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Kalford
Seems To Be An Rtfm Problem.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-20
Ontario
kudos:1
reply to bitchtorn

Re: Technical challange!

Any self-respecting computer geek should have a ditchwitch in their computer repair kit. Put it to good use and then drop in new conduit and lines.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Kalford:

Any self-respecting computer geek should have a ditchwitch in their computer repair kit. Put it to good use and then drop in new conduit and lines.

I used to think I was pretty good at the computer geek thing but I have no fucking clue what a ditchwitch is...


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by nitzguy:

4 wires eh?.....who knew...I thought you always needed a minimum 8....I'd say that the connectivity you'd get out of a 4 wire phone line, even if its a short distance, will be pretty crappy....interference from anywhere could mess with it....then you get errors, and errors are bad ...

Um, 100Mbit Ethernet has always used just four wires - the green and the orange pairs, with the brown and blue being either completely unused or used for voice. It wasn't until Gigabit that all four pairs were used.

If the run is less than 100m and the wire running underneath is at least Category 3 which was common for phone lines, he could do 10Mbit Ethernet just fine. If it's Cat5 he could do 100. If it's more than 100m or it's less than Cat3 for the wiring he'd need one of those VDSL or network extender solutions.

Pardon my ignorance...what are the other 4 wires for and if that was the case, why the hell did my instructor make me crip 500 wires one afternoon as we were doing runs for a classroom?

Had I known I wouldn't have done the others, and saved myself a hella lot of frustration in the process lol. (This was in 1999 when Gigabit was just pie in the sky, we were just happy to have a 100mbit switch...but had mostly 10mbit switches).

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to bitchtorn
said by bitchtorn:

So, here it is.

We have a outdoor pavilion at one of my work locations that is about 50 meters away from the main "Branch".

Get a directional drilling crew in to 'torpedo' a 3/4" or 1" PEX pipe as a conduit under the parking lot. Pex pipe can be had in 300' rolls @ 3/4" diameter. Or you can get a 2" HDPE pipe if you want to stuff al lot of cables in it. Either way, they can get it installed in less than a day without disrupting traffic on the surface. If you get bids, the whole exercise should come in under $2k.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

said by Kalford:

Any self-respecting computer geek should have a ditchwitch in their computer repair kit. Put it to good use and then drop in new conduit and lines.

I used to think I was pretty good at the computer geek thing but I have no fucking clue what a ditchwitch is...

this
»www.ditchwitch.com/


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
It looks exactly like an iPhone!


CheckFire
Premium
join:2004-01-01
Abbotsford, BC
Reviews:
·Vonage
reply to bitchtorn
I have never don it , but a number a years ago I read something about
using 2 dsl modems and an old or no longer used phone line.

As it was so long ago I can't remember much more other that it worked
and speeds were good.

If nothing else its something to look into.


Kalford
Seems To Be An Rtfm Problem.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-20
Ontario
kudos:1
reply to MaynardKrebs
More specifically. . .this

»www.ditchwitch.com/trenchless/di···/JT4020/

no computer repair kit should be without.


bitchtorn

join:2006-10-11
Peterborough, ON
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Get a directional drilling crew in to 'torpedo' a 3/4" or 1" PEX pipe as a conduit under the parking lot. Pex pipe can be had in 300' rolls @ 3/4" diameter. Or you can get a 2" HDPE pipe if you want to stuff al lot of cables in it. Either way, they can get it installed in less than a day without disrupting traffic on the surface. If you get bids, the whole exercise should come in under $2k.

Its funny you say that. A couple years back we had fiber installed at one of our locations and Aecon tried to torpedo it across our parking lot. It was suppose to be a 1 day job/2 man crew. It took 3 days, double the crew a backhoe with a jack hammer + a ripped up parking lot. Apparently torpedoing only works really well when you don't have large chunks of concrete buried.

That bill was not 2k ... but the distance is about the same.

