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JeepMatt
C'mon the U
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Comcast

2 edits

Could Comcast Be up to SDV?

I know it's been discussed in the past that Comcast had "trialed" SDV previously, but no one thought there was much of a future for it.

I know that Time Warner and Brighthouse use it very successfully (and in turn have over 200 HD channels - the most of any provider in the country). They also can add channels with the blink of an eye (see the recent NFL Network / Red Zone add).

So, since I haven't been able to get any peeps out of anyone - does anyone think Comcast is reconsidering it?

I mean, seriously - they are sitting on 15-20 open QAM's of bandwidth here in the DE/PA/NJ area (Freedom Region). Cable cos would die for that much capacity. Comcast also doesn't carry the 60-70 additional HD's that are out there today that, for example, Brighthouse has. They have no HD's for the In Demand sports packages (which in 2012 is a shock, seeing as they both offer 9 HD stations per sport now).

There has to be something in the works for all that space. If it's a proven successful method of delivery - it would be a no-brainer for Comcast to allocate say, 10 (or however many) of those QAM's for SDV and add a boatload of new HD's instantly.

It's been shown now they WON'T be using QAM's for the 305 Internet product, so that shoots down that theory. From watching CC and VZ over the years - i've never once seen so much bandwidth sitting idly. Someone is up to something - but what I do not know.

Not adding HD versions of recent adds like WFN, Goal Line, beIN, etc - when you have all this capacity at your fingertips (or not adding DIY, Cooking HD that ARE on in Center City Philly) - just makes it even more fishy...almost like they're waiting for a "new method" of delivery, so to speak.

One could guess about an IP method of delivery - but hell, Verizon's been trying that for the past 3 years without success.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5

1 recommendation

Yet, MONEY eludes your speculative reasons.

Carriage costs: it never came to mind? It is the reason NFL Network and Red Zone are being "added".

20 open QAM's, 60 HD stations to add: no SDV needed for Comcast, that fits the 3:1 deployment already used.

BTW, your numbers are off:
»www.avsforum.com/t/1058081/offic···-5-26-12
--
Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix


Os

join:2011-01-26
US
reply to JeepMatt

SDV has been unfairly cast as a terrible technology, but there's no question it helps increase capacity. And TWC/BrightHouse have largely done that with their HD counts without killing off the analog channels (although that's starting to change). Don't forget that BrightHouse has started adding the out-of-market RSN's too in HD.

I hope Comcast turns on SDV or IP delivery or something and just adds anything imaginable in HD to do it. You know they've got the contracts to do it, and I hope that the premium channels come back for the ride.

There is no reason that the industry giant should not have a lot more available than they do. TWC's lineups are better, and I don't think there's any way of being able to deny that now with NFLN and RedZone finally on board. And BrightHouse lineups are the best in the country.

It's my understanding, and someone can correct me, but that SDV can handle 6 MPEG-2 HD channels per QAM or so?


Os

join:2011-01-26
US

1 edit
reply to markofmayhem

I know everyone holds that AVSForum chart sacred, but there's tons wrong on it for Comcast.

I wouldn't consider AXS TV wide, BYU TV HD is available in UT, I've never seen Catholic TV HD on any Comcast lineup, C-SPAN HD could almost be called wide, Cooking Channel HD and DIY HD are not wide, and that doesn't even touch the premiums which are all wrong.

I trust my numbers a lot more than those ones, and I don't have a Comcast lineup anywhere with more than 111 HD channels (not counting locals or RSN's), and that's the city of Philadelphia systems.

The worst BrightHouse system of their major clusters is Michigan, and they're at 134 by my count (109 networks, 25 premiums). They're missing the Spanish HD's mainly, but also missing TV One HD. They're around 180 once you add everything together.

I think Comcast has a harder time justifying bandwidth for HD because they didn't hop on the bandwagon the way TWC did with free HD. That HD technology fee is a major obstacle to adoption by customers.



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3
reply to Os

said by Os:

SDV has been unfairly cast as a terrible technology, but there's no question it helps increase capacity. And TWC/BrightHouse have largely done that with their HD counts without killing off the analog channels (although that's starting to change). Don't forget that BrightHouse has started adding the out-of-market RSN's too in HD.

