Topic 'Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"' in forum 'OptimumOnline' - dslreports.com

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 11:04:49 EDT

bensonr2 posted : His implication was that the wiring was less then ideal and he was surprised I lasted this long without issues. He said my run was 330 feet.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:41:01 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted : i would assume the feeder in the basement is appropriate for the size of the building.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Thu, 27 Sep 2012 10:34:52 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Ok last and hopefully final update.

The tech I spoke with on the phone yesterday afternoon was here this morning to see me.

He checked again and determined the cable card was properly binded.

He zeroed in on the signal problem pretty quick. There was a short wire from the recently installed amp that had shorted out.

He replaced that but I got worried for a second as the signal Tivo was getting was still problematic. Luckily this time it was just a loose wire to the back of the Tivo (in trying to move a few things to try and fix it myself, last time I must not have reconnected it properly).

Signal level seems fine now, with the amp installed.

I inquired about why I need an amp and why the signal is so low. He said he can tell the run to my point of entry is extremely long and my building complex is known to be problematic.

He said he would go through the line and check it out.

I live in a fairly large garden apt complex and he said my line originates all the way from the front office.

He said he agreed they really need to change the whole line out but they need cooperation from rental office. As it was he said they gave him a hard time getting him access to the box in the basement. He said he was only able to get in because when he followed the line himself he saw it was just in the laundry room which is unlocked anyway.

In any case he said he would look into installing a new line. Obviously the implication was that that would be a process. But anyway with the amp properly installed and the cable card binded everything seems to be working fine.

Thanks guys for all the advice it was much appreciated. Hopefully this thread provides useful information to anyone with similar problems.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 22:18:10 EDT

andrewc2 posted : Next thing you know you'll be writing a book, and someone will start making a movie!

Just curious is the line amplifier some where you can take it off? Perhaps that's fouled up?

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 20:01:44 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Haha, I am happy to provide a little entertainment :)

I am interested to see what happens next myself.

My signal quality seems to be slowly deteriorating. I have a suspicion this is going to turn into a whole ordeal. They are going to need to replace the line to my apartment and rebalance the tap node whatever you call it.

So I'm picturing at least a couple more service calls.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 18:54:37 EDT

andrewc2 posted : Can I just say while it is quite unfortunate that you're having to go through all these issues, I quite enjoy this thread, it's almost like a little technical fairy tale :P What will happen next dun dun dunnnn.....

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 17:04:28 EDT

bensonr2 posted : So I got an email from the guy at cablevision I had been talking to asking if I was home.

Then about ten minutes later before I could respond I got a call from another tech telling me Ed had asked him to call me.

I told him I was not at home but I could check on the Tivo box remotely.

He just responded that he would see me tomorrow morning for an appointment in person. That we would need to replace the card as there was a problem with all the cards in the 302 lot.

After he hung up with me I decided to pull up the Tivo remotely through my sling. It was on the cable card pair and binding screen.

I hit "clear" then went to test a few channels. Unfortunately my signal issues seem to continue to grow as more and more channels simply give the signal strength message.

I started going through the premiums to see if I would trigger the card pair and binding screen. But the channels just gave the signal strength message.

Until I got to a couple of the extended Showtime channels. I got at least two premium channels to tune in (though both were plagued with digital breakup).

I emailed back Ed telling him what happened. And he said that they tried something this afternoon and the card must be properly paired and binded now.

So it "appears" the card may be properly binded now. That my problems are just signal strength. Though it is disconcerting my signal strength issues seemed basically solved on Monday but since then continue to grow worse by the hour.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:58:19 EDT

bensonr2 posted : I started going through the channel list. 1/3 to half the channels are either not coming in or have such low signal quality they are almost unwatchable.

This is as bad or worse as when I still had the original splitter installed.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 26 Sep 2012 00:04:30 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Latest update:

Another member advised me to try reaching out to Wilt Hildenbrand from Cablevision, senior adviser engineering and technology.

I wrote him an email detailing the problems I have been experiencing this past Monday. He responded back pretty quick that he would have my problem looked into. Shortly after I received an email from a cablevision tech asking for the info on my CC.

I sent it off to him later in the evening.

This morning I received a reply from him saying they tried something and to check my cable. I checked but nothing changed. He simply said he would get back to me again. I haven't heard anything.

Tonight I noticed additional problems with a few channels.

As I said before I am tuning most non premium and non extended stuff. So I watched a recording of Sons of Anarchy without incident.