Unfortunately we do not own this building which really limits our options as far as contracting that type of work out.


bitchtorn

join:2006-10-11
Peterborough, ON
reply to Kalford
said by Kalford:

More specifically. . .this

»www.ditchwitch.com/trenchless/di···/JT4020/

no computer repair kit should be without.

Its funny you brought that up.... years ago I was helping a friend get caught up on some work. He was a first year electrical apprentice & we used a machine very similar to that.

Apparently first year guys get to spend a lot of time digg'n ditch's and bending pipe.


Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver

1 edit
reply to bitchtorn
You could try this: »hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/0···pointers



Alternately why not just get an ISP connection and VPN back to the main office?


LazMan
Premium
join:2003-03-26
canada
reply to bitchtorn
said by bitchtorn:

Its funny you brought that up.... years ago I was helping a friend get caught up on some work. He was a first year electrical apprentice & we used a machine very similar to that.

Apparently first year guys get to spend a lot of time digg'n ditch's and bending pipe.

First year kids bending pipe? No way! They are good for getting coffee and carrying heavy stuff. Maybe digging ditches, if they are in the advanced program...

OP - have you had a contractor come and try to blow out or rod the duct? How did you determine it was crushed or plugged? Can get a LOT of work done for a grand - and locating/fixing broken ducts isn't a big deal...

Failing that - or if it's not in the budget - then I'd skip trying to go native Ethernet, and go straight to a line driver/xDSL type setup, myself. Trying to do 5-10 meg over that sort of distance should be a peice of cake; espically with two pairs to work with.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to nitzguy
said by nitzguy:

Pardon my ignorance...what are the other 4 wires for and if that was the case, why the hell did my instructor make me crip 500 wires one afternoon as we were doing runs for a classroom?

So that when Gigabit came out these cables you made ten years prior would still work!

In all seriousness though, the extra four weren't used for 10 or 100Mbit Ethernet. On a single Cat5 drop the extra two pairs would be used for voice, meaning a data line and two telephone lines. When Gigabit came out all four pairs ended up being used, which caused headaches in buildings which used the extra two pairs for voice.

I made plenty of lazy four wire Ethernet cables in the same timeframe your instructor was wrapping your knuckles and all of mine worked just fine - at least until Gigabit came out


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to bitchtorn
Floating through the Google I managed to find various VDSL2 extension kits in the $200 range, probably from the US. That's probably the best you're going to be able to do.

»www.versatek.com/index.php/produ···kit.html

In similar circumstances, this is what I would do. Like I said though, my only concerned is that is could cause bundle interference with the DSL line that's already running through the other wires.

Shame you didn't have some coax running through, MoCA would most likely work and end up being a lot cheaper.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to nitzguy
I've always been horrible at making cables. To this day I refuse to make them, (extremely long runs, I let someone else crimp on the ends).


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by elwoodblues:

I've always been horrible at making cables. To this day I refuse to make them, (extremely long runs, I let someone else crimp on the ends).

I can make them blindfolded with one hand tied behind my back.

Well, maybe not blindfolded, but I'm serious when I say one hand tied behind my back.

Do I enjoy it though? Not really, haha. Coax is so much easier.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
Not my skill set, I know it's not hard, but i just don't have that finesse...

I worked for this one company where the owners husband wanted to make the cables. I had a 50% failure rate. I finally convinced the Office Manager that with the OT they were paying me, it was cheaper to just buy the damn things.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to Gone
install overhead wire with a hydro pole and run to your location if underground is not an option
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

I've always been horrible at making cables. To this day I refuse to make them, (extremely long runs, I let someone else crimp on the ends).

I was like that in the early 90's, stubbornly against crimping network ends because I just couldn't do one. Then I think around 1994 I was at a site which didn't have it's fancy patch blocks available so I had to temporarily crimp around 1,000 ends and after the first 50, like Gone, I can do it with ease and it's like riding a bike... I haven

Like Gone though, I still don't like doing it.


bitchtorn

join:2006-10-11
Peterborough, ON
reply to LazMan
said by LazMan:

OP - have you had a contractor come and try to blow out or rod the duct? How did you determine it was crushed or plugged? Can get a LOT of work done for a grand - and locating/fixing broken ducts isn't a big deal...