I hope Comcast turns on SDV or IP delivery or something and just adds anything imaginable in HD to do it. You know they've got the contracts to do it, and I hope that the premium channels come back for the ride.

There is no reason that the industry giant should not have a lot more available than they do. TWC's lineups are better, and I don't think there's any way of being able to deny that now with NFLN and RedZone finally on board. And BrightHouse lineups are the best in the country.

It's my understanding, and someone can correct me, but that SDV can handle 6 MPEG-2 HD channels per QAM or so?

no you can't get 6 HD channels per QAM at a time it is basically 2:1 ratio for what you had before say you had before SDV we had 48 HD channels switched to SDV on our first round of SDV and it allowed to TWC to get to a total of 100 HD channels so they gained about a 50% capacity efficiency with SDV. Then last year TWC moved 8 more QAMs to SDV and we have gotten 24 more SDV channels along with a few SD SDV channels. In total my system has 24 QAMs dedicated to SDV services.

This is just what we have gotten in the last year since TWC added 8 more SDV QAMs via SDV:
NFL Network SD (added last friday )
NFL Redzone SD (added last friday )
NFL Network HD (added last friday )
NFL Redzone HD (added last friday )
Hub HD
Fox Deportes HD
Halogen HD
IFC HD
Oxygen HD
Sportsman Channel HD
Reelz Channel HD
Ovation HD
Style HD
E! HD
Bloomberg HD
MLB Strike Zone HD
Showtime Beyond HD
Showtime Extreme HD
Showtime Women HD
Showtime Next HD
MoreMAX HD
ThrillerMAX HD
TMC Xtra HD
GAME 2 HD
PAC12 National SD
PAC12 National HD
Shop Zeal 2
Shop Zeal 3
Shop Zeal 4
Shop Zeal 5

There is two TWC systems that have hit over 100 HD channels and have 60 or so analogs and no SDV! The trade off is that they do not have digital simulcast or DOCSIS 3.0 as of yet. Those systems just added NFL Network and NFL Red Zone so they have 104 HD channels on both systems with one having a few more locals. But still 104 HD channels no SDV on a 860MHz system is amazing with analog tier almost intact.


motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3
reply to Os

said by Os:

I know everyone holds that AVSForum chart sacred, but there's tons wrong on it for Comcast.

I wouldn't consider AXS TV wide, BYU TV HD is available in UT, I've never seen Catholic TV HD on any Comcast lineup, C-SPAN HD could almost be called wide, Cooking Channel HD and DIY HD are not wide, and that doesn't even touch the premiums which are all wrong.

I trust my numbers a lot more than those ones, and I don't have a Comcast lineup anywhere with more than 111 HD channels (not counting locals or RSN's), and that's the city of Philadelphia systems.

The worst BrightHouse system of their major clusters is Michigan, and they're at 134 by my count (109 networks, 25 premiums). They're missing the Spanish HD's mainly, but also missing TV One HD. They're around 180 once you add everything together.

I think Comcast has a harder time justifying bandwidth for HD because they didn't hop on the bandwagon the way TWC did with free HD. That HD technology fee is a major obstacle to adoption by customers.

Do you count local channels in the Brighthouse michigan count? My TWC system here in the Dallas metro has the best HD lineup west of eastern seaboard/New England on TWC we have 139 HD channels and that will go up to 141 HD channels as of next monday when we get national versions of TWC Sportsnet and TWC Deportes on the sports pass We just got the NFL Network back on my system after 6 years since TWC took the system over from comcast.


motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3
reply to JeepMatt

said by JeepMatt:

I know it's been discussed in the past that Comcast had "trialed" SDV previously, but no one thought there was much of a future for it.

I know that Time Warner and Brighthouse use it very successfully (and in turn have over 200 HD channels - the most of any provider in the country). They also can add channels with the blink of an eye (see the recent NFL Network / Red Zone add).

So, since I haven't been able to get any peeps out of anyone - does anyone think Comcast is reconsidering it?

I mean, seriously - they are sitting on 15-20 open QAM's of bandwidth here in the DE/PA/NJ area (Freedom Region). Cable cos would die for that much capacity. Comcast also doesn't carry the 60-70 additional HD's that are out there today that, for example, Brighthouse has. They have no HD's for the In Demand sports packages (which in 2012 is a shock, seeing as they both offer 9 HD stations per sport now).