But I tried to record Vegas on CBS HD. It failed to record. When I checked 702 I received the Tivo message "no signal on this channel". I checked NBC HD, 704. That channel came in but it was almost unwatchable with all the digital breakup. I went into the diagnostic menu and checked the signal level. Said it was 29 with an SNR of 27db. I understand that to be very low.

I checked a couple other channels and they seem to be normal with a signal strength in the high 70's. And the strange thing is I had tried CBS HD and NBC HD as recently as this past Sunday and this signal quality on those channels seemed fine.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Tue, 25 Sep 2012 08:32:57 EDT

RickNY posted : nm

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Tue, 25 Sep 2012 08:14:44 EDT

frdrizzt posted : For what it's worth, this issue with the 302 cards in your area has been escalated within Cablevision. Definitely sounds like the field tech did good work & escalated properly instead of just saying "I'll be back when I have a chance", which is good to hear.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 13:45:07 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Yeah looking back it seems that way.

The problem was I had to wait a full week before receiving an appointment. Since I could exchange equipment immediately it seemed like a good idea at the time. Especially since the original cable card I self installed two years ago was smooth and painless. Guess I really lucked out that time.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 12:40:16 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted : it would have been better to have pursued the signal issue to its full extent prior to exchanging the CC. (because as you can see, its a PITA to play "registration" games with CV)
but now you and everyone else that sees this thread will know this.
sorry youre going through tons of difficulty though.
i would however, keep the CC connected and powered on in the event it does receive authorization from CV through time.
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 10:32:22 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Latest update:

Just had my visit from the tech.

Installed the amp but still can't get the cable card binded.

The signal was definitely boosted. I checked the diagnostic menu and there is a noticeable increase.

But the main problem of not being able to get the cable card properly activated persists.

The tech mentioned that there is a problem with all the "302" cards. Unfortunately at his office they only have "302" cards. But before he left he had them do something with the card (I forgot what exactly he said) and had them verify it was working.

But this new card was even more problem. After he plugged it in and opened the cable card installer menu in Tivo, Tivo simply gave the message "your cable provider has not provided any information about this card".

We then put back in my last card since at least that gave the host id and was tuning the non premium channels.

The tech spent a half an hour on the phone with a service rep trying to activate one of the cards. The tech he spoke with kept telling him the same thing I was told that card was "not registered" in there system"

The tech set up an appointment to come back again Thursday. He told me that they are aware of a problem with cable cards right now. That their "might" be some sort of update that goes out and the cards suddenly start working for hundreds of customers.

I like the tech that they have been sending. He is very friendly and seems knowledgeable enough about certain subjects. But I get the impression he knows next to nothing about how the cable cards actually work. And the service reps on the phone you get when you call to activate literally know nothing.

The one he spoke to simply said she talked to her supverisor who said its not registered.

I feel like at this point they should know I've been calling to resolve issues for almost two weeks, and have had two service points. My issues should have been escalated to some sort of network engineer who has a clear technical knowledge of cable cards.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 24 Sep 2012 00:33:56 EDT

bensonr2 posted : It very well could be a bad line from the pole. My line (and a couple other customers) just dangles along side the outside wall of the building.

Hell one customers line partially goes across another's window. Does not give confidence in the quality of the original wiring.

As for card "not being registered in the system" I argued the first time they told me that with a representative. I kept pointing out the tivo gives pages of diagnostic and address info on the card. Surely whatever information "is not registered" can be entered in manually if it comes to it.

I kept demanding to talk to someone else even threatened to cancel and they wouldn't budge.

I did post in the direct forum and received a response. I was simply told the direct forum was just for internet issues. I was given a phone number and told to ask for an advanced service rep.

But the number they gave me was just the same main number that connects you to a standard customer service rep after going through the whole menu.

And I'm pretty sure when I say cable card the CSR's are already connecting me to an ASR.

I got a private message from a Tivo tech in the Tivo forum to call them and setup a 3 way call. If I still have problems after the amp is installed I'll probably do that.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:10:09 EDT

anon posted : The card has to be put into the right corp or table ,usually they have to call a higher dept that can do this. Or you can swap the card again and hope its done right. You should post this in opt direct forum.

Thats stupid the tech didnt call to have this done . I doubt its that low at tap also , maybe bad line from pole?

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 23 Sep 2012 16:15:24 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Tuning adapter is only needed for extended premium channels such as HBO comedy, Starz 2, Showtime Extreme whatever, foreign language channels and few sports subscriptions packages.

I don't have it hooked up because its a piece of crap and not worth the aggravation for a few channels I never watch.

