dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
4567
share rss forum feed

osravens

join:2011-01-26
Cumberland, MD
reply to markofmayhem

Re: Could Comcast Be up to SDV?

Comcast doesn't use SDV. Never has.


GTFan

join:2004-12-03

I'm pretty sure he's counting OnDemand as SDV, which under a strict definition is probably true. But that's not the definition that everyone outside the cable industry uses.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS
reply to JoshMatthews

said by JoshMatthews :

Another problem is the timeout, causing a prompt to appear on screen telling customers to press a button on the remote to continue watching the programming. This is unsatisfactory and there is no way in hell we're going to stand for it.

That time out issue can be annoying. TW has it set to 4 hours I think. i know some people who fall asleep with their TV on in the bedroom and they wake up to a blank screen.

SDV opens up new options and allows new features for the cable system. Id be very disappointed if they put off these positives for the couple of people who insist on dicking around with cable cards especially when there is DTA's out now that allow these to work.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

GTFan

join:2004-12-03

Our 'dicking around with cable cards' means that we can use DVRs that put your craptacular Comcast junk to shame.

They're not going anywhere, so deal with it.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

said by GTFan:

Our 'dicking around with cable cards' means that we can use DVRs that put your craptacular Comcast junk to shame.

They're not going anywhere, so deal with it.

I dont have comcast anyways, so I do not care either way in this regard. I am just a converted SDV believer that has seen its benefits.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

osravens

join:2011-01-26
Cumberland, MD
reply to GTFan

They could, depending on decisions made at the FCC. Comcast would be fine with it, I'm sure.

For the record, I think HTPC's are great, but to say they're anything but an extreme minority of customers would be dishonest. I will do it someday. And a tuning adapter is not that much of an inconvenience to increase capacity and offerings.



markofmayhem
Why not now?
Premium
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to GTFan

said by GTFan:

Where does Comcast use SDV? It's not used in the ATL, at least not for STBs - my Tivos can get all linear channels. I haven't heard of any area where they are using it. PPV/VOD don't count, we're all talking linear channels here.

It does count, for they are linear channels if they weren't SDV!

iNDemand PPV, 'Team' (NBA, MLS, NHL, MLB), VoD, multiple-local station served areas (some as far down as the edge router).

The reason your Tivos can get "all linear channels" is becuase the D in SDV is occuring at the edge router instead of the CPE. It alleviates many heaedaches and negative reactions at the cost of less overall effeciency of the system. One huge positive is that your customers won't get "Channel available shortly" while waiting for your neighbor to switch channels IF you deploy the matrix too shallow (an issue Time Warner has had while working out the kinks which takes YEARS and requries heavy development each time a new channel is added, SDV has negatives just like everything else).
--
Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix


telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:3
reply to osravens

said by osravens:

Comcast doesn't use SDV. Never has.

Well, they did have a few trial deployments of SDV back in 2010, but decided not to continue with it: »www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable and from: »www.lightreading.com/document.as···lr_cable

Comcast has been relatively mum on SDV, though there was word that it was doing some SDV work in the Philadelphia market, which followed some earlier technical trials in areas such as Cherry Hill, N.J., and Denver.


JeepMatt
C'mon the U
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Wilmington, DE
kudos:2

"though there was word that it was doing some SDV work in the Philadelphia market"...

And, i'm talking about the Philly region now too...hmmmmm...coincidence?? I'm not writing this completely off...at least yet...


Russ

join:2011-03-17
Houston, TX
kudos:1

2 edits

There have been no new stories about Comcast using SDV. The last story I know of about Comcast and SDV was in February of 2011 (see the links in Telcodad's post) and it said that Comcast put SDV on the back burner. I think if Comcast was planning on using SDV soon Comcast would be testing it again and there would be stories about it.

Comcast is looking at CCAP, see
»Re: why is comcast not upgrading my area?

Note: The quote in the linked post is from:
»www.lightreading.com/document.as···r_cable&



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to osravens

A great way to increase capacity and offerings is to "clean house" and do a good job at knowing what the hell their doing. Other providers simply use SDV as a crutch or quick fix to get the extra capacity and offerings without actually being efficient. Sometimes taking shortcuts isn't a good idea in the long run.