There has to be something in the works for all that space. If it's a proven successful method of delivery - it would be a no-brainer for Comcast to allocate say, 10 (or however many) of those QAM's for SDV and add a boatload of new HD's instantly.

It's been shown now they WON'T be using QAM's for the 305 Internet product, so that shoots down that theory. From watching CC and VZ over the years - i've never once seen so much bandwidth sitting idly. Someone is up to something - but what I do not know.

Not adding HD versions of recent adds like WFN, Goal Line, beIN, etc - when you have all this capacity at your fingertips (or not adding DIY, Cooking HD that ARE on in Center City Philly) - just makes it even more fishy...almost like they're waiting for a "new method" of delivery, so to speak.

One could guess about an IP method of delivery - but hell, Verizon's been trying that for the past 3 years without success.

I think an unofficial defacto standaridzed QAM count for SDV is 8 then 16 then 20 or 24 depending on the system. Although NYC only has I think 12 or 14 QAMs for SDV which is not normal for any TWC system which are usually 16 or 20 and some systems have 24 QAM dedicated to SDV like mine.

Os

join:2011-01-26
US
reply to motorola870

No, I'm not counting locals, RSN's, PPV or On Demand HD in that. BrightHouse has everything.

I'm not sure whether I'll count TWC SportsNet yet in my count. I've been counting YES and NESN, but not the other HD's because YES and NESN are marketing their RSN's nationally, and providing alternate programming during blacked out local sporting events.

But isn't a 2:1 ratio of what you gain in SDV, when you consider a standard MPEG-2 QAM for Comcast contains 3 HD channels effectively 6 like I said?

Also, I think it's safe to say that this much bandwidth exists throughout Comcast's systems, and maybe moreso as a lot of the areas don't have all the international SD channels Philadelphia does.



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by Os:

No, I'm not counting locals, RSN's, PPV or On Demand HD in that. BrightHouse has everything.

I'm not sure whether I'll count TWC SportsNet yet in my count. I've been counting YES and NESN, but not the other HD's because YES and NESN are marketing their RSN's nationally, and providing alternate programming during blacked out local sporting events.

But isn't a 2:1 ratio of what you gain in SDV, when you consider a standard MPEG-2 QAM for Comcast contains 3 HD channels effectively 6 like I said?

Also, I think it's safe to say that this much bandwidth exists throughout Comcast's systems, and maybe moreso as a lot of the areas don't have all the international SD channels Philadelphia does.

TWC will be marketing the LA sportsnets nationally as they are launching them across their entire footprint that has the bandwidth available to add them in areas that have SDV bandwidth or have open QAM space on the systems that not SDV enabled.

Although they will have alternate programming on during live games of the professional teams.

Os

join:2011-01-26
US

How would I go about importing an OpenOffice file in? It might be time to start sharing my databases on HD channels to show the difference between Comcast and BrightHouse.



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3
reply to Os

said by Os:

No, I'm not counting locals, RSN's, PPV or On Demand HD in that. BrightHouse has everything.

I'm not sure whether I'll count TWC SportsNet yet in my count. I've been counting YES and NESN, but not the other HD's because YES and NESN are marketing their RSN's nationally, and providing alternate programming during blacked out local sporting events.

But isn't a 2:1 ratio of what you gain in SDV, when you consider a standard MPEG-2 QAM for Comcast contains 3 HD channels effectively 6 like I said?

Also, I think it's safe to say that this much bandwidth exists throughout Comcast's systems, and maybe moreso as a lot of the areas don't have all the international SD channels Philadelphia does.

yes it is a 2:1 ratio could possibly go to 3:1 ratio if the system is designed with fewer homes passed per node. I know that around here there a ton of nodes one street probably has 10 nodes in a 1 1/2 mile length stretch of the road. Some of the nodes are spaced 3 telephone poles apart.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
reply to JeepMatt

they should have it.

Comcast is missing.

BIG TEN ALTS in HD

ESPN Goal Line HD maybe with SDV they slot into the NFL redzone HD slot

GAME HD 3-9

TEAM HD 2-9

CLTV HD???? why can slot into the CSN + HD slot that just shows looping help videos at 480i when off air.