And regardless I am stuck on the activation screen which has nothing to do with the tuning adapter. In fact I believe according to their instructions you should not hook up the adapter until after you have the cable card paired and binded.

But actually speaking of the tuning adapter I had heard there was an amp in the TA and that might bring up the signal level a bit.

As an experiment I hooked up the coaxial through the TA and checked my signal level on a couple channels before and after through the Tivo diagnostic.

I had actually had a noticeable signal level drop with it connected through the TA.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 23 Sep 2012 15:45:53 EDT

frdrizzt posted : If it's just premium channels, they're likely using SDV in your area, and you need a tuning adapter to get them at the moment. At a quick glance I do not see that mentioned. Do you have one hooked up?

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:24:26 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Quick update, issues still aren't resolved.

Tech said he didn't have an amp available Thursday. Rescheduled for Sunday (today). Received a call this morning that my tech wasn't available and they would like to reschedule for Monday morning.

I'm getting most of my channels and they seem fine. Just when Tivo tries to tune a premium channel or one that is part of the extended lineup it kicks me to the activation screen.

I tried calling again to see if they could now bind the cable card. But I got the response again "that cable card is not registered in our system".

I'm starting to worry this band aid solution of installing an amp on my line won't solve anything. And that if it was this much pain to get a tech to come out here with an amp that if they have to change out the line from tap that could take even longer.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 19 Sep 2012 18:55:48 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted : yes

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:49:39 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Unfortunately I already agree to have an amp installed. The implication was a new tap install would take longer to setup.

And I want to make sure I can watch NFL and HBO as soon as possible.

When they return tomorrow should I also ask that they install a new tap at another time?

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:23:52 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted : i would have them change the tap out.
an amplifier will work but its a "band aid" to the ultimate problem

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:13:50 EDT

bensonr2 posted : I had a visit from a tech today. He said the problem right away was low signal. He didn't attempt to activate the cable card, though I didn't give him a hard time since he was very friendly and really seemed to want to be helpful.

He said the source of the signal loss was at the tap.

He told me he could install an amp at the point of entry. That my signal was low but the quality of the signal was high.

He explained the other option was to have a couple more guys come out to change the line. And it would involve getting into other people's apartments. Obviously he was trying to steer me away from that.

Unfortunately he did not have an amp in the truck. He was very apologetic and explained they have been running out of them all week.

He scheduled an appointment to come back the next morning (assuming he is able get an amp tomorrow).

I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:10:08 EDT

bensonr2 posted : No STB box. Only have one TV (well an additional TV in the kitchen that splits the hdmi output of the tivo) and one cable card device.

There is only one cable line for the TV. It comes straight through the bedroom wall routed through the closet to the living room (this is a 1 bedroom apt).

There is a splitter in the entry point from outside. This splits it into two lines one for the cable modem and one for the Tivo.

Even if I could get the Tivo and the TV setup by the entry point from outside in the bedroom the splitter and cable from outside is permanently stapled to the inside wall of the closet.

I could undo all of that but I hesitate to since it was put in place by the original installer and also would be a pain to put back together.

Just an update though.

After letting the cable card sit for 2 hours while I was out I came back and again all channels seem to be tuning save the premium ones.

I have been cycling through all the basic cable channels and they all seem to come in fine.

But when I tune into HBO I get the not authorized message from Tivo then the cable card text screen comes up telling me to call to bind the host id.

In addition in the Tivo forum they were curious what my RS corrected and uncorrected values were.

For all channels both values seem to be zero... except Velocity HD 727. That shows a high value of RS corrected and a much lower value of RS corrected. I scanned through a few other channels and that is the only one so far I can find with a value other then zero.

Velocity HD was the same channel last week I had a recording with artifacting. Though despite the value I am seeing today the picture looks rock steady.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:06:14 EDT

rtbond posted : Do you have a Cablevision STB that you can use as a level meter?

Did you try to re-locate the TiVO at a point closer to the service entrance to see if the problem cleared? (i.e., reducing the loss seen by the TiVO)

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:52:31 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Quick update, problems continue to get worse.

Last night as I stated previously they claimed they could not bind the cablecard because it was "not registered in their system". The card did update the decoder firmware so that was an improvement. And it did seem like it was tuning into the broadcast and basic cable channels even though they claimed it was not registered so they could not bind it.

They told me to either wait for my appointment or I could try picking up another card. Another card should not have the same problem this current one did.

I picked up another card today. Again it showed that the firmware needed to update. But it successfully updated then gave me the screen with the CC id and host id.