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

2 edits

said by Mike Wolf:

A great way to increase capacity and offerings is to "clean house" and do a good job at knowing what the hell their doing. Other providers simply use SDV as a crutch or quick fix to get the extra capacity and offerings without actually being efficient. Sometimes taking shortcuts isn't a good idea in the long run.

actually SDV is not a crutch or quick fix to get the extra capacity. The only reason why people are complaining with SDV is Tivo has an issue on their end with SDV tuning to recommendations and the fact that the Cisco tuning adapters have had issues. Most of the time Motorola headends actually perform better with SDV than Cisco headends not only due to the smaller size of the tuning adapter but they also don't give the fits that the Cisco tuning adapter does.

TWC is actually getting to the point where they are going to start to come off of SDV for some channels when they get HD DTAs up and running they are already starting to bring the standard tier of channels digital simulcast off of SDV to allow for DTA usage in areas that have SDV. TWC is getting ready for a huge analog removal in the Northeast on October 10th and October 17. TWC is also getting ready do the same in Kansas City KS/MO.

SDV is not that bad of a service. I had my doubts about it in 2010 when TWC was getting ready to launch it and it only takes about 1 1/2 hours to configure a hub for SDV at least that is how long it took from taking down the broadcast QAMs and turning up the Narrowcast QAMs and launching SDV in my Hub. It took a whole month to launch SDV in the DFW area as they had to turn it on hub by hub.

TWC has freed up some bandwidth by using SDV in my area:

Extra VOD QAM expansion went from 4 to 8 VOD QAMs per node.

2 extra DOCSIS channels now have 6 downstream internet channels instead of 4.

Total number of SDV QAMs:

24

Total number of HD channels sent via SDV:

121 as of tommorow including the recent adds of NFL Network and NFL Redzone in SD and HD.

Have 139 HD channels soon to be 141 HD channels with 119 HD channels sent via SDV soon to be 121 when TWC Sportnet HD (National version) and TWC Deportes HD (National Version) are added tommorow.

Also TWC actually has systems that have dropped the expanded basic tier of analogs in Los Angeles including Hollywood. These are the former comcast areas. But they have an issue they are running low on bandwidth as they have not launched:

ESPN Deportes HD
MLB Strike Zone HD

So those system are being stingy on bandwidth right now as they have had to add 6 HD channels in the last month and a half and they are 750MHz with no SDV. They have a 7th HD on the way too.

Another thing is there is no way you could fit 200 HD chanels on a 750MHz system without using SDV it is not possible as you have to carry SD Channels and have bandwidth set aside for DOCSIS and VOD. it would take 75 QAMs to carry 225 HD channels at 3 to a QAM without SDV and I don't know of any 750MHz cable system that would have 75 QAMs available after using 16 for VOD/DOCSIS and all of the SD content. Bright House in Orlando Florida is carrying 206 HD channels right now with SDV and running at 750MHz and have 3 more HD channels announced so they are getting close to 225 HD channels slowly they have most HD channels on a single cable system in probably the entire planet.


JoshMatthews

@comcast.net
reply to swintec

said by swintec:

said by JoshMatthews :

Another problem is the timeout, causing a prompt to appear on screen telling customers to press a button on the remote to continue watching the programming. This is unsatisfactory and there is no way in hell we're going to stand for it.

That time out issue can be annoying. TW has it set to 4 hours I think. i know some people who fall asleep with their TV on in the bedroom and they wake up to a blank screen.

SDV opens up new options and allows new features for the cable system. Id be very disappointed if they put off these positives for the couple of people who insist on dicking around with cable cards especially when there is DTA's out now that allow these to work.