The cut HBO, MAX, SHOW and Starz HD channels.

CN100 HD



IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to JeepMatt

Please, no more hardware on the TV with the TiVo. I have no more outlets to plug a tuning adapter into as the power strip is maxed out and the outlet on the wall is maxed out as well. If I plug another power strip or appliance into that wall socket, we'll probably be looking at a spark and flame show (as it will be overloaded).
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).



mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

I think it is time to put in a new outlet. It's just a matter of time before something happens with the overloaded outlet.



JeepMatt
C'mon the U
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Comcast
reply to JeepMatt

Also, it may look like i'm hunting a conspiracy, but I don't think it's coincidental that we haven't heard from J Jefferson in months on what's going on in the region as far as HD adds, or television for that matter.
--
"ONE team - ONE city - ONE dream!!"



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
reply to Os

said by Os:

SDV has been unfairly cast as a terrible technology, but there's no question it helps increase capacity.

This is exactly what I thought when this technology started rolling out for us here with Time Warner. I was skeptical and thought of it as only a "bandaid" fix so they could bring the system, or at least make the system appear to have a very robust channel line up. Allowing them to hobble along as long as possible.

I did have some grief with it..mainly signal levels (in the house) that were fine before, did not allow SDV to function as it should but tracking it down and correcting it, it is now smooth sailing.

So i will admit, I had the wrong expectations of the technology and can not imagine why any cable company would not use the technology at this point. I dont even know how many HD channels we have now..must be over 100 i think since there is multiple premium movie channels in HD as well.

Oh, another good thing...they have finally customized there guide software to tune to the HD equivalent channel if you happen to end up on the SD channel....good for my parents who can not seem to "get it".

Someone said they have to roll / enable this out slowly because of SDV as they have to see what sort of load it puts on the SDV system. Not all channels are enabled yet.
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JoshMatthews

@comcast.net
reply to Os

said by Os:

SDV has been unfairly cast as a terrible technology, but there's no question it helps increase capacity. And TWC/BrightHouse have largely done that with their HD counts without killing off the analog channels (although that's starting to change). Don't forget that BrightHouse has started adding the out-of-market RSN's too in HD.

I hope Comcast turns on SDV or IP delivery or something and just adds anything imaginable in HD to do it. You know they've got the contracts to do it, and I hope that the premium channels come back for the ride.

There is no reason that the industry giant should not have a lot more available than they do. TWC's lineups are better, and I don't think there's any way of being able to deny that now with NFLN and RedZone finally on board. And BrightHouse lineups are the best in the country.

It's my understanding, and someone can correct me, but that SDV can handle 6 MPEG-2 HD channels per QAM or so?

Oh give me a freaking break. No one in their right mind wants to use SDV because it causes too many problems for too many people. You don't seem to understand that customers using devices with cable cards such as TiVo and Moxi and home theater PC's, DON'T WANT TO USE AN ADDITIONAL ADAPTER to watch programming. Another problem is the timeout, causing a prompt to appear on screen telling customers to press a button on the remote to continue watching the programming. This is unsatisfactory and there is no way in hell we're going to stand for it.

Os

join:2011-01-26
US

1 edit

OK, so all 8 of you can just do without.

You do realize you're like .01% of Comcast's customers. Moxi is all but dead.

How many BrightHouse customers do you see complaining about SDV now? They've worked out the kinks. And now they're getting 3 more HD channels.

Hate it all you want, it works.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5

said by Os:

OK, so all 8 of you can just do without.

You do realize you're like .01% of Comcast's customers. Moxi is all but dead.

How many BrightHouse customers do you see complaining about SDV now? They've worked out the kinks. And now they're getting 3 more HD channels.

Hate it all you want, it works.

Oh... PLEASE show me any evidence where STB initiated SDV is the direct, indisputable cause to channel counts. Where there is NO influence of contractual carriage agreement, franchise authority, coverage overzoning, etc.

Most Comcast systems have empty capacity, if not all. I count 6 QAM's completely unused below 750 mhz in my system. What in the hell good is SDV if I have 18 HD slots unused???