I called to have it binded. This time they claimed it "won't bind" must be a problem with my cable.

I believe my signal may be less then ideal at this point so I will give her that.

But I'm skeptical so I pressed her to talk to someone directly involved in the setup and deployment of these devices.

She claimed there was no one I could talk to. I started to get heated and brought up a full refund for this month, demanding an appointment today, cancelling etc.

Got me nowhere.

Please help :(

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:39:42 EDT

rtbond posted :

said by TheWiseGuy:

I believe it is MPEG4 on the system I am on at this moment, Blue Ridge Cable, I had to download a MPEG4 update for windows media center from X-Box live to decode the Movies here.

MPEG-4 has several flavors. MPEG-4 Part 10 is in fact H.264/AVC. I tend to use H.264/AVC because there is also a older MPEG-4 encoding specification (i.e., Part-2) and this avoids any ambiguity.

Next year you will begin to see H.265/HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding), which promises to reduce bit rates by half relative to H.264 (which cut bit rates by half relative to MPEG-2).

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:23:38 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted :

said by TheWiseGuy:

said by rtbond:

Just a language issue. The container is always an MPEG2 Transport Stream, but the program stream (within the container) may be encoded as MPEG-2 or a H.264/AVC (e.g., the Optimum App video transported over DOCSIS is H.264 encoded video).

I believe it is MPEG4 on the system I am on at this moment, Blue Ridge Cable, I had to download a MPEG4 update for windows media center from X-Box live to decode the Movies here.

for cablevisions optimum app for laptop:
video = AVC1, audio = AACL (low delay AAC), captions = DFXP
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:20:23 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted :

said by rtbond:

true but the standard for final QAM transmission has been MPEG2 to maintain compatibility.
it would be nice though if H.264/AAC was used as a transport method for the QAM video/audio content, this would logically open more QAM slots within a 6Mhz bandwidth which would mean much more digital tv channels.
this would be possible with cable company supplied boxes that have the ability to decode H.264/AAC but would ultimately leave clear QAM out of the picture for those without boxes.
then the other issue is the cable company having to purchase new rack equipment to transport the content encoded as H.264/AAC as well as customer end boxes.
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:16:16 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted :

said by rtbond:

I believe it is MPEG4 on the system I am on at this moment, Blue Ridge Cable, I had to download a MPEG4 update for windows media center from X-Box live to decode the Movies here.
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:06:20 EDT

rtbond posted : Just a language issue. The container is always an MPEG2 Transport Stream, but the program stream (within the container) may be encoded as MPEG-2 or a H.264/AVC (e.g., the Optimum App video transported over DOCSIS is H.264 encoded video).

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:48:46 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted :

said by rtbond:

A consumer electronics CableCARD tuner has no intrinsic need for DOCSIS functionality. Yes it needs a QAM demodulator to receive the video program streams, but that does not equate to a DOCSIS cable modem function, which has more functionality that a simple QAM receiver.

interesting to note that whether it is video, audio or data, the transport format is encoded in MPEG2.
if there is no baseline privacy/encryption, its quite easy to obtain the contents of the transport stream if you have the knowledge and devices necessary, the difficult part is separating each stream ID.
its very similar to an ASI stream except its heavily compressed and converted for RF transport.
this is proven concept on my modified WinTV tuner, im able to tune to a specific cable modem downstream frequency and "save" the data as RAW output and view it in an editor. (the results are quite surprising)
the old Sony cable boxes were (and still are) very easy to 'tap' into the docsis 1.0 walled garden intranet (internet possible with CV proxy).
the PCB etched layout connection simply needed the female RJ45 socket attached and then soldered to the PCB, :D.
theres nothing special about it other than multicast data (almost like a broadcast storm), the speed is 6MbitDL/1MbitUL
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 10:36:24 EDT

rtbond posted : A consumer electronics CableCARD tuner has no intrinsic need for DOCSIS functionality. Yes it needs a QAM demodulator to receive the video program streams, but that does not equate to a DOCSIS cable modem function, which has more functionality than a simple QAM receiver.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:32:17 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted : Doesn't the tuner have to already have a cable modem since all the channels are sent via QAM/Docsis and the only way to receive the channels would be if the tuners have a cable modem already?
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:25:45 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted : 2012 reference guide if you are interested.

2012 BRG FIN···-res.pdf

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:18:57 EDT

rtbond posted : My speculation is based on the fact that DSG communications require a Cable Modem function in the "tuner" (Host). If you are building a 1-way tuner (i.e., a FCC UDCP product) why go to the expense of having a DOCSIS Cable Modem function in the device.