Failing that - or if it's not in the budget - then I'd skip trying to go native Ethernet, and go straight to a line driver/xDSL type setup, myself. Trying to do 5-10 meg over that sort of distance should be a piece of cake; espically with two pairs to work with.

We have a pull string in the hole that will not move a inch..... we also tried running a super long fish through... hits a brick wall about 30 meters in......

We have not tried blowing it out yet, we would have to contract it out and the building owners are very picky about who they have work on the property.

As a last resort we may have to get the pipe fixed if the 4 wire connection or the DSL lan bridge does not suffice.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Do you remember what type of cable you ran through? If it's at least Cat3 you're going to save yourself a lot of aggravation and money.


bitchtorn

join:2006-10-11
Peterborough, ON
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

said by elwoodblues:

I've always been horrible at making cables. To this day I refuse to make them, (extremely long runs, I let someone else crimp on the ends).

I was like that in the early 90's, stubbornly against crimping network ends because I just couldn't do one. Then I think around 1994 I was at a site which didn't have it's fancy patch blocks available so I had to temporarily crimp around 1,000 ends and after the first 50, like Gone, I can do it with ease and it's like riding a bike... I haven

Like Gone though, I still don't like doing it.

If you cant make your own cables, you will sooner or later make the "networking closet hall of messyness fame".

We try to always cut our cables to length. The job always looks neat and professional when we are done.

With that being said. I have walked into plenty of patch rooms where 6 foot patch cords are used for a 2 foot patch.

After the first couple it looks like a spaghetti explosion.



bitchtorn

join:2006-10-11
Peterborough, ON
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

Do you remember what type of cable you ran through? If it's at least Cat3 you're going to save yourself a lot of aggravation and money.

I will check it out tomorrow when I am on site. All I remember was it was a 6 wire cable. Almost looked like underground phone cable. Last time I was there it was dark and hard to see anything.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
If it's six wire cable it most likely won't be Ethernet grade. Knowing me, I'd still try it before I spent $225 on a LAN bridge, though.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to bitchtorn
said by bitchtorn:

If you cant make your own cables, you will sooner or later make the "networking closet hall of messyness fame".

... which is exactly what I did here at our store last night when I was "cleaning up" the wiring room, because I didn't want to cut and crimp cables to length.

Wire tires are a wonderful thing


Brano
I hate Vogons
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-25
Burlington, ON
kudos:11
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Fibe
reply to bitchtorn
said by bitchtorn:

said by Gone:

Do you remember what type of cable you ran through? If it's at least Cat3 you're going to save yourself a lot of aggravation and money.

I will check it out tomorrow when I am on site. All I remember was it was a 6 wire cable. Almost looked like underground phone cable. Last time I was there it was dark and hard to see anything.

As I mentioned - test it.
I've had luck with 100Mbps over some ~50m using old phone wiring (not even CAT3) without any issues. But your mileage may (and will) vary ...worth trying though IMO. You can always get the VDSL extenders or get a shovel
Just make sure you don't connect the ends to some 'green' power saving switches that will try to reduce power on those ports.


bitchtorn

join:2006-10-11
Peterborough, ON
It will hopefully be going to a Procurve 1810G switch.

What do you recommend to test? Bring a notebook that has a intel nic and run the cable diagnostics? Or should I be looking for a new tool to purchase. Or cable tester consists of 8 lights



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Crimp both ends, hook up either ends to your network and see if they all talk to each other?


bitchtorn

join:2006-10-11
Peterborough, ON
said by Gone:

Crimp both ends, hook up either ends to your network and see if they all talk to each other?

That is my first test



Brano
I hate Vogons
Premium,MVM
join:2002-06-25
Burlington, ON
kudos:11
Yeah, I did the same. Then I've ran some transfers a and was watching error statistics on the interfaces on each side (in my case zero errors full 100Mbps). Also if the NIC has 'cable tester' functionality do that too.