"Dicking around" ?! What the hell are you talking about. Why the hell would anyone want to use a DTA when they could use a TiVo or home theater PC or something that they own rather then having to be forced to rent equipment from their cable provider every month If your suggesting attaching a DTA to a TiVo or home theater PC then that's just plain stupid because how do you expect a TiVo or home theater PC to change the channel on the DTA by itself when more then one program on different channels are scheduled to record, and to take it one step further how the hell do you expect to record multiple programs at one time when DTA's only have one tuner and a TiVo could have up to 4 and home theater PC's could have even more? Why does your suggestion make me think of VCR's and stepping back 15 years or so in technical achievement. One of the reasons why VCR's died out was because of the single tuner problem of having to play "Sophie's Choice" when selecting what to record and being slaves to not being able to record multiple programs at one time on one device or being forced to purchase a large amount of VCR's and run more cables to accomplish the goal. It's stupid.


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

said by JoshMatthews :

It's stupid.

I think it would be stupid to tie up major amounts of bandwidth on the cable system and deny quite a few additions of HD channels (and binded channels for data) so a few cable card users can run their HTPC. Maybe in the future there will be better options for you guys to interface with the cable system but until then I do not feel the technology (SDV) should be ignored to cater to a few people at the expense of sooo many others.

Can you imagine if we only had 20 HD channels and I called in to ask why and they told me 2 people across town have cable card devices so they are unable to add any more channels now? Please.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts


DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:12

1 recommendation

reply to JoshMatthews

said by JoshMatthews :

If your suggesting attaching a DTA to a TiVo or home theater PC then that's just plain stupid because how do you expect a TiVo or home theater PC to change the channel on the DTA by itself when more then one program on different channels are scheduled to record, and to take it one step further how the hell do you expect to record multiple programs at one time when DTA's only have one tuner and a TiVo could have up to 4 and home theater PC's could have even more?

You're getting DTA mixed up with a SDV Tuning Adapter.

A DTA (digital transport adapter) is a digital to analog tuner used on older TVs to receive basic digital channels. These can't be used to tune SDV channels as they don't have an upstream transmitter.

A Tuning Adapter just give the Tivo the ability to communicate with the cable headend and change the SDV channel. It has no video tuners in it, it does have an upstream transmitter, and it connects to the USB port on the Tivo. The Tivo has to still use it's tuners. »support.tivo.com/app/answers/det···d/100041

Sometimes the term DTA is used to describe either, since the makers have named them similarly.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

No he isn't getting DTA's mixed up with Tuning Adapters. If you look at the message he responded to, swintec said "DTA's"



DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:12

1 edit

said by swintec:

SDV opens up new options and allows new features for the cable system. Id be very disappointed if they put off these positives for the couple of people who insist on dicking around with cable cards especially when there is DTA's out now that allow these to work.

said by JoshMatthews :

If your suggesting attaching a DTA to a TiVo or home theater PC then that's just plain stupid because how do you expect a TiVo or home theater PC to change the channel on the DTA by itself when more then one program on different channels are scheduled to record...

said by Mike Wolf:

No he isn't getting DTA's mixed up with Tuning Adapters. If you look at the message he responded to, swintec said "DTA's"

Swintec said "DTA's" meaning Tuning Adapters I believe, when he referred to DTAs making CableCARDs work with SDV. JoshMatthews took DTAs to mean Digital Terminal Adapters which is the true definition but not what Swintec was referring to. Like I said earlier, some call either device by the term DTA.

Hooking a Digital Terminal Adapter to a modern Tivo with a CableCARD is stupid and nobody would suggest that. The Tivo is already much more capable than a Digital Terminal Adapter.

Hooking a Tuning Adapter to a modern Tivo with a CableCARD is how you make it work with SDV.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

Regardless you can still connect a DTA to any device, TV, VCR, TiVo, and so forth as an intermediary device at the coax input of the electronic product by setting it to Channel 3 or 4 and using the DTA's single tuner which is what Josh was referring to.



flwpwr

@comcast.net
reply to GTFan

Ondemand is not SDV, it's IPTV. The boxes get IP's and request streams from a server. SDV is where the network outside only carriers channels the local customers are watching and not channels that are not being watched freeing up bandwidth limits to what can be watched at one time versus what can be carried at one time. Those carriers are reserved to carry ondemand streams even if everyone is watching the weather channel due to a natural disaster reports.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

said by flwpwr :

Those carriers are reserved to carry ondemand streams even if everyone is watching the weather channel due to a natural disaster reports.