You are correct in stating the CableCARDs are in fact 2-way capable and it is the hosts (i.e., consumer electronics devices) that are restricting the operation to 1-way.

Thanks for the dialog.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 09:08:00 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted : The Cablecards are actually 2 way. The tuners are 1 way. I am guessing also but adding Davic is a major investment and major complication. I am very far out of my knowledge base on this but I suspect that the cablecard can handle the upstream OOB via Docsis. The devices(tuners) do not communicate upstream at all. This is why you need an SDV tuner to get the SDV channels.
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 08:31:57 EDT

rtbond posted : Thanks for your clarification on 4250HD FDC diagnostic information. That makes sense.

I stand corrected on the OCAP FDC. The CableCARD 2.0 specific also allows a DSG (DOCSIS) communication channel, in addition to a DAVIC (SCTE 55-2). So, CableCARD devices could also be DOCSIS based.

Given that all CableCARD-based consumer electronic devices connected to the Cablevision network are one-way devices (i.e., FCC Unidirectional Digital Cable Product (UDCP) or "Digital Cable-ready Receiver"), I believe (from a practical perspective) this forces the use of the DAVIC-based OOB and not the DSG (DOCSIS). I say this because the CableCARD 2.0 spec states that hosts (consumer electronics devices) implementing DSG (DOCSIS) are two-way hosts. My understanding is that the only 2-way CableCARD-based consumer electronics devices on the market are Tru2Way devices, which is not supported by Cablevision.

My CableCARD device operates in the 70-130 MHz ranged specified for DAVIC-based OOB communications.

Any way, just informed speculation.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 08:22:45 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted :

said by rtbond:

You are right the SA 4250HD boxes do not list FDC statistics and I am not sure why because it certainly uses a FDC, it is just not the OCAP FDC.

The Samsung SMT-C5320 boxes do provide FDC diagnostic data. On my system the non-OCAP FDC is at 603 MHz for these boxes. Both signal level and CNR are provided. I believe the SMT-C5320 has DOCSIS Settop gateway (DSG) functionality, allowing it to communicate with the network via DOCSIS.

The OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver (OCUR) specification states the OCUR FDC is located in the 70 MHz to 130 MHz range, so I think CableCARD devices received network communications in a QPSK channel in this range. The proprietary (i.e., non-OCAP) systems from Cisco, Samsung, Motorola , etc use a different FDC.

if you can grab a picture, i dont have a samsung box, i am curious to see what the FDC stats are for that box since the 4250HD im using doesnt use FDC.
the samsung box may have FDC enabled but not actively using it since it does have a CC slot built in.
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:31:21 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted : I was replying to your statement that the 4250 does not list FDC statistics. I believe it does under the Docsis info but I am not near my box at this time. I believe it also a column for Davic FDC but since it does not use that functionality it does not list those statistics. I could be incorrect since I am simply going off recollection. I do not believe the cablecard tuners also would be using Davic versus Docsis since I doubt CV set up a Davic system for the tuners
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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 07:22:47 EDT

rtbond posted : Thanks for the pointer to the IP Multicast paper.

Just to clarify, the DOCSIS FDC approach only applies to Cablevision STB communications and not to CableCARD (OCAP) consumer electronics devices, the original focus of this thread.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 06:56:17 EDT

TheWiseGuy posted : Cablevision uses only Docsis OOB, has for a long time. For a somewhat recent article co-authored by Joe Godas of CV see

»www.cisco.com/en/US/technologies···ce2.html

Cablevision currently uses IP multicast to drive the conditional access (CA) and system information (SI) carousels to their set top boxes (STBs). Their first advanced STB had a single out-of-band tuner which acted as both as an interactive and out-of-band (OOB) management interface. Cablevision originally supported DOCSIS and Digital Audio Visual Council (DAVIC) delivery mechanisms, but quickly adopted a DOCSIS-only approach once multicast robustness was demonstrated. Cablevision's newer STBs use DOCSIS to carry vital SI streams. Both CA and SI will be carried over into any DSG deployments that Cablevision evolves to in the future.

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Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Mon, 17 Sep 2012 05:59:51 EDT

rtbond posted : You are right the SA 4250HD boxes do not list FDC statistics and I am not sure why because it certainly uses a FDC, it is just not the OCAP FDC.