SDV is used everywhere, by everyone. Comcast uses it as well. The confusion and mythology regarding this horribly misunderstood technology is laughable.
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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix

GTFan

join:2004-12-03

3 edits

Where does Comcast use SDV? It's not used in the ATL, at least not for STBs - my Tivos can get all linear channels. I haven't heard of any area where they are using it. PPV/VOD don't count, we're all talking linear channels here.

I think Comcast wants to go with IP-based delivery that doesn't use tuning adapters for 3rd party devices, not SDV as we know it for other MSOs. And that's the way it should be done for all of them, assuming they ever come up with an industry standard to auth/decrypt/deliver the content. Given that the FCC rolled over after the industry told them to pound sand about AllVid, I don't see that happening anytime soon.


Os

join:2011-01-26
US
reply to markofmayhem

Comcast doesn't use SDV. Never has.


GTFan

join:2004-12-03

I'm pretty sure he's counting OnDemand as SDV, which under a strict definition is probably true. But that's not the definition that everyone outside the cable industry uses.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
reply to JoshMatthews

said by JoshMatthews :

Another problem is the timeout, causing a prompt to appear on screen telling customers to press a button on the remote to continue watching the programming. This is unsatisfactory and there is no way in hell we're going to stand for it.

That time out issue can be annoying. TW has it set to 4 hours I think. i know some people who fall asleep with their TV on in the bedroom and they wake up to a blank screen.

SDV opens up new options and allows new features for the cable system. Id be very disappointed if they put off these positives for the couple of people who insist on dicking around with cable cards especially when there is DTA's out now that allow these to work.
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GTFan

join:2004-12-03

Our 'dicking around with cable cards' means that we can use DVRs that put your craptacular Comcast junk to shame.

They're not going anywhere, so deal with it.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

said by GTFan:

Our 'dicking around with cable cards' means that we can use DVRs that put your craptacular Comcast junk to shame.

They're not going anywhere, so deal with it.

I dont have comcast anyways, so I do not care either way in this regard. I am just a converted SDV believer that has seen its benefits.
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Os

join:2011-01-26
US
reply to GTFan

They could, depending on decisions made at the FCC. Comcast would be fine with it, I'm sure.

For the record, I think HTPC's are great, but to say they're anything but an extreme minority of customers would be dishonest. I will do it someday. And a tuning adapter is not that much of an inconvenience to increase capacity and offerings.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
reply to GTFan

said by GTFan:

Where does Comcast use SDV? It's not used in the ATL, at least not for STBs - my Tivos can get all linear channels. I haven't heard of any area where they are using it. PPV/VOD don't count, we're all talking linear channels here.

It does count, for they are linear channels if they weren't SDV!

iNDemand PPV, 'Team' (NBA, MLS, NHL, MLB), VoD, multiple-local station served areas (some as far down as the edge router).

The reason your Tivos can get "all linear channels" is becuase the D in SDV is occuring at the edge router instead of the CPE. It alleviates many heaedaches and negative reactions at the cost of less overall effeciency of the system. One huge positive is that your customers won't get "Channel available shortly" while waiting for your neighbor to switch channels IF you deploy the matrix too shallow (an issue Time Warner has had while working out the kinks which takes YEARS and requries heavy development each time a new channel is added, SDV has negatives just like everything else).
--
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telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:5
reply to Os

said by Os:

Comcast doesn't use SDV. Never has.

Well, they did have a few trial deployments of SDV back in 2010, but decided not to continue with it: »www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable and from: »www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable

Comcast has been relatively mum on SDV, though there was word that it was doing some SDV work in the Philadelphia market, which followed some earlier technical trials in areas such as Cherry Hill, N.J., and Denver.


JeepMatt
C'mon the U
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
kudos:2

"though there was word that it was doing some SDV work in the Philadelphia market"...

And, i'm talking about the Philly region now too...hmmmmm...coincidence?? I'm not writing this completely off...at least yet...


Russ6

join:2011-03-17
Houston, TX
kudos:1

2 edits

There have been no new stories about Comcast using SDV. The last story I know of about Comcast and SDV was in February of 2011 (see the links in Telcodad's post) and it said that Comcast put SDV on the back burner. I think if Comcast was planning on using SDV soon Comcast would be testing it again and there would be stories about it.

Comcast is looking at CCAP, see
»Re: why is comcast not upgrading my area?

Note: The quote in the linked post is from:
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···r_cable&