Why would it matter if 1 or all boxes on the node are watching an SDV stream? i have always read that SDV keeps non-watched channels at the edge until requested. if one user on your node requests a channel then it makes no difference if others tune to it since it is already being sent down.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

Russ

join:2011-03-17
Houston, TX
kudos:1

said by swintec:

said by flwpwr :

Those carriers are reserved to carry ondemand streams even if everyone is watching the weather channel due to a natural disaster reports.

Why would it matter if 1 or all boxes on the node are watching an SDV stream? i have always read that SDV keeps non-watched channels at the edge until requested. if one user on your node requests a channel then it makes no difference if others tune to it since it is already being sent down.

It doesn't matter. The information in your post is correct. The point flwpwr was trying to make is that SDV carriers can not be used as VOD carriers so even if there were a lot of free SDV carriers they couldn't be used for VOD carriers and vice versa.
--
SA 8300 HD DVRs with Patched S25 Guide
Links:
'S25 Guide Blog' 'Schedule' 'Info' 'Patch Thread'


motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by Russ:

said by swintec:

said by flwpwr :

Those carriers are reserved to carry ondemand streams even if everyone is watching the weather channel due to a natural disaster reports.

Why would it matter if 1 or all boxes on the node are watching an SDV stream? i have always read that SDV keeps non-watched channels at the edge until requested. if one user on your node requests a channel then it makes no difference if others tune to it since it is already being sent down.

It doesn't matter. The information in your post is correct. The point flwpwr was trying to make is that SDV carriers can not be used as VOD carriers so even if there were a lot of free SDV carriers they couldn't be used for VOD carriers and vice versa.

actually TWC just implemented this senario where TWC is using SDV and VOD on the same QAMs in a hub in SC a few months back according to an article I read on how the made a new type of hub site broken down into three sectors called "Pods" in advance of CCAP.

You can use VOD/SDV interchangeably due to the services being unicast and TWC is already doing it somewhat with their Startover/Lookback services that restart live programs so yeah it is possible.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
reply to swintec

who determines what channels are not watched compared to watched and who is to say that one week a channel is watched occasionally and the next week and from that point on it's watched heavily?



motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

said by Mike Wolf:

who determines what channels are not watched compared to watched and who is to say that one week a channel is watched occasionally and the next week and from that point on it's watched heavily?

I know that on my node I keep seeing the frequencies for:

Cartoon Network HD
MLB Network HD
NFL Network HD
Weather Channel HD
FNC HD
Fox Sports Southwest HD
PAC12 National HD

stay the same throughout the week they rarely change maybe once a week which is a good indicator that they are being watched 24/7 and all are SDV.

On TWC here these are the digital channels that are not SDV besides digital simulcast:

KFWD HD
KXAS HD
KDAF HD
KDFW HD
KAZD HD
KUVN HD
KDFI HD
KERA HD
KTVT HD
KTXA HD
WFAA HD
KPXD HD
KSTR HD
KXTX HD
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
TNT HD
HBO HD
SHOWTIME HD
Indemand HD PPV
Antenna TV
KERA World
WFAA 8.2 Accuweather
WFAA 8.3 Live Well
KXAS DFW Non Stop
boomerang
Cartoon network SAP
PBS Kids Sprout
mun2
tr3s
National Geographic
We
AMC
Shop NBC
GAC
Hallmark
OWN
Showtime
HBO
TMC
Starz
Cinemax
Youtoo TV
Penthouse PPV
TEN PPV
BIG 12 Football PPV
Indemand PPV1
Indemand PPV2
Fox Sports Southwest Plus
FETN (Emegency Personnel Training)
Zee Tv
TV Aisa
iGuide VOD Barkers (4 total all the same on the same frequency)
Navigator VOD barker
Navigator VOD channel 1 info on how to access VOD on tru2way boxes.
Navigator Kids on Demand VOD barker

The TWC system I am on has nothing but 6 DOCSIS QAMs and 24 SDV QAMs from 687MHz all the way to 861MHz.


DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:12
reply to Mike Wolf

said by Mike Wolf:

who determines what channels are not watched compared to watched and who is to say that one week a channel is watched occasionally and the next week and from that point on it's watched heavily?

The users on that node... but what difference does it make which channels are watched as long as they're available when tuned in to?

When the user tunes the box to the channel and it's a "switched" the box makes a request if it's not already available. The equipment in the headend turns on the channel and tells the box which QAM it's on. In a good, well run system the process is very quick and almost indistinguishable from a an unswitched system. Both the TWC and Charter systems I view every week have it and I rarely have any problems with it.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


RossMatthews

@comcast.net

I think what makes a difference is the timeout when watching an extended block of programming on one channel and not wanting to have to keep pressing something on the remote every few hours to "keep the channel alive" or even when customers can't sleep wth the tv off and the channel they watch when falling asleep is one of those SDV channels. IT'S ANNOYING

Anyway another problem is who makes that determination of which channels should and should not be SDV. Say you have a community of 10 thousand people. 40 percent of those customers watch channel block A and 60 percent watch channel block B. By these numbers channel block A would be chosen to be SDV while channel block B would be left unaffected. This pisses off the 40 percent of people who watch channel block A. PAYING CUSTOMERS



mountlaurel

@comcast.net

I sent an e-mail to comcast of Garden State,NJ asking if SDV will be coming soon to my area and instead of receiving back a No or they never heard of SDV the response came back on to how to install the adapter.
I was shocked and it's on the bottom if comcast has turned on this New technology you must check SDV channels to see if they are coming clearly.


GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to swintec

said by swintec:

said by JoshMatthews :

It's stupid.

I think it would be stupid to tie up major amounts of bandwidth on the cable system and deny quite a few additions of HD channels (and binded channels for data) so a few cable card users can run their HTPC. Maybe in the future there will be better options for you guys to interface with the cable system but until then I do not feel the technology (SDV) should be ignored to cater to a few people at the expense of sooo many others.

Can you imagine if we only had 20 HD channels and I called in to ask why and they told me 2 people across town have cable card devices so they are unable to add any more channels now? Please.

You really have no idea what you're talking about, because a) Cablecard is way more than HTPCs, the bulk of the users have Tivos, and b) SDV is ALREADY in use on other MSOs for Cablecard users with the stupid tuning adapters, so there is no problem with Comcast adopting it (if needed) in future.

Nothing you said has anything to do with whether Comcast can add more HD channels to your local system.


telcodad

join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:3
reply to swintec

said by swintec:

Oh, another good thing...they have finally customized there guide software to tune to the HD equivalent channel if you happen to end up on the SD channel....good for my parents who can not seem to "get it".

I know, some members of my family continue to watch their shows in SD on our HD sets. Instead of saying "there's an app for that," I'm constantly telling them "there's an 800 channel for that!" (our system currently has the HD channels in the 800's).

So I'm not surprised that Nielsen still finds that almost three-quarters of primetime broadcast viewing is still done in SD:

Nielsen: HD Sets in Over Three Quarters of U.S. Homes
Yet 71% of primetime broadcast viewing still done in standard definition

By George Winslow, Broadcasting & Cable - October 17, 2012
»www.broadcastingcable.com/articl···omes.php


DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:12
reply to RossMatthews

said by RossMatthews :

Anyway another problem is who makes that determination of which channels should and should not be SDV. Say you have a community of 10 thousand people. 40 percent of those customers watch channel block A and 60 percent watch channel block B. By these numbers channel block A would be chosen to be SDV while channel block B would be left unaffected. This pisses off the 40 percent of people who watch channel block A. PAYING CUSTOMERS

The SDV service groups are managed much like modem service groups, in the hundreds of users connected to a few nodes or less.

SDV done correctly look and seem the same as other dgital channels, users never know the difference. Often the installation/field techs don't even realize it unless they look into the box diagnostic pages.

If users notice and get pissed, something is wrong.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.