The Samsung SMT-C5320 boxes do provide FDC diagnostic data. On my system the non-OCAP FDC is at 603 MHz for these boxes. Both signal level and CNR are provided. I believe the SMT-C5320 has DOCSIS Settop gateway (DSG) functionality, allowing it to communicate with the network via DOCSIS.

The OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver (OCUR) specification states the OCUR FDC is located in the 70 MHz to 130 MHz range, so I think CableCARD devices received network communications in a QPSK channel in this range. The proprietary (i.e., non-OCAP) systems from Cisco, Samsung, Motorola , etc use a different FDC.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 20:57:46 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted :

said by rtbond:

said by IllIlIlllIll:

tivo's and other devices have to tune to QAM OCAP channel "85.9999" (center frequency 591Mhz, 6Mhz +/-) to get the "decoder firmware" and other updates.
if the device is having trouble tuning to this channel, it will get stuck on "updating".

Just curious about the "OCAP channel" you make reference to. My CableCARD device (SiliconDust HDHomerun Prime) uses 74 MHz as the out-of-band (OOB) forward data channel (FDC). I believe is the communications path used by OCAP devices, whose location is configurable by the Operator per system in the range of 70 to 130 MHz. The OCAP FDC uses QPSK, not QAM.

Is there another OCAP channel besides the FDC I mention above?

Regarding the original post, I think everyone is right in suspecting signal level issues. The stated 29 SNR is low.

--Rob

i know CV has two OCAP channels, I dont recall the other channel at this time.
is there a signal strength and SNR indicator for the FDC ?
the SA4250HD box i am using shows no frequency for the FDC & an SNR of N/A, probably because its not needed since the box is using the built in CM for updates/apps/firmware through CV's walled garden.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:15:55 EDT

bensonr2 posted : Thanks again, and I think agree. The root cause of the original problem is and was signal level.

That said the current problem seems to still be cablecard activation.

Anyone ever had similar problems with a CC install where they claimed the card was "not in their system". Anyone ever get it fixed short of a different card?

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:12:56 EDT

rtbond posted :

said by IllIlIlllIll:

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:12:32 EDT

bensonr2 posted : SNR is 29 db.

At this point my main issue is that the latest cable card I have is not "in their system".

I tried another tech and again pressed whether they could "register the cablecard in their system" manually by me reading them the various pages of information in the cablecard installer menu.

The latest tech still insisted know though seemed more sympathetic and less dismissive of the idea.

What would really help me is anyone knows any technical details of what might not be "registered" in their system so if I attempt to call back again I could press them using specific technical details.

Thanks again guys.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:52:15 EDT

anon posted : You may have good signal but low snr/mer on the main frequency. And whatever channels pixilate. Did you happen to see what snr is on tivo diagnostic. I cant recall if the tivo shows that though.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:24:03 EDT

bensonr2 posted : You guys appear to be right. It does seem like it may have been a signal issue. Removing the splitter Cablevission installed a few weeks ago got me past the firmware upgrade screen.

I got as far as the screen with the host id info this time.

However when I called to activate the rep I spoke with claimed my card's "serial number" is not in their database.

I pressed her whether I could pull any info from the Tivo diagnostic screens in order to have them "register" the card in their system. I pointed out that Tivo allows you access to the cablecard menu which gives info such as mac address and million other technical details. They claim no. Her solution is for me to wait for my appointment four days from now.

I'm making progress but still frustrated.

But thanks guys for the info. I appreciate it. I feel silly I dismissed signal quality issues so easily.

Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"

Sun, 16 Sep 2012 13:56:45 EDT

IllIlIlllIll posted : tivo's and other devices have to tune to QAM OCAP channel "85.9999" (center frequency 591Mhz, 6Mhz +/-) to get the "decoder firmware" and other updates.
if the device is having trouble tuning to this channel, it will get stuck on "updating".
if the MPEG2 video on the cable system was QAM64 instead of QAM256, poor signal issues would be tolerated better (a minimal average of 3-5dB) but picture quality would suffer slightly (less bandwidth = more compression).
i believe the OCAP channel is QAM64 since its data over MPEG2.
try connecting the device to the closest first point of cable entry and see if it then will work.
--
Suffolk County NY Police Feed - »www.scpdny.com
PS3 Gaming Feed - »www.livestream.com/elitedata

Topic 'Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck &quot;Firmware upgrade&quot;' in forum 'OptimumOnline' - dslreports.com

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Topic 'Re: Help! New CCard - Now stuck "Firmware upgrade"' in forum 'OptimumOnline' - dslreports.com

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