridges came on the market. I run the TX power at 18 dBm, not Full Power. Kudos to WHT for saving me the effort of looking up the maximum legal frequency spread. That thread is buried back in this forum.


WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5
reply to TheHox

said by TheHox:

but I hear the UBNT 900 doesn't work well with the GPS issues.

Considering that UBNT has abandoned GPS for 2,400 and 900 MHz gear, it wold be more correct to say it doesn't work, period.

I'm not adverse to using two or even all three bands as Rory mentions. Load out the majority of subscribers on 5.8, the marginal LOS subs on 2.4, and the really bad LOS on 900 (with a disclaimer of a much less speed expectation).

pnolan

join:2004-05-19
Jackson, WY

Also consider pricing structures based on availability of competition. Where cable exists, have a lower price to compete. If you can have towers where your only competition is WildBlue /MB service. Consider having a higher pricing tier for "remote area pricing"



superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA

1 recommendation

reply to TheHox

Just a quick thought. While all of the advice given so far is very good, you need to get an SA (spectrum analyzer) and sweep this location before you buy a single radio. Don't just check one time and walk away. In a location like this when you are betting everything on one tower, you need to sweep and record the airwaves for at least a week to make sure that the spectrum you plan on using isn't trashed.

Once you have the radios, their value drops tremendously from the original price, even IF they are brand new in the box. More than one new WISP went broke buying gear that didn't work for them. Good luck.
--
»www.wavecrazy.net


thewisperer
Premium
join:2008-01-16
reply to wirelessdog

said by wirelessdog:

If you have the funding I would look towards a Canopy system. At least their GPS works and with Canopy Advantage even the old gear will do 10/4

I find it funny to read that when in previous thread I see that a long time Moto user like Semaphore (pretty experienced) has his up for sale in the for sale thread.

Maybe the spectrum got trashed where he is with hydro meters.
Had I been able to afford the cost of the cpe, I would have used Moto also: ten years ago...

TheHox

join:2012-05-31
reply to TheHox

Yea spectrum isn't the greatest around here. There is a WISP that has some canopy 900APs up, but the tower barely breaks the tree line, so most users have poor connections anyway. Its over loaded, speeds/pings are horrible especially during peak times.

Out of the households in the area, I probably have about 45% that have clear LOS to tower 1. If I include tower 2, can bump that up to 55%. Still leaves a lot of people in the dark, but isn't too much that can be done besides running some fiber, or some rigged type of mesh network to cover these neighborhoods that are in a thick wooded valley.

As of now I am trying to finalize the deal on the tower and to see how flexible they are as far as how many devices can go on it, and their vertical spread.


wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to thewisperer

said by thewisperer:

said by wirelessdog:

If you have the funding I would look towards a Canopy system. At least their GPS works and with Canopy Advantage even the old gear will do 10/4

I find it funny to read that when in previous thread I see that a long time Moto user like Semaphore (pretty experienced) has his up for sale in the for sale thread.

Maybe the spectrum got trashed where he is with hydro meters.
Had I been able to afford the cost of the cpe, I would have used Moto also: ten years ago...

You obviously aren't aware what is going on with Semaphore and why the gear is for sale.

There is only one reason to use UBNT - its cheap. If you have the money it should be the last gear you look at.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to TheHox

said by TheHox:

so most users have poor connections anyway. Its over loaded, speeds/pings are horrible especially during peak times.

Out of the households in the area, I probably have about 45% that have clear LOS to tower 1. If I include tower 2, can bump that up to 55%.

First, you can't remove the idiot element from the the equation. Any idiot can take perfectly good gear and make it work incorrectly.

Second, you're in trouble with remaining 45%. Maybe you will have luck with UBNT 900mhz gear - personally I doubt it.